We all know that is all you have to contribute,so why do you keep making yourself look bad?

Your stubborn ignorance is some thing of legends. The bucks we are killing are proof of your misconceptions.You really need to get out and visit some archery shops,sports stores or any big buck contests.The results are undeniable to any that care to see.

Herd reduction has gone to far in many peoples eyes,and has caused a huge decrease in deer numbers. I know of few hunters that are happy with these numbers. Buck numbers and kills have fallen because of the over all size of the herd ,but of course we all know that don't we.Yet for anyone to claim that we are not growing and killing the best quality bucks of the last fifty years is just plain bunk.

Coalcracker, when I first started frequenting this area of the board, I was very much like you. My first convo with bluebird (I forget what handle he went by then) was that I was sympathetic to his inability to find a legal buck. Then he promptly stated in a provocative fashion how his group shot 5 buttons that year. Well, as you can imagine, it went downhill from there. He only wishes to stir the soup, trust me. I have said that HR has gone too far in many areas, but that AR is fine by me and that my family has had their best buck hunting ever since AR inception. Bluebird cannot come to terms with the fact that many...many PA hunters are happy with AR. He will denegrate any hunter that finds mature bucks desireable and paints anybody thatwould pass on a small legal buck as selfish and "horn crazy". How can anyone have respect for someone that damns the PGC for saving a percentage of 1.5 old bucks and in the next breath boasts of killing 5 before they were old enough to grow antlers? He distorts the facts and commits acts of omission to advance his agenda on this board. His purpose is to hornswaggle newbies to the site like you and set an anti-PGC tone in your way of looking at things. Have we reduced the herd enough? I believe we have come to that point. I thinka reduction of Antlerless tags is called for. I am very happy with AR though and make no apologies for it.

Say what you will about BananawamaJimbo. His posts are succinct and on the mark. They are completely in context and to the point and appropriate given the history of this discussion between these members. When you need a recap, look to him for a sum up of the Buebird talking points.

Hunters as hitmen???
You have got to be kidding me! The person pulling the trigger bears no semblence of culpability for his act??
I know that if I truly feel that there are not enough deer in an area, I would NOT go out and rowst out the last lone doe and shoot it. Have some kind of personal backbone and involvement in the condition of your specific location.

Well it seems old BTB disagrees with . Here is what he said about the rack sizes of our 2.5+ buck.
I wish you guys would make up your minds, if you have one. So which is it? Are the 2.5+ buck bigger than before ARs or are we harvesting fewer 2.5+ buck than we did in 2002 ,before any bucks were saved by ARs?

Less deer does in fact mean less deer BB2.
What is your point besides curmudgery?

We were told ARs would double or triple the number of 8 pts and that buck harvests would return to normal in 2003. So are you telling me Alt lied and he didn't have a clue about deer management?

I guess they underestimated the overzealous button buck targeting, and the willingness of stump sitters to abandon buck hunting and shoot the very first fawn they see during concurrent seasons. I have never backed concurrent seasons, except for possibly junior hunters. I know what you are going to say Sproul about junior hunters, but go ahead anyway!

No, they didn't underestimate anything. They wanted a 50% reduction in the herd and came pretty close to reaching that goal and in some areas like 2G they exceeded the goal and the herd is down over 60%. But Alt still claimed ARs would double the number of 8 pts and that buck harvests would return to normal. You are either in a state of deep denial or you have no idea what the goals were when this plan was implemented.

Here's a classic example of BB2's smoke and mirrors that make no sense if you really read.....

In a question where he asks for us to make a choice between two "facts" he asks are they bigger or are there less of them?

Duh! Bluebird, do you walk to work or carry your lunch?