http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/off-...rse-words.html

Im assuming you mean you have a degree in wildlife biology and can point to a study or data that proves certain areas do not hold any big deer.

oh really? how can you possibly say, w/ any certainty, that there are no 140 class deer in any given area? you base this all on how many spikes you see??? you expect me to believe you know for a fact that hunters are killing every single buck in exsistance there, before they reach maturity ?? a bit silly dont you think? how can you possibly prove youve seen every deer, and know for a fact what ISNT there??? again, just cause you dont kill or see a 140 doesnt mean there not there. I doubt your area is any worse than mine, and I know there are big bucks around cause Ive found their sheds, caught em on trail cams ,and even blew a few chances to kill em.

duely noted, I will take that into consideration when assessing your expertise on wildlife genetics and behavior.

Im pretty sure someone has killed a 140"+ buck in your region of NY, however Im pretty sure no one has killed a bigfoot, so I dont think the comparison is anything short of ludicrous.

dont know how a education or "straight up biology" degree, qualifies one to speak w/ such certainty about how big the local bucks can get? as far as experience goes, Im not exactly a novice hunter myself so sorry, I just dont buy the ''cant possibly kill a big one cause they just dont exsist here'' theory , its been proven wrong every time someone tries to tell me an area holds no big bucks. if you want to kill a spike have at it, I surely would in the right situation but I dont kid myself into thinking thats the best there is out there.

oh and just for the record you didnt type BS as you claim, you spelled it and even typed it to skirt around the editing. naughty, naughty

you clearly said "they dont live to get that big" and you could hunt for 365days and have no chance at killing a 140" buck, sounds pretty absolute to me. how did I take you out of context? sounds like a series of excuses than actually scientific research. that maybe true but just because chances are better somewhere else, doesnt mean its impossible to kill a big buck where you live, its just harder, which was my origonal point you jumped all over w/ that potty language.

no thanks huckleberry, a bit on the nerdy side for my taste, no offense

sorry, your methods do not sound very conclusive to me and Im sure there are hunters in western NY or even Illinois that have experienced the same as you, but they would also be wrong in assuming bigger deer do not exists in the areas they hunt. wow, now were raising the bar to B&C standards? I thought a 140 was out of the question, now you potentially may have record book deer running around? see, your you genetics are improving already! even I wasnt prepared to take it that far, but hey thanks for making my point for me. seriously if your gonna go from saying there is little chance of killing anything bigger than a spike cause they "just dont live to get big" and just a few posts later your suggesting the standard of difficuly is a 140" or better then suggesting B&C bucks exist where you hunt, then surly you can admit that w/ a little hard work, alot of hours in the stand, and some good old fashion luck, a hunter has at least a chance at 100-125" anywhere in the state which is a far cry from the spike and forks you say only exist in certain parts of the state, right?

nitpicking huh? thats usually what people say when you use their own words to prove them wrong. I guess in your world theres nothing in between a spike and a 140" .I guess I imagined killing all those deer that fall in between your peculiar extremes.

this has to be the biggest thread hijack in the history of the internet LOL

uh I think were pretty much teet for tat so spare me the sanctimony.
sorry i guess i misunderstood when you said "i could hunt 365 days out of my local stand and Im never going to kill a 140" deer, they dont live to get that big" I thought you actually meant just that silly me for taking you literally. I guess I just dont understand real hunting "language beyond the concrete"

I also went back and read your original post, I see you shot your "hard earned buck" at 10:30am on opening day, gee I can see how you could conclude no bigs bucks live in your area when you hold out for a whole 3.5 hours this has got to be the easiest debate ive ever participated in, despite my lack of the almighty bachelor degree.

I guess I should chime in because I grew up hunting Otsego and Montgomery counties..basically from 1990 to the present. In late 2002, I moved to Chautauqua.

Here's my take, none of which is in response to any earlier post by anyone...

There are big bucks in all areas of this state and hunting pressure is relatively the same. But, there is no comparison between the density of mature bucks we have in the west versus the east. And there are 2 reasons...cover and soil quality. There is much more cover in the west. There really isn't even a comparison. Now, there are very thick areas out east. But it's a patchwork. In the west, it's more consistent.

This leads to older deer. Period. I equate it to this...if you push a woods in the east, you might put out a 2.5 year old buck, but odds are it will be a yearling buck. In the west, the same push might put out a 3.5 year old, but odds are it will be a 2.5 or 1.5.

There is good active agriculture in all areas of the state. I'm not a soil specialist, but generally the soils get better as you go west i believe. Cover is the biggest factor in my eyes though.

You can take a good buck every year in the east if you do your homework year round. IT's much harder though. My buddy archery killed a 135 8pointer in otsego county in 1995. IT's still top 2 or 3 all time according to NYSBBC. That's hands down a deer of a lifetime there. A deer falls like that every year here however. I got a 125 1/8 in montgomery county in 2002 that is still top 5 for achery i believe. A deer likee that out west won't even come close to charting in the top 100. The NYBBC record book clearly indicates that some counties are better than others.

In my opinion, you could sit for years in a stand out east looking for a 140 and not find him. That doesn't mean there's not one there. It just means that the odds are lower than in other areas. There might be one there every dozen years or something, where as here it might be every 5.

This is just my opinion...but i've spent considerable time all over the state. I lived and hunted in Syracuse for 7 years as well. These are my observations.

In closing, I have to mention that my dad was in town Thanksgiving morning when i got my buck. When he met up with me in the timber, the first thing i said was 'dad, it was really hard moving away from you and mom, but I'm sooo happy I get to hunt here now'

No i dont think im better or hunt harder than anyone here, and Im surly not above killing a small buck, im just a bit more optomistic that bigger ones are out there ...everywhere. Sorry to hear about your dry spell though, Im glad you got your buck, seriously congrats, no sour grapes eh?

Muzzypower, i agree w/ most of your post, but even though the west may be more consistent in producing big deer, I believe it is patchy all across the lower half of the state. suburban areas like westchester, rockland, and orange countys are producing some real slobs and so do the suburbs around bingamton, elmira, and cortland etc. I dont think its so much E vs W, I have to imagine these areas exist all over the state. I believe anyone in any area of the state can find a big buck honey hole close to their home if they learn to adapt their hunting style to their surroundings. I also think 140" deer is realistically raising the bar a bit high for most of us, there out there but they die hard. IMO a 90-120" 3.5 YO is very attainable though across the state , ive taken 5 in the past 3 years that fall in that catagory and consider them all trophies. I also had encounters w/ honest 130" bucks in the past few years and found some good sheds too. like you said, it may not be easy but its possible, so when someone tells me where i hunt there are no big bucks, I know better. I dont imagine it being any different anywhere else deer live on this planet.