Coalcracker

I've hunted for 54 years now, if I waited for that 10 pointer, I'd still be waiting for my first shot at a buck.

Offer a kid a dime, penny and a nickle, I'm sure the kid wouldn't take the dime but one of the bigger ones. Bigger sounds like child mentality.

I realy get a kick out of these guys that are always passing on multiple bucks each day, ever notice they never tell you where they are hunting? At times I wonder if it's a secret SGL with a wire fence around it.

Matt / PA

I'm merely reciting the lamenting I hear from the "Old Timers"in the state who constantly whine about no deer in the big woods.........I've heard that exact statement over and over.
HERDS of deer, 20, 30 and 40 in a group.
That's what they want and that's what they miss.
I'm not making it up just repeating what I am told the "good ol' days" were like.

That's not what I asked and you know it..........you turn around and all 3 are standing there. You get to PICK one.
Which one do you pick Mr. first legal buck?

You half ass game biologists with your spreadsheets of bogus numbers that you twist to reflect whatever you want crack me up.......deep down you are all hypocrits. Condemn the guy who wants a better quality of buck but deep in the heart they want that 10pt too.

If you say you wouldn't shoot the 10pt yourself you are truly a bigger phony than you sound like day in and day out on here.

So which one is it? They're all standing there, ducks in a row. You get to choose.

Matt / PA

And that's exactly my point. That is the mentality that has been so engrained into our hunting culture here. If EVERYBODY thinks that way then everybody shoots what they feel will be the best the state has to offer.........and that's dictated by a fear of the next guy killing it anyway. So if it's legal it dies.
This is the best I'm gonna do, this is the best the woods have to offer so it's MINE.

Can you honestly say to yourself I wouldn't care to see a really good mature buck now and then? Only one way to do that and that's not blast the first 5pt that walks by, and the guy over the hill has to feel the same way, and the guy on the next ridge and so on and so on.

Have any of you guys who think you know what a real deer herd looks like and what good deer hunting really is ever hunted in the midwest? Have you ever seen deer truly being deer? Grunting, chasing does, 2yr old bucks running around like rats to aleviate the pressure of feeling the NEED to kill one? Enough big mature deer to really make you feel like you have an honest shot at one?
I hunt PUBLIC land every year in Illinois. PUBLIC land and it is better than any private land I've ever hunted in PA.

It's that way for one reason.....the generations of hunters before me who screwed it all up and continue to do so with their warped ideas of what a natural deer herd should look like and their idea that a buck is a buck.

If you have never seen a 10pt mature deer in 54 years of hunting does a light bulb not go on in your head that something is wrong with the state of the deer herd and the managemnt practices over that stretch of time in this state?
God forbid we try something different beyondwanting does running everywhere and a spike hanging by it's neck in the garage.

I have hunted other states like Illinois and Nebraska and it's an eye opener as to just how different the mindset is in this state.

Funny thing is that it's generally the older "wiser" crowd who under the new plan that I consistently hear complain about no deer, wasting their time, and wanting to shoot whatever buck they want. Why? That's the misguided tradition passed down to them by THEIR fathers. It's what they know, what they grew up with , what they feel comfortable with and because they saw lots of deer they assume that was the best the state could give them.

I realize it's a tough state to manage with the number of hunters we have and until that pressure of feeling like we NEED to kill the first legal buck because of that orange army surrounding us advancing the health and quality of the deer herd will be a tough row to hoe if not just because of the vocal minority who want it the "old way".

And while you're at it since I know nothing and your obviously such an expert in the field why don't you tell us all exactly WHo you are and what your qualifications are with all your charts and numbers?
What gives you the right and ability to tell me I know nothing when I'm basing my views on experience over 25 years of hunting here?
How about your game management resume?
Is it better than mine? YOu have a degree in biology?

Until you quit the anonymous pot shots and same ol same ol crap I got news for you, your words don't carry any more weight than a 12yr old kid on here who says "I like big bucks, I like AR's"
You're just an anonymous blowhard who wants everything his way because it's best........WHY? because you say it is.

cuernos1

Matt/PA for get making any headway.... You are talking to the group who sides with stupid... Asking someone if they would rather shoot the 140 class of the spike and them saying the spike is stupid.. Fat chic or Playboy center fold.. I know Fat chic.. BULL S&^*....

For you guys who just want to get out of your car and fall over a deer, go doe hunting.. Please.. I like how most avoid my posts.. quote your statistics against the heads I have on my wall... I find deer each year... cause I work at it....

None of the loud mouths said anything about the tresspassers on my farm or the idea one would have to work for a deer.. control scent, not over hunt a stand, etc... Typical PA mentality.. I can say that because I have overcome it... I have hunted all over and I like my farm in PA.. but I do not like shooting spikes or yearlings.. they are easy.. like the fat chic.. I like a challenge... Meat and easy = Does.. Hunt bucks for sport... you are not killing off you are improving the carrying capacity of the land..

Coalcracker

Who do you think you are, coming on a site and telling me that my way of thinking is wrong because you feel that you deserve a bigger racked buck. I saw on the PGC controlled site that you grew up in Schylkill County, well I grew up on the border between Carbon and Schylkill Counties.

Your not going to come here and tell me that you shot 10 and 12 point bucks between the stripping holes, scrub oakof the Broad Mountain and Springhouse Mountain. I have hunting Schylkill and Carbon for many years, there never were enough bucks that you even pass one up every year, no less multiple sighting over the course of a season,because there were few hunters that got a buck each year.

I now own my own land in Lehigh County, with one of my neighbors we don't shoot buck unless they have seven or eight points andantlers wider than the ears. That is our choice and we did it before AR was established, but I feel it should be the hunters choice, not so people like you can have the head mounted at some other hunters expense.

With your attitude, were you a fast runner in high school or did you ride the bus?

Coalcracker

I figured you would pick the fat chic with your bigger is better mentality.

Matt / PA

My attitude? Are you kidding me? I merely question the old guard and I don't know crap because why? I'm YOUNGER?
I do love how the older generation immediately gets up in arms whenever the wise ones are questioned in their thinking.Who do YOU think YOU are telling me MY way of thinking is wrong? LOl It's a 2 way street.

Where did I say I DESERVE a big racked buck? Because that's what I choose to hunt and question someone else what they would TRULY prefer?

You stated in 54 years of hunting you've never seen or shot a 10pt buck. Correct?
54 YEARS!! [:-]

I asked a simple question........do you not think there is something possibly wrong with the game management in this state over that time period for you to have neverseen a buck of that caliber. It's because of the mentality of the hunters not because they couldn't possibly live in those areas. I grew up just like 99% of the hunters in this state probably did......if it had spikes 3 1/2" long it ate a bullet. We didn't know any better, we never questioned it.......it's just the way it was. Some of us grew up, looked around and saw that there might be more to this game.

I grew up in Minersville hunting those stripping pits. Not exactly big buck USA as you know, and I took my share of small bucks when I was younger......but like I illustrated in my fishing example I moved on to another stage in my hunting.
And guess what? I didn't start seeing bigger bucks consistently until AR's were implimented. No change to my hunting ability or stretegies......but they don't work.

Good for you that you wanted to do something better for your land and the deer and the quality of the experience........however the rest ofthe majority of the state needs to be told to do something similar for a reason.

Tell me this WHY did you adopt those standards for your own personal hunting ground? Bigger bucks and a higher quality experienceor you felt it was best for the herd?
In either case you are voluntairly implimenting a strategy that themajorityof the state is resisting.

And don't worry about ME having to run from anything. LOL Funny stuff.

Coalcracker

Sorry to break your bubble, but you nor the PGC invented hunting for bigger bucks and larger antlers. I had know a lot of those old timer, that ruined hunting as you say, that when they reached their fifties and sixities in age, started shooting only bigger bucks. These weren't just guys that shot bucks every year, some of them shot very few in their liketime, they just enjoyed hunting and didn't care if they got a buck that year. But the big difference between then is now is they didn't complain about hunters shooting smaller bucks, to them it was all about the challenge. Now all the AR guys think they are shooting mature, smart 2 1/2 year old bucks with eight points, but what they are actually shooting is those Y bucks that didn't get any smarter. It used to be that shooting a nice eight point buck was an honor, now you need to shoot a ten to twelve pointer to compare to those eight pointers from years before AR.

Yes, I have set a standard for my property, but AR's has taken away my ability to shoot a wounded undersize antlered buck legally, a wide racked buck with spikes or three or four points, plus some of these odball bucks we are started to have around.

We really had nice racks in our area before AR, but what we disbursed was a lot better than we are getting back. We have a one antlered four point, a one antlered four point with a spike on the other side, a three point to one side and the other antler bent down that you can't tell the number of points. We do have a nice eight with a wide rack, but he only show up on our trail camera between 6 PM and 4 AM, had a nice yearling six pointer, but he was taken out the first day by another neighbor.

I'm not saying AR's is messing up the racks in my area, but no one can prove it isn't either. I'm starting to get a little frustrated by saving button bucks of good quality, then be disbursed in Fall to be shot by everyone,then in return I get these three and four point yearlings. What has happened to our six and seven point yearling, which turn into eight and nine point 18" spreads at 2 1/2 year old? It's because those guys that used to take those two and three pointers, now have to stay in the woods longer and shoot those six and seven pointers.

bluebird2

The reason most avoid your posts is because they don't make any sense and hardly deserve a reply. Anyone that thinks controlling scent and not over hunting a stand are the solutions to the problems created by ARs simply doesn't have a clue. The fact is we have over 900K hunters pursuing around 50K legal 2.5 buck and probably less than half of those would have trophy size racks. The fact is there are fewer 2.5+ buck now than in 2002 ,before any bucks were saved by ARs. ARs have failed to double the number of 8 pts, it didn't decrease late breeding, productivity has decreased and more hunters are quitting. Furthermore, there is no evidence that supports the claim that our 2.5+ bucks are bigger due to ARs.

mlo31351270

Same thing here in NY. I know5 guys over 60 years old that have never killed anythingbigger than a6 or 8pointscoring under 90 points. They have dozens of racks laying all over the place, spikes, 4 pts and 6 pts. They are still wanting to shoot a big buck but are still killing all the small ones. Some of these guys tell me all of the big ones are nocternal and thats the problem. It is sad that they have hunted their whole life and still havnt figured out how bucks get big (age). It is also sad for thebucks themselves that they are not allowed to live more than a year and a half unless they are very lucky. One and a half years of life,give me a break!