RE: PA antler restriction
 

Have you all seen these pics as he matured then?

RE: PA antler restriction
 

ron 3775 no but i bet you can post em' up!

RE: PA antler restriction
 

I will put the link up for it so you can check it out.

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2161170&mpage=1&key=Look&#21 61170


I know its not PA, but it is from an area that is not known for big bucks. I know that according to PA standards he is a shooter and probably would get shot at 1.5. Here is the big picture though, how can you educate a whole state to not shoot a 1.5 - 3.5 year old buck by field judging? You can't. What would be the easiest way to let a young buck go?

RE: PA antler restriction
 

The only way is to ban buck hunting for a year! That is the absolute only way he might have a chance.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

What needs done is like I said state wide education on aging deer. Example, last year I had two buck just like him at the age of 1.5 walk in during archery. I let them walk and ended up eating tag soup. I could have easily taken either one, but didn't. I knew they had potential. On the other hand last year I saw the biggest bodied buck that I have ever seen in my life. I would have guessed 5.5 or older. I could shot him because he was only a big wide 4 point. If I was able, I would have taken him in a heart beat. Now if we could only teach 500,000 other hunters that same mentality, the bucks could and would grow to have the great racks that we are all debating about.

But it can't be done because it would cost to much and people won't listen.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

Of course, you need to keep in mind that the mentality of many people is that they just want to have fun in the woods and fill their tag no matter what it is. Different strokes for different folks.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

He could be a very nice buck in a few years, the only way he would make it in Pa. would be a antler spread regulation, say 15" spread with a hefty fine if you shoot onethat is less,Idon't think that will ever happen in Pa.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

Thanks for the nice pics of a good buck. But, since this buck had obvious potential at 1.5 , it doesn't tell us anything about how the average spike would develop. Before ARs 18% of our 2.5 buck weren't AR legal with a 3 pt. restriction and now it's probably over 20%.

While saving bucks sounds like a fine idea it comes with a high price, If ARs just protect 30K buck it reduces the total sustainable harvest by over 30K and the more buck that are saved the lower the harvest will be in a stable herd.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

We had a 1.5 year old typical 10 point here in 2b a few years back.
We all passed on him, after we all spooked him to "educate" a little.
We wanted to get him through the gun seasons.
He made it to 3.5, at least we think it was the same buck.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

I was thinking that the PAPGC would love that idea of rack width in addition to ARs. Heck anywhere a car was parked they'd get to write a ticket and generate funds for the PAPGC. Just another law enacted to generate more revenue for the PA Police Mame Commision. Please delete this whole conversation before they see the thread and run it up the flagpole to the sportsman and then tell us " but our primary concern remains with our mission-the conservation and responsible management of the wildlife resource for all Pennsylvanians". I thought sportsmen and women paid the bills to them, not pennsylvania?

RE: PA antler restriction
 

It's too late the news is already out, check this out from West Virginia. :eek:

August 24, 2008
'Trophy buck areas' begin growth phase
By John McCoy
Staff writer- The Charleston Gazette


West Virginia's attempt to grow more trophy deer on selected public hunting areas should begin to bear fruit this year.

So says Paul Johansen, assistant wildlife chief for the state Division of Natural Resources. "It probably will take another year or two for hunters to enjoy the full effect of the regulations we put into place, but I'm certain we'll see more trophy bucks come out of those areas during the upcoming hunting season," he said.

DNR officials imposed special antler-width regulations in 2006 for four popular Mountain State hunting areas - Burnsville Lake in Braxton County, Bluestone Lake in Summers County, Beech Fork Lake in Wayne County, and Coopers Rock State Forest in Monongalia and Preston counties. Similar regulations had been put into effect earlier at the McClintic Wildlife Management Area in Mason County.

Under the regulations, bucks with antler spreads less than 14 inches - roughly the spread of the animal's outstretched ears - are off-limits. DNR Director Frank Jezioro had earlier challenged agency biologists to manage a handful of public areas specifically for trophy buck hunting, and the antler-size restriction was the route the biologists chose to take.

"Antler development depends on three factors: genetics, nutrition and age," Johansen explained. "There's not a lot we can do about the first two, but restricting hunters to a certain antler size or larger significantly increases the number of older-aged deer in a given population."

Under ordinary deer-hunting regulations, any buck with antlers more than 4 inches in length becomes fair game. Studies have shown that up to 80 percent of the bucks killed under ordinary regulations are just 11/2 years of age - too young to grow the trophy racks hunters value so much.

As recently as 1999, hunters at the McClintic WMA killed mostly smaller bucks. But in 2000, DNR officials imposed a 14-inch antler-width restriction to see what effect it might have on the deer herd.

"The first year, we had a definite decline in the number of hunters," Johansen recalled. "Hunters aren't dumb. They fully understand that when we put those regulations into effect, it would take a couple of years to grow the sort of deer they were after. They knew that most of the bucks on the area wouldn't be legal that first year, so they stayed away."

Their interest returned the next year, when people began seeing bucks with much larger antlers.

"As soon as people started seeing bucks with nice racks, interest picked back up. McClintic has been a very popular hunting spot ever since," Johansen said.

He expects a few trophy bucks to show up at Burnsville, Bluestone, Beech Fork and Coopers Rock this fall, and more in succeeding years.

"A significant number of 1 1/2-year-old bucks that weren't killed last fall will roll into this year's population as 2 1/2-year-olds," he said. "Those that don't have at least 14-inch spreads will roll over into the following year, and so forth. We'll see the number of legal bucks increase. If the scenario remains the same, the numbers of qualifying bucks and harvest will go up, and the number of hunters will go up, too."

Johansen believes that each of the five trophy-buck areas will develop what he calls a "clientele" of hunters.

"These will be people who are interested in a special kind of deer hunting," he explained. "They're willing to pass up a chance to kill smaller bucks in exchange for a chance at seeing and killing a real trophy."

Even if the five areas become as popular as DNR officials anticipate, chances are slim that antler-size restrictions will become widespread.

"We recognize that those restrictions aren't for everybody, and we don't want to impose them everywhere in the state," Johansen said. "But part of our charge is to provide a variety of hunting experiences, and providing trophy deer hunting is definitely in line with that strategy."

RE: PA antler restriction
 

Looks like ARs are all about trophy hunting no matter what Alt and QDMA said. At least the guys in WVA were honest enough to admit it!!

RE: PA antler restriction
 

I like where this is going! I would love if we could change the mentality here in PA from needing to fill your buck tag to show that you are a good hunter regardless of the size topassing immature buck and allow themto grow. Here isa buck I passed on the first Wednesday last year. Who knows if he made it but if he did he will be much nicer this year.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

Oh my, what a novel idea. Who would have ever thought that healthier deer would amount to larger antlers and more hunter interest? Bluebird how come you don't seem to have a problem with this concept?

RE: PA antler restriction
 

Double post.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

Protecting 1.5 buck had nothing to do with healthier deer in PA. Breeding rates decreased, recruitment decreased, productivity decreased , harvests decreased and there is no evidence that 2.5+ bucks saved by ARs have larger antlers compared to pre-AR 2.5+ buck.

BTW, ARs resulted in decreased rack size in Miss. a 2 out of 3 Units in Arkansas voted to repeal ARs. can you explain why that happened if ARs produce healthier deer?

RE: PA antler restriction
 

finally someone with GRIT and a lot of sense too.
MEAT doe/fawn hunters will not agree with you, it will cut into their DEER BOLOGNA and FILL THE FREEZER AT ALL COST hunters.;)

RE: PA antler restriction
 

BLUEBIRD2, NOT BEING SMART.

as you MATURE as hunter,sort of like AR program, letting buck MATURE he gets tougher to get.
as you MATURE as hunter, you need challenge,shooting doe or fawn when there are few is not good sportsmanship and its not challenge anyhow.

so, MATURE hunter passes on doe/fawns and small bucks, like under six point.

to do otherwise for MATURE hunter,would be DISGRACE in his or hers life.

so, YES you are right, we are trophy hunters but more than that we are CHALLENGE hunters that want it hard,not easy andbelieve a buck, doe and fawn should at least live a few years before being harvested.;)

thats not view of a lot of hunters,MEAT has distorted many hunters,GREED get deer before all gone,or filling tag because it cost me 6 dollars, yes, i heard that comment a lot.[:@]

RE: PA antler restriction
 

If we didn't have enough of those hunters with that mentality , the PGC would never be able to control the herd.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

if you get chance, go to SGL252 in antes fork,pa.

BEST habitat you will ever see for deer, corn,browse.grasses, acorns for 15 miles,maybe more.

try to find deer poo or buck rub,you wont.

talk to hunters, no deer.

why, because HR wiped them out.

its funny, when you pin down people why there are no deer there they will say,SPROUL,THEY LEAVE AND GO ONTO PRIVATELAND,,walk 15 miles to hide,YOU HAVE TO LAUGH.:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

RE: PA antler restriction
 

I agree you are not being smart , but you are also not thinking rationally. I am definitely a mature hunter with over 50 years of hunting under my belt. I went through the trophy hunting phase and have all the mounts I want on my walls. I've passed on my share of bucks , but now all I want is a fair chance to fill my buck tag based on the standards we had from when I started hunting until 2002, when they decided to favor the trophy hunters, simply to get the majority of hunters to shoot more doe and BB.

You, like many others are trying to force your standards on all the hunters of PA so you have a better chance of harvesting a bigger buck. But we are now harvesting fewer 2.5+ buck than we did in 2002 , so nobody wins under the current plan.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

I'm going to start a thread this year with the subject of "the bucks that we passed on". Everyone interested, take a digital camera with you in the woods, and if the opportunity is there, take a pic of the buck you saw from stand and let go by. Thecontest will be on the honor system, and the person with the largest rack he passed on will get a prize. Of course, only entries with pictures would be eligible for the prize, but the telling of bucks seen and let walk would be very much welcomed.
I think it would be a fun way to promote the subject of AR (voluntary or otherwise).
Thoughts?

RE: PA antler restriction
 

Just another ego trip. Who can pass on the biggest buck? Apparently you still have so many deer in your area that you can pass on 1.5 10 pts. I doubt there is 1 hunter in 2G that would pass on that buck. If you want to impress people start hunting SGL's in 2 G and show us your pic of your 3.5 12 Pt.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

I don't hunt to impress. Sorry.
It's a personal thing.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

And I think you are blowing smoke. The vast majority of your posts are presented in such a way as to portray yourself as a superior hunter that is better than the rest of us. If it was a personal thing you wouldn't feel the need to tell everyone how you pass on 8 and 10 pt. buck. You go out of your way to make it very public and to force your standards on those that disagree with ARs.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

We all were excited to see it. It was odd to look at in a way.
Very small basket rack but dang if it didn't have four up on top on both sides.
Little brow tines, but they were there. He came past me at 20 yards with his tongue hanging out, but all alone. Little bitty thing with ten points.
That was the only 1.5 ten pointI ever saw and probably the last one I ever will see. We believe a friend of mine on the other hill got him at 3.5 with a bow, but who could ever know for sure?
Was quite awhile ago, but seems like yesterday. now that I think of it, it could very well have been before AR's. Probably around 2000 or so.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

i was not in favor of HR in WMU2G.


i was very vocal about this and even was threaten and had to change my phone no. to unlisted.

i was even BOOED at meeting that pgc set up by farmers, dcnr wannabees,meat hunters.

so, i did not get my way also.

i also stated that AR will not work if juniors can kill a spike and others usings kids tags.

sooooooooooooo, i now have another group that does not like sproule,s comments as now they are using junior tag to get that meat AND THEY ARE USING IT VERY WELL.

when you see 7 buck and 2 doe killed by a crew of adults,none were over 4 points,most spikes,loading truck with kids so that tags can be used, NO WAY THE AR is going to work.;)

RE: PA antler restriction
 

Here is the thing. I value the time I spend in the woods with my family so much, that if I do get a buck early in archery, I actually mourn the loss of my buck tag. To me, asuccessful season is one filled with many many days afield with close friends and family, hunting the greatest animal that ever walked the planet IMO. My dream season is one that begins in archery, having seen many nice animals, progresses through rifle at camp with great times, seeing others be successful along the way. Then late, after Christmas, have another run of nice times in the woods and finally meet up with a great racked mature buck and take him cleanly with either a bow or flintlock. That is my dream, and I've come real close.
None of that can EVER happen if I shoot the first legal buck that ambles past me in October.
Let anyone else that reads this be the judge of my character and ethics.
You are not entitled. Your chip is too large.
Why don't you hunt some of the areas thatI do? Because then you would have nothing to come here and complain about.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

The solution to that problem is simple. Leave your bow at home and just take a camera during archery. That way you are assured to be able to hunt with your family during the concurrent season and you can post the pics of all the 8 and 10 pts. you passed.


If you really want a challenge and want to know what is it like to hunt where the PGC plan was successful, why don't you hunt the areas where I hunt?

RE: PA antler restriction
 

I hunt 2F. Our party has done very well.
If you have no tag, it isn't the same. Can't explain it.
It just isn't hunting, walking around with a camera.
Takes the hunting instinct out, knowing you can't shoot.
The adrenaline rush when you see something just isn't there.
Maybe I'm odd that I can experience that, and still choose not to shoot.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

I agree that anyone that mourns the filling of their buck tag during archery is more than just a bit odd.

I often walk around during the concurrent season without a gun trying to push deer to other members of my family and I enjoy it just as much as if i was carrying a gun. So ,does that make me a superior, ethical hunter for putting other hunters success above my own?

RE: PA antler restriction
 

I actually approach archery the same way as you Livbucks, I love the whole season so much that it has to be a special buck to letan arrow go. Hunting season as I've said before is the only time I see some of my extended family. So I don'tsee anything wrong with your approach.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

Oh and by the way, I'm in for the passed buck picture thread!!

RE: PA antler restriction
 

Could it be you have misplaced prioirties?

RE: PA antler restriction
 

Bluebird do you realize what a warped miserable old man your writings make you look like? What is wrong with you?

RE: PA antler restriction
 

Whitetail, thanks. I know many that approach it the same way you andI do. The passed buck thread...let's do it.
The prize aspect will be more ceremonial than anything. It's all on the honor of sportsmen (women), so we should have no problem. Maybe BB will join in also. I haven't given up hope of bringing him into the fold, and the light.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

I told you before you were wasting your time trying to insult me, but I see you are not one to take advice. You would accomplish a lot more for you're cause if you could provide a study that showed that implementing ARs, improved breeding rates and productivity while shortening the breeding period. The fact that you can't do it just shows that ARS are about trophy hunting as was make clear in the article about WVA.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

Why would I join in ,in a rigged competition. You can pass on 10 pts. and still expect to be successful because you have so many deer. All I'm seeing is the occasional non-legal 1.5 and if a legal buck happens to walk by ,I certainly won't be taking his pic. If I played your game of passing legal buck , I might as well leave my bow at home .

RE: PA antler restriction
 

BB2, I feel sorry for you man. Hopefully some day you can be positive about one thing.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

I'm already positive about one thing and that is that ARs is the worst way to improve the buck age structure. And , there is no need to feel sorry for me . I learned a long time ago that it is better to face reality and accept it ,than live in fantasy land and be disappointed when those fantasies didn't come true.

Even though our hunting isn't as good as it should be ,I still spent the afternoon building a stand for a brother-in-law that is too old to use a climber or ladder stand. And if you want something positive , I now put bird feeders at all our stands which makes every hunt a lot more entertaining for all. Even if we don't see deer, at the end of the day we can always compare notes on the birds we saw and when they were active. It's a hoot to have a bird fly so close you can feel the breeze from their wings or to have a chickadee land on the brim of your hat..