You cant expect more hunters who arent successful to do this that or the other and suddenly become successful with the current herd size. Especially when the herd is only so large and there is only so much room for harvest. If the goal is stabilization, we simply cannot sustain more pressure on that resource because the herd would continue to be reduced, even though thats not the goal.... And thats ALREADY occurring according to annual reports, even without all the unsuccessful hunters all of a sudden becoming super hunters as you think should be the case.

There has never been enough deer for everyone to be successful. Just because the herd was mismanaged for too long and some unskilled folks like you got used to easy hunting doesnt mean we should keep repeating the old mistakes. You've made several references to paying to hunt and even seem to have some photos from your visits to those kind of places. Maybe you should just go back there.

Whatsa matter? No hunting this year? Someone steal your wallet?

"There has never been enough deer for everyone to be successful."

Noone said or implied everyone. You insinuated if everyone did what they needed to etc etc. that they could. Thats not true. But its also true with a larger herd, more people would be successful.

" Just because the herd was mismanaged for too long and some unskilled folks like you got used to easy hunting doesnt mean we should keep repeating the old mistakes."

And it doesnt mean we shouldve overcompensated. There is VERY few who support the bio-extreme agenda. Noone gives a rats arse about having 75 instead of 5 trillium per square acre. But more than a few care about a billion dollar industry that 900,000 take part in yet is given ZERO consideration by management.

Only others who believe hunters should be NO consideration in management is the antihunters. They state outrage at "hunting" being a consideration in management decisions. I can show links to that exact sentiment if necessary. Pgc seems to agree. Maybe its no coincidence the pgc legislative liason went "hand in hand" with hsus spokeswoman to discuss issues with legislators recently.

The farmers and the timber companies have the tools they need to control the herd on their property. But, you are the one suggesting hunters that aren't happy should buy land and manage it at higher densities even if it has a negative effect on adjoining properties.

So your solution is that are group of six hunters should move from an area with excellent habitat to a new area with poorer habitat and infringe on the hunting area of other hunters. That makes no sense and shows you don't understand the problem in the least. But, you support a plan that you admit you don't understand and bash your fellow hunters who don't have it as good as you.

If you're putting 6 hunters on 27 acres, you are getting exactly the hunting you deserve.

I'm not bashing my fellow hunters who dont have it good. Just the ones who cry all day about how bad it is and then refuse to take even the simplest steps to at least try and make their situation better.

So are you saying I should be a selfish, self centered hunter like you and tell my relatives they can't hunt here anymore? Is killing a deer that important to you?

Nope, not gonna tell you how to hunt with your family. You can put 27 people on your 27 acres for all I care. I only said that you're getting the hunting you deserve. If you and your family expect to have good hunting for 6 people on 27 acres, you are most likely doomed to disappointment and the PGC or anyone else simply cant help you.

Well let's see how things would work if I took your advice and solved the problem by leasing 100 acres of a recent cut from the adjoining dairy farmer for $1000/yr. I could post it solid and spend a couple of season not hunting it and chasing of trespassers and making enemies out of the other neighbors who hunt. That would create a sanctuary and allow the herd to increase and the result would be a significant increase in crop damage for the farmer and a significant increase in roadkills. So as you see, what you claim to be the solution to the problem just creates the same problems that the PGC was trying to solve and which you claim to support. In other words , you have no idea what you are talking about.

Between the fact that you now put 6 people on 27 acres and the above example shows exactly why you are experiencing such poor hunting.

You dont necessarily have to spend money, although some, like you, may think thats the only way. You dont have to have exclusive property. Our gang does quite well on public ground every year, but then, we put in the time. If you dont want to spend money, you will have to spend time and effort. Time and effort is the thing you've told us you dont want to bother with.

You've said time and again that scouting is a waste of time other than just before the season . Scouting is a 365 day activity for some of us. Scouting is also much more than walking in the woods looking for sign. It's never a bad time to observe and learn about whitetailed deer. It's never a bad time to check out a new place to hunt. If your in an area with mostly private land, It's never a bad time to seek out relationships with landowners. It's never a bad time to keep your landowner informed and happy with your efforts. My landowners hear from me year round, not just when I want to take a deer from their land. They know that I'm in it for the long haul and they welcome me back year after year. I get repaid for that time by getting to hunt there and by getting offers to hunt from other landowners they know.

Try thinking like a hunter not a banker. You dont have to spend money. Get out there and work at it. Your efforts will be reflected in your results eventually. It may take quite a while but eventually even you can learn some new tricks.

You say my methods wont work if everyone did it. So what? It's always been that way. Our gang has had to keep changing hunting spots for year as things changed. Timbering, development, disease, winter kills, changes in the herd, maturing forest, changes in nearby farming practice, changes in rules can all cause a change in the hunting for a given spot. Smart hunters learn to adapt. Hunters who won't adapt will be left behind as it appears you've been left.


BTW, in your example, you said the neighbor was a dairy farmer. Are you saying that the deer will eat his cows or are they just going to drink all the milk?