pa antler restrictions yes or no?
Here we go again!
11-26-2008, 10:36 AM
#4
Spike
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: South Central PA
Posts: 29
RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
Not to get this argument started but, I have noticed that the bucks we see on our farm in the past few years have by and large been much bigger than the deer we saw when we first moved there 10 years ago. I was against the restrictions at the beginning but i can now see the effect that it is having on the deer herd. Don't jump all over me this is just my 2 cents!
11-26-2008, 10:51 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Audubon & Red Rock, Penna.
Posts: 4,472
RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
I was against them at first but changing my tune. At first I didn't like taking out the young deer with the best genetics. I'm sure a lot of spikes are saved and a lot of yearling 5,6,7 and 8 points are shot. Then I started thinking it was a good thing but still figured folks should be able to shoot what they want. Now I've shot a few decent bucks and would never shoot a spike or fork again so it doesn't bother me.
Actually, I can't remember the last time I saw a spike. I have seen 11 eight pointers though.
Actually, I can't remember the last time I saw a spike. I have seen 11 eight pointers though.
11-26-2008, 11:25 AM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
OK I'll do my best try to put in a comment here without riling anyone.
Besides the notable improvement in the quality of bucks being harvested, I think the most positive result from AR is the drift away from the mindset that a 3 inch spike was somehow something to be more valued and proud of than harvesting a doe. How many times did we hear this in the old days: It's only a spike orforkie but at least I got my buck!
AR was something that was a little oversold to us like everything else is these days. Now that we've seen some results and more research has emerged over the past few years, I think we can agree that our point restriction is never going to turn PA into an Iowa, Kansas or Illinois. It has undisputably improved the quality of the bucks we see harvested.
It's been pretty well proven that a spread restriction is more effective than our point count but I think a point count was our most realistic way to ease 900,000 into a new way of thinking about our buck crop. I now hear guys talking in terms of the bucks age rather than his antler points. Thats from a culture change that wouldn't have happened herewithout our having started withthe point restriction.
It's also been pretty well proven by extensive research that young bucks with smaller antlers are not inferior genetically but it's more likely that they were born later in their first year than the better racked young bucks. Most bucks equalizeat age 41/2 but very few get there in PA.
The point here is that we arent having any real effect on the gene pool, good or bad.
I think BarnesX.308 said it very well:
The best thing to come from AR was to start a change in the mindset of the average PA hunter. More and more hunters are drifting away from that idea of shooting the first thing with a bone on it's head to being willing to kick it up a notch.
Besides the notable improvement in the quality of bucks being harvested, I think the most positive result from AR is the drift away from the mindset that a 3 inch spike was somehow something to be more valued and proud of than harvesting a doe. How many times did we hear this in the old days: It's only a spike orforkie but at least I got my buck!
AR was something that was a little oversold to us like everything else is these days. Now that we've seen some results and more research has emerged over the past few years, I think we can agree that our point restriction is never going to turn PA into an Iowa, Kansas or Illinois. It has undisputably improved the quality of the bucks we see harvested.
It's been pretty well proven that a spread restriction is more effective than our point count but I think a point count was our most realistic way to ease 900,000 into a new way of thinking about our buck crop. I now hear guys talking in terms of the bucks age rather than his antler points. Thats from a culture change that wouldn't have happened herewithout our having started withthe point restriction.
It's also been pretty well proven by extensive research that young bucks with smaller antlers are not inferior genetically but it's more likely that they were born later in their first year than the better racked young bucks. Most bucks equalizeat age 41/2 but very few get there in PA.
The point here is that we arent having any real effect on the gene pool, good or bad.
I think BarnesX.308 said it very well:
I was against them at first but changing my tune. At first I didn't like taking out the young deer with the best genetics. I'm sure a lot of spikes are saved and a lot of yearling 5,6,7 and 8 points are shot. Then I started thinking it was a good thing but still figured folks should be able to shoot what they want. Now I've shot a few decent bucks and would never shoot a spike or fork again so it doesn't bother me.
Actually, I can't remember the last time I saw a spike. I have seen 11 eight pointers though.
Actually, I can't remember the last time I saw a spike. I have seen 11 eight pointers though.
11-26-2008, 12:17 PM
#10
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 175
RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
Boy wait till RSB gets ahold of this one,I see another sermon on the horizon.Personally,i'm against it even though I don't shoot anything small anymore.
My theory is if a buck doesn't mature till he's 5-6 years old chances are he's never gonna make it past 2 or 3 in this state anyhow so we're just prolonging the inevitable.If these 1 1/2 year old spikes and forkhorns are not genetically inferior as once belived,by the time there 2 or 3 and are harvestable under the AR,chances are they're gonna get it before they get to maturity anyhow.
My theory is if a buck doesn't mature till he's 5-6 years old chances are he's never gonna make it past 2 or 3 in this state anyhow so we're just prolonging the inevitable.If these 1 1/2 year old spikes and forkhorns are not genetically inferior as once belived,by the time there 2 or 3 and are harvestable under the AR,chances are they're gonna get it before they get to maturity anyhow.