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How sad hunting is becoming...

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How sad hunting is becoming...

Old 01-11-2009, 03:14 PM
  #1  
Fork Horn
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Default How sad hunting is becoming...

I do apologize on the length of this post, but a co-worker and I who are both above avid hunters had a very intersting and really sad conversation the other day that I'm sure alot of you will be able to comprehend with.

We started discussing how we both just enjoy hunting and actually just harvesting deer. My friend is 34 and myself 24 so neither of us have hunted nearly as long as alot of people but we both hunt multiple states on public ground and private and just enjoy hunting and harvesting deer. Now I would not consider either of us to be trophy hunters. We are both as happy harvesting a 4point as we would be a 10, but I'm not making this post either for or against antler restricitions because it doesn'tmatter to me either way if we have them or not,but I do believe so called trophy hunting is one of the main things ruining hunting. It really makes me sick when I hear someone say why would you want to shoot a scrubby 6point when he may be a 10 next year? Who cares?!?! If someone wants to shoot the first legal buck and it makes them HAPPY then let it be. Myself and my friend we are Happy shooting the first legal bucks we see along with 75% of the hunting world. I'm not going to deny that shooting a monster won't make me happier than shooting a spike but I will not lose any sleep over it. 10 years ago you had very little of this bickering and fighting like you do today over shooting big bucks. People were more apt to share there hunting spots or allow you to hunt there land, but now with the big push for ''trophys''it's made people downright greedy.People are forgetting that hunting is supposed to be FUN and this is what I think is sad that people areforgetting that hunting is supposed to be FUN!

I enjoy shooting my bucks with the bow and have been very successful doing so, but I also enjoy hunting with ainline, flintlock, or a rifle so I'm not strictly a archery hunter, but enjoy hunting with any weapon. I have people say to me every year, why don't you wait for a big buck? My response is any buck with a bow is a trophy and I will stick to the till the day I die. These same people will say is theres NO deer so why are you filling all the doe tags you get!?!? I have2 responses tothis. First I say well if theres no deer then how is itthat I manage tofill all my tags? Now I will say that Idohunt most nights after work and everysay throughoutthe season soI do put alot of time in butI am by no means a full time hunter who doesn't work a 7 to 3:30 job.My next response is well how long ago has it been since you quit harvesting small bucks or no does? Most guys I have this conversation with are say 40. and there response is 5 years ago. Well I say ok so you were 35 when you quit harvesting does and little buck so that gives me 11more years to do so. This usually gets them thinking and changes there attitude a little bit.It all comes down to the fact that people forget where they came from and what used to make them happy! I'm sure the day will come when I start passing on small bucks and all the does but I assure you a young hunter laying the smack down and legally filling all his tags will do nothing but make me smile!!

The final statement my friend made was how he actually believes archery is one of the things destroying hunting. Now he is a avid archery hunter also and lives to archery hunt so this isn't coming from someone who hates archery hunters or anything like that. It took me awhile to agree with him but this made sense to me. The only way my friend used to hunt deer before archery hunting was in a gang with 25 guys. 10 years ago they could hunt on any of the gang members property and anyone could shoot any legal deer anywhere they hunted, because they were there to have FUN. Now as archery hunting and trophy hunting got more and more popular thisguy or that guyin the gang wouldn't want the 25 guys on his property possibly shooting the buck he watched all through archery season. This eventually led to the end of most of the gang hunting where so many hunters had so much fun for years and years. It sucks to admit but he's kinda right and if archery hunting wouldn't have grown so much in popularity where would we be? Don't get me wrong I will never quit archery hunting or lose my desire to send a arrow through a deer, because I think thats the best feeling in the world, but it is something to think about.

Sorry to be so long winded but these were just a few of the things we discussed that I thought many of you whether a full blown trophy hunter or someone like myself who doesn't consider himself a trophy hunter may want to think about.
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Old 01-11-2009, 03:28 PM
  #2  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: How sad hunting is becoming...

The final statement my friend made was how he actually believes archery is one of the things destroying hunting. Now he is a avid archery hunter also and lives to archery hunt so this isn't coming from someone who hates archery hunters or anything like that. It took me awhile to agree with him but this made sense to me. The only way my friend used to hunt deer before archery hunting was in a gang with 25 guys. 10 years ago they could hunt on any of the gang members property and anyone could shoot any legal deer anywhere they hunted, because they were there to have FUN. Now as archery hunting and trophy hunting got more and more popular this guy or that guy in the gang wouldn't want the 25 guys on his property possibly shooting the buck he watched all through archery season. This eventually led to the end of most of the gang hunting where so many hunters had so much fun for years and years. It sucks to admit but he's kinda right and if archery hunting wouldn't have grown so much in popularity where would we be? Don't get me wrong I will never quit archery hunting or lose my desire to send a arrow through a deer, because I think thats the best feeling in the world, but it is something to think about.
Believe it or not I had the same thought today while plowing snow. It was prompted by Confused's post about hunters needing to find common ground. When the majority of hunters hunted in groups they had similar goals. Now with more archery hunters, the sport has become more a sport for the individual rather than as a group. Even rifle hunters are using more climbing stands and sitting all day in a tree. ARs have also resulted in more posted land with more competition for a few big buck.

Several archery hunters have stated they don't care what is happening in the rest of the state as long as they can fill their tags. That attitude will result in continued division among the ranks of hunters and i don'tsee any solution to the problem.
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Old 01-11-2009, 03:32 PM
  #3  
Fork Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Default RE: How sad hunting is becoming...

ORIGINAL: tky1187

I do apologize on the length of this post, but a co-worker and I who are both above avid hunters had a very intersting and really sad conversation the other day that I'm sure alot of you will be able to comprehend with.

We started discussing how we both just enjoy hunting and actually just harvesting deer. My friend is 34 and myself 24 so neither of us have hunted nearly as long as alot of people but we both hunt multiple states on public ground and private and just enjoy hunting and harvesting deer. Now I would not consider either of us to be trophy hunters. We are both as happy harvesting a 4point as we would be a 10, but I'm not making this post either for or against antler restricitions because it doesn'tmatter to me either way if we have them or not,but I do believe so called trophy hunting is one of the main things ruining hunting. It really makes me sick when I hear someone say why would you want to shoot a scrubby 6point when he may be a 10 next year? Who cares?!?! If someone wants to shoot the first legal buck and it makes them HAPPY then let it be. Myself and my friend we are Happy shooting the first legal bucks we see along with 75% of the hunting world. I'm not going to deny that shooting a monster won't make me happier than shooting a spike but I will not lose any sleep over it. 10 years ago you had very little of this bickering and fighting like you do today over shooting big bucks. People were more apt to share there hunting spots or allow you to hunt there land, but now with the big push for ''trophys''it's made people downright greedy.People are forgetting that hunting is supposed to be FUN and this is what I think is sad that people areforgetting that hunting is supposed to be FUN!

I enjoy shooting my bucks with the bow and have been very successful doing so, but I also enjoy hunting with ainline, flintlock, or a rifle so I'm not strictly a archery hunter, but enjoy hunting with any weapon. I have people say to me every year, why don't you wait for a big buck? My response is any buck with a bow is a trophy and I will stick to the till the day I die. These same people will say is theres NO deer so why are you filling all the doe tags you get!?!? I have2 responses tothis. First I say well if theres no deer then how is itthat I manage tofill all my tags? Now I will say that Idohunt most nights after work and everysay throughoutthe season soI do put alot of time in butI am by no means a full time hunter who doesn't work a 7 to 3:30 job.My next response is well how long ago has it been since you quit harvesting small bucks or no does? Most guys I have this conversation with are say 40. and there response is 5 years ago. Well I say ok so you were 35 when you quit harvesting does and little buck so that gives me 11more years to do so. This usually gets them thinking and changes there attitude a little bit.It all comes down to the fact that people forget where they came from and what used to make them happy! I'm sure the day will come when I start passing on small bucks and all the does but I assure you a young hunter laying the smack down and legally filling all his tags will do nothing but make me smile!!

The final statement my friend made was how he actually believes archery is one of the things destroying hunting. Now he is a avid archery hunter also and lives to archery hunt so this isn't coming from someone who hates archery hunters or anything like that. It took me awhile to agree with him but this made sense to me. The only way my friend used to hunt deer before archery hunting was in a gang with 25 guys. 10 years ago they could hunt on any of the gang members property and anyone could shoot any legal deer anywhere they hunted, because they were there to have FUN. Now as archery hunting and trophy hunting got more and more popular thisguy or that guyin the gang wouldn't want the 25 guys on his property possibly shooting the buck he watched all through archery season. This eventually led to the end of most of the gang hunting where so many hunters had so much fun for years and years. It sucks to admit but he's kinda right and if archery hunting wouldn't have grown so much in popularity where would we be? Don't get me wrong I will never quit archery hunting or lose my desire to send a arrow through a deer, because I think thats the best feeling in the world, but it is something to think about.

Sorry to be so long winded but these were just a few of the things we discussed that I thought many of you whether a full blown trophy hunter or someone like myself who doesn't consider himself a trophy hunter may want to think about.
wow, this post is so true, something i noticed myself also was this elitist attitude bow hunters seem to have. it's like they are the only ones out there that matter and any other hunting groups are some sort of subspecies that shouldnt even be in the woods. i spend some time on another bowhunting forum and really got peeved when i recently readan 18 year old bowhunter post about how he hates rifle season and rifle hunters????
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Old 01-11-2009, 03:34 PM
  #4  
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Default RE: How sad hunting is becoming...

"Trophy Hunting" is such a interpretable concept/term. To me it means someone that pays an outfitter to sit them in a shed over a pile of corn where they know a big one is and then they shoot it, cape it out for a mountand donate the rest of the meat to Hunters for the Homeless.

While I love a lot of hunting shows, I just roll my eyes that a lot of the published writers in the magazine are nothing more than point and shoot guided"hunters" with money and time on their hands.

I don't shoot little bucks any more, but I am far from a trophy hunter. I want 2.5+ year old deer, regardless of what their rack looks like. My largest to date is a 110" 10 pointer that I got this year, a trophy of a lifetime for where I hunt.

To me deer hunting involves everything that goes with shooting a deer, the drag, the butchering, the camraderie, the ribbing,the smoking/cooking, etc... I want to do it all because that is what it's about to me. I am amazed at the number of hunters that not only haven't ever processed their deer but don't even know how to do it. There is more to hunting than sitting in a tree, shooting it, then dropping it off at the local butcher shop. The work and pain in the ass factor is all part of the journey and ends up being a fond memory later or. Skinning a frozen deer with frozen hands in frozen conditions makes that meat that much tastier and rewarding.

As to why I don't shoot little ones, I am just not into it anymore. Call it elitism or just plain not rewarding to me anymore but I just feel like any one can do it where I hunt. If I needed some meat for jerky I would tag a doe in the final day or something. I hunt WV browse deer, on the ground, and our land is still unmanaged at the moment although I am not against food plots, I just haven't been able to do it.

As long as a hunter is happy with how they are doing it then they should keep on keeping on, to each his own. As for me, I'll put in all the work until I am unable to do it and hopefully I pass that ethic to my children. I never give a guy a hard time for shooting a little one and I wish I could say I don't feel some resentment from a few hunting friends for me holding out and bagging the larger bucks our area supports.
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Old 01-11-2009, 03:41 PM
  #5  
Fork Horn
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Default RE: How sad hunting is becoming...

WestVirginiaBrent a agree 100% on enjoying every part of the hunt. The other night we were eating backstrap cheese steaks and I thought man this part is better than pulling the trigger. And it's funny you say about a 2.5yr old deer being your trophy b/c thats what I've shot here in pa 2 out of the past 3yrs and it is kind of what I do aim for, but if a legal 1.5yr buck comes in I do have to let a arrow fly.
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Old 01-11-2009, 03:59 PM
  #6  
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Default RE: How sad hunting is becoming...

tky1187:
I have to agree with you on alot of your points,,,Im 42 yrs old and i miss the days when we all gathered at camp the sat. before the first week of buck in Clinton co. Back then we had to have a camp roster and if i remember correctly,,most years it was a page and a half long with names,,,some guys would stay a day,,,some a week ,,,and then there were a few that stayed the whole 2 weeks with little sh!ts such as myself racing off the school bus in tennis shoes to run in the camp,,grab a gun and hit the woods,,,,This year i didnt hunt Pa. only because i have such good hunting here in Va. that i could'nt justify comin home and taking the time off plus the expenses of liscenses for my son and i to not see at least a couple deer,,,,there was one doe shot by a hunter at camp this year and only 3 hunters in camp for the 1st 3 days,,,rest of the 2 week season there was 2 hunters that hung it out with no deer sightings after the 3rd day. I kinda feel like i let the "Camp" down by not going to participate with my son this year,,,but the hunting in Pa fire has just burnt out for me and i have to say that i think participating in these forums and reading how alot of hunters judge a deer by its antler growth has helped to pour water on that fire. Here in va.,,,my son and i are blessed to have a small tract of land to hunt that is private and then we utilize alot of public land and damn it we have a good time,,,we both shot small bucks this year,,,my son shot a nice 8pt that is at the taxidermist right now gettin mounted,,,does,,,a few too many button bucks,,,,,and we high fived everyone of those deer,,,laughed at the different circumstances that surrounded each kill and gave thanks for the opportunity to just be out there enjoying Gods creations and each other. We never had a down moment (even when a button buck was shot accidently) and i never seen my sons excitement change whether he shot a doe,,or the big 8pt,,,he was excited the same with all of them,,,which made me even more excited,,,because to me they are all trophys and should be treated as such! Good luck to you and your buddy and keep the current attitude you have,,,,if nothing else it will keep you from bickering on these forums like a lot of these guys
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:12 PM
  #7  
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Default RE: How sad hunting is becoming...

I agree with some of what your saying, and see where your coming from. But there's also alot more to this than what your thinking. First off your only 24yrs old, that means you were 14 when you write on how things used to be 10 yrs ago! Big Bucks have always been what alot of hunters seek. I've been hunting 25yrs, 20 of that w/bow. I've never seen gangs of archery hunters. Archery has always been more of a individual sport in the woods. Sure guys will get together, hunt a area, and meet afterwards to tell their tales, share info. But in the woods its a lone sport. So I don't totally agree archery is ruining hunting.
You say you'll never change on harvesting any legal deer. I wouldn't be so sure of that. Alot of hunters go through a series of changes as they get older. Their goals in the woods change with age. You very well may find once you get up there in yrs, and you've harvested many, many younger bucks, and possibly haven't taken that Big Buck you've always truly wanted. Your goals with change to accomplish that. I personally have nothing wrong with a hunter thats wants to hunt strictly for a big buck or the hunter that shoots any legal buck. Its every individuals hunt when there in the woods. So to each his own. So I think its wrong any one hunter should be telling another hunter how to hunt.
Far posted land, and less people allow others to hunt their land. I don't think its strictly because of hunting. Lawsuits, Insurance Co's, have also forced land owners to keep others off to protect themselves from liability. Stealing expensive hunting gear like treestands also comes to mind as a good reason.
Just a few of my thoughts to consider.
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Old 01-11-2009, 05:09 PM
  #8  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: How sad hunting is becoming...

i agree with buckalley well said
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:05 PM
  #9  
Fork Horn
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Default RE: How sad hunting is becoming...

BuckAlley I apologize I didn't explain myself about the gang hunting. I meant gang hunting as in 25 guys hunting in rifle season. My friend and his gang still can get enough guys to drive in rifle season, but they only go to public land to do so b/c you can't get enough private land owners anymore to allow it. Also most of what I was referring to 10 yrs ago were things my co worker brought up, BUT just because I was 14 at the time doesn't mean I don't remember or know how hunting was 10 yrs ago. I can rememeber tagging along and everything about hunting in my area since I was 8. Hunting memories and past seasons aren't anything I'll ever forget. I never participated in a gang hunt untill I was 18 but I can remember when I was 8 to 10 different guys in my family talking about this gang shooting this or this gang shooting that and how they couldn't hunt this spot this year because of this guy and so on.
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:06 PM
  #10  
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Default RE: How sad hunting is becoming...

wow i also totally agree. I've been reading a number of these threads and i definitly notice an arrogance among the bow hunters. I've alsonoticed the same "trophy or nothing" attitude from many people that I know that hunt. It seems anyone who shoots a spike or god forbid, a button buck by acciident, shouldn't be allowed to hunt.Personallyit's none of my business to dicate what they shoot but many seem to want to dictate what others shoot. I hunt for the love of huntingand the satisfaction of eating something I've personally taken from the woods. Ilive in a subburban area andhunting is limited to the daysI can get away. That usually equates to 3 or 4 days of bow hunting and 10 days of gun hunting. I try to hold out for a nice buck and i've shot my share of really nice deerbut if its late in the season and my tag is empty I will shoot a doe or a spike. After spending many hours in the woods I do believe any deer I've taken is a trophy and I personallylook at the spike buck that took me 50 hours in the field to kill with as much if not more satisfaction then a 6 or 8I shoot 5 minutes into opening day.
PS-I realy get a kick out of the guys who say you just need to scout better or hunt harder to get a big buck. Lets face it on opening dayof gun season in PA or NY luck plays a substainially bigger role in who shoots the big one then skill.
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