Yup, you are correct. Now lets ee if you can grasp why....Maples now dominate where there have been too many deer for too long and not much alternative forage. Oaks where the deer have been better controlled or where enough alternate forage was available. Examples are all over 2G and 2F. Get in the car and go for a drive. You might learn something.

a lot of our OAKS have been cut here in clinton/potter countys.
you used to find OAKS you could put your arms around and not touch your fingers, not anymore, they are gone and they were great producers of acorns.
same with older doe,they were great producers and they are gone also.
potter county is full of CHERRY trees.

The PGC is trying to fix that for ya Sproul!

That isn't even close to being true. Did you get that info from the same source you got the info about Goliath or did you just make it up. There are two distinct forest types and they are determined by soil type ,soil depth and topography. Many areas that have very few oaks had very low deer densities until relatively recently.

Maple has taken over primarily because of thefire suppresion.

Maple is also much more shade tolerant than oak and will sprout and grow under a closed canopy where oaks won't survive. Therefore, when the stand is cut the maple have a hugh head start over the oaks.

Really?I didn't think anything should be growing under a closed canopy.My,how your story changes as you spin around in circles.

Let me get this strait.So you're admitting that in a northern hardwoods forest(approx 40% of Pa's land mass)there should be a mid level understory comprised of shade tolerant species.You know being that maple is a significant part of a northern hardwoods forest composition?Thanks for finally admitting that no understory except a blanket of ferns is not a normal situation for a healthy forest and healthy habitat.

When you have a blanket of ferns it also shades out maple regeneration. The area I referred has no ferns and little if any understory. It does have lots of 6" tall maple seedlings and a few saplings but you can see for 75 yds., even with the leaves on the trees. The seedlings aren't being browsed by deer but their growth rate is limited by the lack of sunlight. There are no oak or poplar seedlings or saplings because there isn't enough sunlight to support their growth.

Furthermore the experts all agree that in pole timber stands the amount of browse in the understory is limited by shading and not by over browsing.

A bit of an oversimplification to say the least. In pole timber stands, even a few deer can overbrowse what little bit manages to grow in the shade.

Can't have it both ways BB.Should there or should there not be shade tolerant trees growing in the understory?You already admitted there should be.Do you want me to show you some examples of not only seedlings making it past the ferns?

I can show you many areas that have a mid level understory that's now over my head.The mid level understory in most places was limited by the deer eating it.Lack of light isalso a factor but like you quoted earlier,there are trees such as maple that do fine under a mature canopy.

Let me quote was you posted earlier."MAPLE IS ALSO MUCH MORE SHADE TOLERANT THAN OAK AND WILL SPROUT AND GROW UNDER A MATURE CANOPY."Nuff said.