RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

i do agree extremist need to go and responsible managment is key

55 no i want 100 mph speed limits and wont pay anything more than
i have been to dmv till i get 100mph
thats makes no sence and dmv would simply take my licence and not allow me to drive right

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

Your irrational.[8D]

Responsible management should be expected.

Rediculous extreme speed limits shouldnt.

Also noone, but pgc, is saying it has to be EXACTLY a certain way. And thats far from true and totally unacceptable.

If a rogue unanswering agency dictated we have 100 mph just because it would benefit their friends the auto wreckers and emercy hospital, people would complain and do anything in their power to prevent it.(LOL)

Comparing your rediculous irrational scenario to reality, That is what is occurring. People have demanded legislators listen and act. Don't like it? That donation link will work for you also.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

More true words couldn't be spoken. Like I said, it's obvious thatthe deer management plan, or lack there of, beingexecuted (or not)by the PGCleaves MUCH to be desired. I still say thatwe need county specific (I really believe this)management/antlerless quota's like we used to have before WMU's were born. Doesn't everyoneagree that WMU's came about as a result of cost cutting? The commission said it would be easier/cheaper to manage this way. So, perhaps with a license increase (yea, I know) they could affordto go back to the way it was before the decimation ofdeer in some area's. Or,should I be accused of having visions of grandeur?[8D]

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

PGC probaly thinks your irrational hopefully they think they are doing
responsible managment
maybe 100 mph is extreme to you but not to others maybe now you can see how others feel about your thoughts

AS for your donation link put where your management skills are

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

"PGC probaly thinks your irrational"

So does Audubon society and Peta.

"maybe 100 mph is extreme to you but not to others maybe now you can see how others feel about your thoughts"

If they do, then that says alot about them. Middle of the road views arent extreme.Extreme organizations get sued and have legislative intervention. Extreme views cause hunternumbers to drop at over the double average from 2001 to 2006. Extreme views have no data to back extreme measures.

"AS for your donation link put where your management skills are"

I guess you are a hypocrit. Figures. Want everyone else to payfor YOURviews.

Sorry, but if the nice polite kid down theroad washes your car and charges $10.Thenone day, he washes half the car,cracks the windshield and urinates on your seat, I doubt your gonna reach foryour little man-purse when he looks you in the eye and says THAT'll be $20 this time, and from now on old man!

Thats what has become of our relationship with pgc. Fraudulent scamartist tree hugging buffoons looking for a handout to further an extremist agenda.

No responsible management = No money.;)

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

atleast you know where your managment plan is

for ins reasons the kid down the road cannot work for me

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

"atleast you know where your managment plan is "

Yes, about 3 steps above pgcs and yours.

"for ins reasons the kid down the road cannot work for me "

Since we are drawing the correlation beteen him and pgc, Try and stop him. You can sue, you can petition the legislators...but hes coming with the bucket and you'll pay wether you like it or not.;)(LOL)


I also think other issues that should be considered with approving or not approving funding would be waiting to see results of the audit we were promised. Also a VERY close look taken at who is put into the 3 commissioner seats. If econuts are once again the majority on the board, legislative action of some sort should be in the works asap.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

i think the audit will be a good thing

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

"Doesn't everyoneagree that WMU's came about as a result of cost cutting?"

No.At the time their finances were in much bettershape. The reason for the larger wmus wasso doe tags could be used more effectively in reducing the herd and more could be sold by not limiting their area of use so much. Pgchas stated at several meetings since that they have no interest in going to smaller wmus. Straight from Rosenberry himself. And that is money or no money. All smaller wmus would accomplish would be to allow more deer where they could be had, and alleviating complete and total blanket reduction. Unfortunately that isnt a concern or priorty of pgcs, and without arm twisting, it likely never will be.

"So, perhaps with a license increase (yea, I know) they could affordto go back to the way it was before the decimation ofdeer in some area's. Or,should I be accused of having visions of grandeur?"

Ive followed pgcs position on these issues closely for years. Pgc has no plans of going to smaller wmus if they gain funding.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

Bowtruck, it can be. Initially we were told by legislators that for pgc to get a fee increase, hunter satisfaction would need to improve. They said that if the audit results were adhered to by pgc theyd work out the funding.

Now if thats the case, I could probably support it. You have to remember though, there is no way that pgc can be forced to go along with recommendations that a audit may introduce. Then the only way to "force" change is legislatively, and certainly not by paying pgc more.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

[/quote]


Suitable places to hunt rabbit and pheasants are scarce and have been for a long time. .



Your question about paying to hunt gamelands makes no sense. I'm sure you are driving at a point with that but I missed it. Please enlighten me
[/quote]






My point is.....hunters do not want to pay even more money to hunt PA when they aren't seeing deer.


Your statement above about smallgame could be used for my next scenerio.

Would you be willing to buy a rabbit and pheasant small game license to huntthem, if the PGC would implement that idea. Even if you had your health, you would probably pass, because those small game species aren't very abundant.

I could brag to you how I know of a few great rabbit places, I even went out last Saturday and got some.

Just because I found a few rabbits, doesn't mean PA doesn't have a problem with not having many for hunters to hunt.

Of those bucks you have on your wall, how many were taken before HR?

Be honest.


I'd bet you were taking big bucks way before AR or HR.

There are guys like you that have a few Honey Holes and seem to think that things are fine across the state because you have a good place to hunt.


I have a few great places to hunt rabbit, so does that mean rabbit hunting is just fine in your area?

Would it be right for me to call you lazy or a lousy hunter because you can't find rabbits?

I can find them, so what's your problem?

Get my point?

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

I understand that some, even most hunters are seeing less deer especially in the traditional deer regionsbut if they're seeing no deer then there is simply a problem with the hunter not adapting to changes. Deer hunting has changed in many areas. Lets be fair though...Some of that change is probably a direct reult of HR but some of it is because HR should have happened years ago

No arguement there. The PGC has basically failed in the upland game department. That is very old news. Thats been a problem that goes back to the 70's. No it's not all their fault. yes small game habiat has suffered from "clean farming" but they have failed to identify why populations are also down in many places with ideal habitat. Instead we throw what money there is into a put and take deal that benefits relatively few.

Fair question....

Two of my PA wall hangers were taken before HR


Absolutely true

You are partly correct, I do have my honey holes. Of course I do. I'll also tell you that I wasn't born into them. It took years of effort to learn how to identify them, get access and takes serious ongoing effort to keep them. BTW, I don't "own" any of them! Where you're wrong is when you assume that my honey holes are influencing my views of the success of the current deer management. What I'd bet you didntknow is that I also hunt many other spots that are public land and private land that is open to the public and it is in those spots where Ihave seenthe most notable improvements. My old honey holes are really no better or worse since HR/AR because they were being managed correctly before AR and HR.


Yes I do get your point. But I'll also say that if I had a desire to find rabbits, I would find them. If rabbit hunting were important to me, I would adapt to the dismal conditions and seek them out. I wouldn't keep going back to the same spots and complaining thatthere used to be rabbits here. I'd simply go out and find em without needing toblame someone.

Actually, I do know of some good rabbit spots because i have friends that are avid beagle guys. If I talked they'd probably shoot me;)

My pointwould be that it's a hunting license not a killing license and we still have some of the best deer hunting in this country. Is it easy everywhere? Nope. Is it the PGC's fault? Not near as much now as it once was. The only real failure of the PGC with deer is them not growng a spine early enough to head off this situation we have now. Had the PGC managed the numbers based on better science years ago, we would probably be better off especially in the traditional deer woods.




[/quote]

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

That is pure nonsense. i posted the data that shows 2G was at it's deer density goal in 1999. the statewide herd was close to the deer density goal in the early 80's and the increase in the herd since then was due to the increase in the southern tier counties ,rather than in the NC counties. you simply have no idea what you are talking about.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

BTB says:
"we still have some of the best deer hunting in this country"

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

First off, we never did, nor even close.Second its gotten worse, and continuing the slide.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

Yelling in red just makes you look more stupid and desperate

If we are such a nationwide joke, perhaps you can explain why Pa has repeatedly been held up as a positive example in virtually ever sporting publication across the USA. Better yet, show me one non USP publication where our deer program is being called a joke. If you can find one, which I doubt, during your search, you'll have to wade through dozens where PA is being applauded.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

Ok btb, your right, we're tops! (LOL) (LOL)(LOL)

Why dont writers pick on Pa? Same reason they dont pick on other bottom barrel states.

On the other hand, ask anyone from DECENT deer states or worse yet, GOOD ones and see how many would bewilling to trade the hunting in THEIR state for Pa's (LOL)(LOL)They'll laugh in your face.

I also didnt say anything about our rediculous joke deer program. You said our state was among the best hunting in the nation. Im simply stating that is complete lunacy and you better go get checked. That tick bite is effecting your judgement.

But since YOU brought it up, yes the joke deer plan is responsible forworsening the situation!;)

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

If you want to know what hunters think about the current deer management plan just look at the decreasing non-resident license sales.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

Or the fact pgc employees have needed to wear bullet proof vests (LOL)
Are being sued.
And have had legislators step in.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

My opinion on the subject,I blame the feds for the low rabbit numbers.There's way too many hawks and it's time to lift protection to a point.I've also noticed a decline in rabbit numbers as the coyote population increased.{my area in clearfield}
I would like to see more done for grouse habitat.
We have a pretty good bear population right now
pretty good for turkeys too in most places.
There's some great deer hunting in PA but a very high percentage of that is on controlled private land.I'd like to see more done for land open to hunting and the problems of overharvesting.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

Poor Tinkerbell (BTB), he should have checked to make sure Doug and RSB were signed on to defend him.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

I can't imagine why anybody would come from another state to hunt public land in PA.Not for deer anyway

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

Sir thanks for the heads up email sent. Contrary to what those that posters here that support the plan yet don’t feel its effects because they hunt posted family farms or gated communities think pa hunting stinks.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

I agree with you on all fronts Germain. The only thing I'd say is we need to improve habitat on public ground and I'm not just saying to do it by reducing the herd. We need some concerted efforts to do more to improve habitat. Especially on game lands. Funds are always going to be an issue but we need to find a way.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

You know whats amazing? An outfitter just up the Allegheny River from my camp is doing a brisk business as a deer hunting outfitter and putting his hunters on ANF land in 2F. He has clients coming from as far as Europe, many are annual repeatersand spending serious $$ to do it.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

The SGLs are the only public land managed specifically for wildlife. the carrying capacity on SGL is much higher than what the PGC will allow ,so improving the habitat will do nothing to improve hunting.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

the pgc can do what dcnr does
1st dmap the land to where seeing 2 deer is a good season
2nd timber the land
3rd fence it all in to increase profit

the pgc turned deer management over to dcnr through the dmap program its dcnrs land to manage the deer are to be managed by the PGC

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

That honestly surprises me BT.I see alot of guys complaining about deer numbers in the ANF but I can't personally comment because I've never been there.I suppose if they go through an outfitter he has the time to scout and find the pockets of deer.However an out of stater on his own with little or no scouting time is in for a big disappointment on our public lands.Not unless he simply enjoys being out in nature.:D

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

Post a link to his website. On second thought don't bother.

http://www.alleghenywildernessoutfitter.com/

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

I know a little bit about how they run their hunts and they work hard for their clients but they arent doing anything that anyone couldn't do. I even know of a few of the spots where they do their drives. I'll just say they earn em the old fashioned way.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

Yep, thats them!

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

And there is nothing to indicate that they are doing any better than hunters were doing in the same area before ARs.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

Oh really? Maybe you need to study the benefits of planting food plots. A decent food plot on marginal soil will still produce hundreds of times the forage as timber on the same ground. Easy and cheap to estabish? No, but possible on some of our public ground? certainly.

Of course we all know that according to Bluetwist, nothing can be done and never will be done. Acording to Bluetwist, there's no point in hunting any more. The only thing he wants is to sit at his terminal and complain for the balance of his days

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

Kind of a weak desperate shot don't you think?

Can you explain how they do so well on public groundif things areas bad as you claim? I have the answer but why don't you try?

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

Only a poor uninformed fool would make that comment. The PGC doesn't consider the improved habitat value of food plots when determining antlerless allocations for a WMU. they don't care if a SGL can support 60 DPSM, the allocation will be based on the percent regeneration of forested habitat, rather than on the number and quality of the food plots.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

You are just annegativejackass on all fronts arent you? The context of the post was in the spirit ofsomething that could be done on game lands. It is done now just not nearly enough. But of course you dont want to hear anything positive. You only have negatives to spew. Nothing will work according to Bluejob. Bluejob only wants to dwell on problems not talk about solutions.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

You never want to hear the solutions either. So what makes the diff.?

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

If you did more research instead of just all your snotting around you might have known that Pennsylvania has still been leading the nation in the number of deer harvested per square of land mass.

Here are the five averages for the past five years (2002-2006) I could find for all of the states.

Ranking……State…………….…………deer harvest/square mile
1.…………Penna…………………………⠀¦9.41
2.…………Maryland………………………. .9.25
3.…………Wisconsin……………………… .8.64
4.…………New Jersey………………………8.29
5.…………Michigan………………………. .8.03
6.…………W.Virginia……………………†¦7.60
7.…………Delaware………………………. .6.63
8.…………Virginia………………………⠀¦5.62
9.…………Ohio…………………………†¦.5.21
10.………..New York………………………4.82

Your nonsense about Pennsylvania not being worth hunting for deer just doesn’t hold water after all. Have you ever heard what they say about those that laugh last?

R.S. Bodenhorn

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

Thanks RSB, I knew we were up there but didn't realize we were still ranked first.

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

"If you did more research instead of just all your snotting around you might have known that Pennsylvania has still been leading the nation in the number of deer harvested per square of land mass. "

And if youd quit trying to misrepresent the facts, youd own up to the fact we'vebeen killingfar too many and thats the problem.

That is VERY convenient year groupings.... Using THE HIGHEST DEER HERD years included with post reduction years. MUCH more accurate would be the 3 year period from 2005 to, say 2007.

"Your nonsense about Pennsylvania not being worth hunting for deer just doesn’t hold water after all. Have you ever heard what they say about those that laugh last? "

I guess that would mean I am laughing loudest. Unless you can explain to me how having the rediculously high deer herd of 2002 that you included in your cute little bundles of years,has anything to do with hunting NOW? It is COMPLETELY skewing your statisticsto do so.You were including completely unsustainable harvests the likes of which we no longer have. We had a 200,000 plus buck harvest in 2001 just prior to 2002 and ar, and a higher doe harvest than current. We had 109k buck harvestlast year. Nuff said.

Your either dumber'n I gave you credit for, or you think we readers of your postare, enough so to buy complete false garbage..

BTW, my analysis of being a crap state had to do with BOTH the quantity and the quality currently.


BTW, I didnt rank our hunting as "among the best in the nation" previously either. But having around the same quality with less deer to boot didnt help one bit. In fact in some areas the plan hurt BOTH. Saying "among the best in the country" is just a flat out rediculous assessement.
;)

RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
 

oh yeah, I forgot to laugh loudest: HA HA HA!