I dont shmooz or dilly dally with kid gloves. I call it as I see it.

RSB was flat out wrong to make that blanket statement toward all hunters. I hope it was a momentary lapse in judgement and he let his temper make it's way to the keyboard. God knows that many here let that happen. myself included.

You are the other extreme. Never giving an inch. Hunters have a voice but you want it to be exclusive. If hunters lose more ground it will be because of extremist, no compromise,"deer behind every tree hunters"just like you demanding that we hold the PGC hostage and not seeing that we will lose more groundwith thatultimatum strategy.

RSB says: "Hunters are heard, they always have been."

Currently, Not even a little.


"Since hunters are the only ones that fund the agency who is too blame, but the hunters?"

The hunters arent the ones currently being paid, wether we like it or not, tocater to treehuggers and and mismanage our wildlife.

"Obviously the hunters that do support adequately funding, and I do believe that is the majority, aren’t being affective or we wouldn’t be trying to run wildlife management on a shoestring budget."

Like me, they pay less than willingly, because not hunting isnt an option. It shouldnt be an either or proposition. Thingsshould be done ina responsible manner.

"Think about it and then tell me who is too blame,"

lemme take a second...PGC!

"What we have now is NOT WORKING!"

You are correct. A very nonhunter friendly bunch of extremists calling the shots and running pgc financially into the ground...and hunters as well as legislators refuse to let the mismanagement continue.... Solution? Pgc straighten the hell up!!

I never said or thought that hunters didnt have a say. My statement that hunters deserve to have a voice was a direct response to your statement about hunters "taking a flying leap"


Statements like that directed randomly are quite likely to do you and the PGC way more harm than good. I have been largely supportive of the PGC and its current management. I daresay I'm among its strongest supporters here and you have managed to royally piss me off with this one. You might want to think about what you say when you find that you've managed to piss off the friendly's.

I am very sure that should the real skunks, standing in the way of proper wildlife management, be smoked out you would be one of the first ones gasping and running for a protective hole to hide in.

For the first time in the history of the Pennsylvania Game Commission there has been a Board of Commissioners with the guts to stand up and do what was RIGHT FOR THE RESOURCES instead of caving in to the public political demands that have been proven to be wrong time after time.

It was the failure of past Boards and their caving to the whims and demands of uneducated hunters and politicians resulted in so few deer in so many areas today. And, you want that to continue until it adversely affects even more areas of the state so figure you are obviously one of the real skunks.

R.S. Bodenhorn

"You are the other extreme. Never giving an inch."

That couldnt bemore untrue. Ive supported pgc until fairly recently. That was when I gave my inch. They take miles and never offeran inch. Ive followed the pgc meeting etc. for years. All I see is 100% noncaring attitudes PERIOD. Thats what turned me off. The cumulative effect has formed the position I now hold in regards to pgc. I dont like them, I dont respect them and that is that. The boc and higher ups have the EXACT antihunter attitude that you jumped on RSB for a minute ago, and thats a fact. If you havent seen that then your either lying or blind.

"Hunters have a voice but you want it to be exclusive."

Hardly the case. Ive yet to see the hunters of Pa be heard since the new regime took over and planted the treehuggin' seed in our commission. Its not just a deer issue either.Take the crossgun for example. The meeting was JAM PACKED with anticrossbowfolks and many othersemailed sent letters etc...probably 80+% against! Yet what was the outcome?? who the hell were they listening to? Just one more turd from the arses at pgc to top off the huge heap theyve been shoveling at us for the lastseveral years.

"If hunters lose more ground it will be because of extremist, no compromise,"deer behind every tree hunters"just like you demanding that we hold the PGC hostage and not seeing that we will lose more groundwith thatultimatum strategy. "

BULLSQUAT! What you consider compromise equates to NO CHANGE of ANYTHING. Because without the "arm twisting" NOTHING will change. No compromise, no NOTHING. Heck even WITH the arm twisting, to this point, the course is being adhered to.

I agree you cant compromise with extremeists. Thats why pgc has and will continue to say NO to smaller wmus and NO to season changes of any kind and NO to reasonable allocations.... Compromise? I dont see pgc proposing any, and certainly aint holding my breath. I'll take my chances with our fine legislators who DO listen and DO represent us and ARE elected by us.

"I am very sure that should the real skunks, standing in the way of proper wildlife management, be smoked out you would be one of the first ones gasping and running for a protective hole to hide in."

Sosayeth the Elk Countypolecatden-master.

"For the first time in the history of the Pennsylvania Game Commission there has been a Board of Commissioners with the guts to stand up and do what was RIGHT FOR THE RESOURCES instead of caving in to the public political demands that have been proven to be wrong time after time."

There were nutjob"conservation extremists"that got into the pgc before and rightfully they were tossed on theircans. That is exactly what needs to occur once more. Dont know why anyone didnt count onhistory repeating itself and extremists weaselingtheir way in, but that only points out how flawed the system is.

" And, you want that to continue until it adversely affects even more areas of the state"

Yeah. The shame on you party line.The states wildlife mismanagement is so far out of the spectrum you speak of,its actually kinda funny. Not only has pgc taken deer levels across the state lower than need be, theyve also COMPLETELY IGNORED hunterson basically any meaningful issue period, including ones that THEY asked for input on!.

Since hunters are the only ones that fund the agency who is too blame, but the hunters?

This one really takes the cake. Like we are driving the bus here.

Your right, I am pretty angry. Why shouldn’t I be? I also recognize that you are one of the good guys that does support sound management.

But, maybe your anger also allowed you to missed the part about the hunters taking that flying leap WITH THEIR MONEY, with the money being the real point I was trying to make.

The point of that comment is that the day has obviously come when the hunting license dollars should just go to the State General Fund with the Legislature doing as they darn well please with it and then simply using tax dollars from ALL of the public to fund the State’s wildlife management programs.

Obviously the State Legislature would like to have the hunter license dollars to build roads or give them selves raises with so let them do it. I actually can’t wait to see who people will blame for the price of a hunting license then let alone what it will cost them to buy a hunting license.
When was the last time anyone asked the citizens what they were willing to pay for their driver’s license or their vehicle registration?

It is equally obvious that many hunters don’t want to fund wildlife management unless even the least educated among them get to dictate not only how that money is used but also dictate how the wildlife management professional do their job even when scientific management indicates they are doing the right thing. Therefore, I say we would be much better off using tax dollars provided by all of the Commonwealth citizens. Let the State Legislature take those hunter dollars and do as they darn well please with it. If the wildlife management professionals can’t use the money to do what is right for the future of the resources without listening to the least educated hunters in the state then that money is noting but a hindrance toward the future of our resources.

It is time for change because what we have now no longer works toward a solid future. I am sorry if that offends you but the facts are still the facts andpretty much the way I see it at this time.

R.S. Bodenhorn

Sorry, but having the General fund control the GC will lead to nepotism and corruption. There will be no budgetary constraints..no value return. The sportsmen paid all the bills and damned right! If it weren't for interested sportsmen, there wouldn't be any wildlife. Do NOT count on non-hunters to foot any bills, even though they claim to love wildlife. If the GC falls under Legislative control, I guarantee that WCO numbers will be slashed, licenses will soar in cost, but administrative expenditures will go through the roof from all the desk jobs created for politician's family members and cronies.

"Your right, I am pretty angry. Why shouldn’t I be? "

Oh you should be alright. But your anger is misplaced. It should be with your employer agency.

"The point of that comment is that the day has obviously come when the hunting license dollars should just go to the State General Fund with the Legislature doing as they darn well please with it and then simply using tax dollars from ALL of the public to fund the State’s wildlife management programs. "

The Audubon Society has been saying so for years, so it MUST be true.[:'(]

"It is equally obvious that many hunters don’t want to fund wildlife management unless even the least educated among them get to dictate not only how that money is used but also dictate how the wildlife management professional do their job even when scientific management indicates they are doing the right thing."

The joke you refer to as "science" are rock bottom basic principals that pgc stretches far out of context. Taking our deer herd down a reasonable amount in some areas of the state is sound science. Taking it down everywhere and many places for zero reason and to extremes....Then "the science" (which pgc can never provide besides dropping repro and fawningrates etc)becomes merely a pathetic excuse and distraction from what is really going on.

"If the wildlife management professionals can’t use the money to do what is right for the future of the resources without listening to the least educated hunters in the state then that money is noting but a hindrance toward the future of our resources. "

And listening to the least educated AND biasedpgc employeesin the state is an improvement how?