RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

That is only because you are forced to pass on the small buck you would have normally harvested. Our bucks are no bigger today than before ARs.

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

my CONCERN FROM WHAT I AM SEEING THIS YEAR IS LACK OF FAWNS.

I DONT THINK I SAW 2 FAWNS THIS FALL IN WESTERN CLINTON COUNTY.:(

if anything, we have got to look into this.

i feel
l that COYOTES are doing in fawns, in fact, i know they are.

there must be way to get rid of these coyotes,i hunt them, we trap them but they still come back.

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

dont any of you think that you have fewer buck because people keep killing all of the does year after year?? and i dont know what you deer numbers are but i could spot light and see 75 deer along about a 10 mile road now i might see 50 and the number of bucks is the same to more depending on the day over the last couple of years numbers so say an area that doesnt could have low numbers to begin with. all the the killing of doe that has happened in this state could mean alot less fawns which means even more less buck. and by the way the quality of buck i have seen is great ive been hunting this farm and this area for 7 years and have not seen good buck like i have seen and have trail cam pics like i have yet.

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

You hit the nail right on top of the head BTBowhunter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

i dont really know much about the AR, but my dad said ever sinceit started the deer population went down

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

Based on that data it appears that the rack sizes of 1.5 buck decreased instead of increasing. Furthermore the percentage of 3.5-6.5 bucks decreased instead of increasing. The sad part is that only a fool would use the bucks brought in for mounting as representative of the general buck harvest.

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

The AR's aren't killing off the deer population. The ability for hunters to kill whatever they see during the rifle season is what is lowering the deer pop. I have taken the 2 biggest bucks I have ever shot in Pa during the past 2 seasons, A 120" 8 point in 07 and a 112 5/8" 11 point this year. I had my fiance's son out yesterday for his first deer hunt. The first shot I heard was at 6:50 AM and the next 6:58Am. It was 15 mins later till I heard a 3rd shot. I did hear alot of repetitive shooting fromguys shooting outside of their capabilitiesthroughout the day.I wonder how many of those guys who emptied their gun on a deer actually recovered that deer. Willing to bet less than 25%. Compared to 10 years ago the shooting was scarce. But the bucks I did see harvested were alot larger than the bucks harvested when I started hunting. We need to have a happy medium, more deer than we currently have while still managing the herd for larger buck. I think this can be done- reduce the amount of time hunters can kill doe.Keep the AR. On the unlikely occassion we have an "overabundance" of deer lengthen the season. There needs to be flexibility in policies mandated. When the progam runs it's course and the objective is reached changes must be made and done so in a timely manner not just when damage control is the only option.

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

Hunters can't kill whatever they see due to ARs and those hunters that don't buy a doe tag can't kill whatever they see. The combined effects of high antlerless allocations combined with the effects of ARs are the reasons our herd has been reduced. ARs were the carrot Alt used to get hunters to shoot more doe and now we are paying the price.

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

i dont think any of us had say in what the PGC/DCNR did.

it does not take much for meat hunter to have reason to kill,just let door open and they will ruin your hunting.[:@]

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

You knew what I meant by killing whatever they see= brown it's down. I know it's happening and anyone sitting in the woods hearing one gun fire 5 shots at a deer is almost always shooting at deer out of range or in cover.You yourselfdefended those who need more than one shot due to firing in heavy cover,more mistaken killshappen this way thanany other. Having the ability to kill doe all rifle season long is a MAJOR factor in the reduction of the deer herd. If antler restrictionwas a major factor ina reduction in the deer pops. the areasI hunt outside of this state would reflect the same- THEY DO NOT. I heard your overwintering stats and your fawn birth stats and all those other stats you quote from theGame Commission. I know what I see and I know from experience what an antler restriction did for the lands I have hunted. We have alot less deer in my area of PA but the numbers of Big Buck harvested now compared to when I started hunting is much higher. Am I completely happy? No! In my area the doe allocations have to be reduced andif not for AR- every deer in the woods would be killed, wounded or get shot at. I do not believe having a free for all is going to do any good for the deer populations. Nor is that a safe environment for anyone who hunts or lives near hunting grounds. You and I have beat this dead horse into burger already. I said what I had to, now you have my willingness to leave you have the last word. Enjoy!

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

I challenge you to produce a quote where I defended the need for more than one shot due to firing into heavy cover. You can't do it because I never said anything close to that.
The experts at the PGC totally disagree. They claim that the antlerless allocations are the major factor in determining the antlerless harvest. Do you know more than the experts?
Can you explain why the PGC harvest stats don't support your position?

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

after 2 days of hunting hard,11 of us got 1 six point buck.

we saw a four point and around 8 doe.

this is about what i am seeing here in WMU2G clinton county..

3 years ago, we were seeing more big bucks than we are now.

i blame it on LACK OF FAWNS ,shooting the spike bucks.

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

I wish that WV had restrictions, on all of the farms around us they shoot whatever they see and don't let the bucks grow up and mature[:@]

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

Do mature bucks taste better than younger buck?

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: bluebird2

Heavy Cover or "obstructions" It's pissing contest over semantics but here you go- Pa Game Comm Overhaul page 35, Post 343. Look it up, this is where you referred to me as a perfect hunter, I still feel warm and tingly over that compliment.

Now, I guess you would like me to borrow your blinders and not look beyond that statement.But I see the content of your statement and here is my take.
I have bumped deer and I know what deer prefer to travel in. I also know a stand of tall timber does not contain the amount of deer the thick heavy cover does. So unless you know nothing about deer and are putting on drives through open areas with a few "obstructions" you are pushing through heavy cover where deer bed down. So you still want to attest to never defending those who need more than one shot due to firing in heavy cover or thick obstructions?
If the "obstruction" is large enough to deflect a high powered rifle bullet I consider that cover or obstruction to be "heavy" or too thick to be shooting through.

I am trying to leave you have the last word so have atit, but I can't give it to you if you keep requesting my responses.

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

I would say yes. The reason is- it usually takes more work, time and effort to harvest bigger, more mature deer and the feast after that hard earned trophy seems to be more rewarding. If it comes easy; I do not appreciate it as much (in my mind).

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

I wish New York would do it.

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

That has nothing to do with taste. That is all about personal satisfaction of harvesting a bigger mature deer.

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

No, but where is that question getting you?

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

About the same thing as any other question posted on a MB!!!

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

what exactly was the restrictions in pa

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

Bluebird let me ask you a question...
Would you rather shoot a 4 point or a 10 point
which would you get more satisfaction

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

in the areas where the woods are wild, like WMU2G,its 3 points to side.

in farm areas where lots of food is, its FOUR TO A SIDE.

is it working, yes,we like it very much..

but you have to count points,if buck is far away or running, you let him go unless you can see 3 points.

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

is it 4 on one side?

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

That is a ridiculous question since the average 2.5+ buck is a a 7 or 8 pt., not a ten point Only 1 in approx. 20,000 hunters get to harvest a 2.5+ buck each year so I would much prefer the opportunity to harvest a spike or a Y.

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

so you're tellin me that you would rather shoot a little buck compared to a monster?
haha BS

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

No , I am telling you I would rather have the opportunity to harvest a spike or a Y every year than have the potential to to harvest a 10 point once every 20 years!

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

What's a Y
and i've been hunting since i was 8. I shot a spike my first year, two years later i shot an 8, and for two years i passed on multipule spikes, 3 pt., 4pt.....7pt., 8pt. and 9 points i'm now 16 and i shot a 12 point on the opening day of bow season. i just don't understand because i would not be satisfied with a kill of a small buck.?

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

NO FUN IN SHOOTING A YOUNG BUCK...:)

my dad raised us this way, other dads raise their kids for MEAT and any horn is meat.


let buck grow older and let a doe grow older ande dont harvest a doe in areas where there are few.;)

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

thank you

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

[quote] i just don't understand because i would not be satisfied with a kill of a small buck.? [/quote

If I don't fill my buck tag by the end of the concurrent season, I will be more than happy to harvest the first BB i see that is worth skinning. I will not have a buck mounted unless I can sell the mount and I won't place the antlers on a plaque. I may nail the rack on the barn so the robins to have a place to build a nest, but that is about all that big antlers mean to me at my stage in life.

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: bluebird2


GASTLY:(

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

The highest BB harvest on record occurred 20003. The highest 2.5+ buck harvest occurred in 2004. so ,can you explain why harvesting BB is Gastly?

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

"No , I am telling you I would rather have the opportunity to harvest a spike or a Y every year than have the potential to to harvest a 10 point once every 20 years!"

BB, I totally agree with you on this one. And you know what, the big racked deer were there all along, way before AR's. The biggest buck I ever shot in 2G was in 1990. And the year before that I passed on a 10 pt buck with an estimated 22" spread there because I didn't have a goodclear shot.Didn't want to take a chance on wounding it.

My point is, there were smaller racked deer and large racked deer, and it was my choice if I wanted to shoot a smaller one or a larger one.

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

Even with an antler restriction you have a very slim chance of harvesting a mature buck since your sights are on bare minimum requirements. If you shoot the first buck you see you'll almost never see the larger buck that you claim AR's don't produce. I pass up deer time after time till I find the buck I am hunting for but then again I put the time and effort into knowing what buck are in the area so I know which buck is the largest and pretty accurately judge how many deer are in the area and the ratio of buck to doe. I base the submission ofmy antlerless applications on the deer population of area I plan to hunt. If I see more than 2 to 1- doe to buck I submit for 2 doe permits if I see it at 1 to 1 or 2 to 1 I don't submit for doe tags in that area for that year. I am not a meat hunter who only cares about filling a tag and that is what your statements make you appear to be. You have alot of good info in some areas and some skewed info and opinions in other areas. You must do alot of reading and that is great but it makes me wonder- When do you have time to hunt when spending so much time reading PAGC stats and reports. Spend as much time in the woods as you do coming up with arguments and you might see these bigger bucks.

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

You "passed" on a 10 pt. OK, so if I see a deer and have no shot, that means I passed on that deer?
Don't claim to pass up a 10 pt if you are admitting to wanting to shoot a spike or Y. You didn't have an opportunity to shoot the 10 point- tell it as it is. I commend you for not shooting and wounding the deer. Like I wrote above.. if you shoot the first bare minimum buck you won't shoot a big buck.

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

Deleted for skirting the profanity filter, violation of posting rule number 1.

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

not degrading anyones opinion,you all are good info.

let me give mine from hunting 47 years and dads from back to 1925..

he said way baCK THEY KILLED big bucks because the hunters left spikes go so they would grow up.

then, he said they started to kill spikes and small buck around 1960s as deer became less .

back in early years you would see 5 to 10 buck a day easy, so they shot big ones.

his racks are in my garage .

now from the 60s to when they started the AR , the bucks killed in clinton county were not to large on horns..

this is because hunters shot any buck.

2 years after AR went into effect, i saw huge bucks here in clinton county.

in those 2 years ,not many shot a spike buck even tho legal for kids.

after that , the word got out that kids could shoot a spike buck,this has hurt the bigger rack bucks that i was seeing after first 2 years.

i saw nice buck this year BUT very few.

not like the 2nd 3rd year of the AR.


I BELIEVE THE lack of fawns IS ONE REASON.

OTHER IS NOW, I AM SEEING 3 TIMES THE NUMBER OF LICENSES FOR KIDS than the 2 years after the AR was started here in clinton county.

so, i feel shooting the little bucks and lack of fawns is reducing the number of 2.5 yr old deer.

right now is crucial..

i feel the AR should be for all of us.this would help.

next, we got to kill off these coyotes,they have done a number on the fawns here in clinton.

we got to get word out to sportsman that killing a fawn is ruining our sport.

this is what i am seeing.

if doe hunters do a number on the deer on saturday here in clinton county, i feel that next year will be worst than this year has already been..

i stopped at many camps in kettle creek that NEVER saw a deer, others no buck and others with 1 buck but saw very few deer.

this was good week to hunt to, snow onground and LOTS of hunters were into renovo area to hunt but many were not to happy.

most said this,IF ONLY WE WOULD SEE A DEER WOULD MAKE OUR HUNTING FUN, WHY DONT THEY CLOSE THE DOE SEASON HERE IN WESTERN CLINTON COUNTY.:eek:

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

sproul

Only 30 years here but I agree with everything you said.

The brown it's down guys really beat up on the herd. I layed out all of the racks I have shot over the past 30 years and it tells the story. Now is better than ever. Also, I stopped shooting does in my area and I almost always get a doe tag just to take 1 off the market. On public land the slaughter has taken its toll.

Now things are beginning to look up. On my SGL 4c we always had over 100 cars in the parking lot and a real pumpkin patch back 3-4 miles. This year we counted 45 cars at 11:00am opening. Reports from real hunters that know how to locate the deer is that they saw more this year than the past 5. More big bucks also. The problem is what it has done to the sport. Where did the 50+ cars of hunters go. The sport is dieing. I have no legacy of hunters other than my nephews and I will love it as my SGL becomes less and less hunted. More and better deer for me. I do feel very sorry for anyone trying to get a kid interested. A glimpse of a deer is not enough to keep anyones attention. I love just being out there for the day and enjoying the outdoors. Very tough to teach a teen that.

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

very good post;)

most of hunters that left here in clinton is do to they got their doe in early in-line season.

others went to other countys,like allegheny for doe kill.

most of hunters i talk to ,if they got their doe early, they only hunt here in clinton if weather is nice.:)

just about everyone that was at camps this week, got a doe in another county early.

so, they dont kill themselves.

read btb post on him getting a few deer in freezer early.

not degrading him only using him as the AVERAGE hunter that wants meat and has already got deer.

this is A reason you dont see large crews now and then add in lack of deer and possibly driving a DOE out to another hunter that is sitting in a treestand in middle of their drives.:eek:

lets say over half hunters want a deer, lets say that, others want a buck or enjoy camp.

thats what i am seeing.

i was surprised the number oif hunters that came to clinton this year but MOST already got a BUCK OR DOE.in ANOTHER COUNTY BEFORE THEY CAME THIS YEAR.

THEY DID NOT HAVE the drive to kill a deer here as they already got one in early in-line season .:eek: