PA antler restriction
08-07-2008 | 09:14 PM
#71
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,220
Likes: 0
From: SW PA USA
RE: PA antler restriction
ORIGINAL: sproulman
you asked what ole sproulman has complained about on AR.
i like AR but if junior hunter like yourself before did not have to look for horns etc.
now you do, thats great.
crews with junior hunters DONT LOOK, they just shoot and kid tags it or adult has kids tag.
THIS HAS TO STOP.
brown its down with kids tag available is ruining the AR program.
it should be 3 or 4 point rule for all of us.
then let kid be the ONLY hunters to harvest a DOE,no adult can kill a doe in WMU2G.
KIDS ONLY.
WHEN YOU GET 16, THEN YOU CANT KILL DOE .
this would get more kids involved and still let bucks mature.
ORIGINAL: pahunter60
this is my last year being a youth hunter, and im not looking forward for the antler restriction. i just hunt in the rifle season and the deer are usually running and its so hard to count points. im in WMU 1A with the 4 point restriction. is there anybody else that doesnt like the antler restriction, my dad hates it and says it made him lose the interest in deer hunting.
this is my last year being a youth hunter, and im not looking forward for the antler restriction. i just hunt in the rifle season and the deer are usually running and its so hard to count points. im in WMU 1A with the 4 point restriction. is there anybody else that doesnt like the antler restriction, my dad hates it and says it made him lose the interest in deer hunting.
you asked what ole sproulman has complained about on AR.
i like AR but if junior hunter like yourself before did not have to look for horns etc.
now you do, thats great.
crews with junior hunters DONT LOOK, they just shoot and kid tags it or adult has kids tag.
THIS HAS TO STOP.
brown its down with kids tag available is ruining the AR program.
it should be 3 or 4 point rule for all of us.
then let kid be the ONLY hunters to harvest a DOE,no adult can kill a doe in WMU2G.
KIDS ONLY.
WHEN YOU GET 16, THEN YOU CANT KILL DOE .
this would get more kids involved and still let bucks mature.
08-07-2008 | 09:18 PM
#72
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,220
Likes: 0
From: SW PA USA
RE: PA antler restriction
ORIGINAL: White-tail-deer
Here are a few trail cam pictures of some nice buck from around wgere I hunt. I never said we had buckets of booners running around, but I did say that we had nicer buck since AR's.
You can also see some of the nice buck that we have taken on my Outdoor Channel page: http://www.myoutdoorchannel.com/white-tail-deer/gallery/view_gallery.one?pid=27537121
These guys aren't booners but they are aheck of alot better buck than we were seeing before AR's.
Here are a few trail cam pictures of some nice buck from around wgere I hunt. I never said we had buckets of booners running around, but I did say that we had nicer buck since AR's.
You can also see some of the nice buck that we have taken on my Outdoor Channel page: http://www.myoutdoorchannel.com/white-tail-deer/gallery/view_gallery.one?pid=27537121
These guys aren't booners but they are aheck of alot better buck than we were seeing before AR's.
Under the old rules, odds are you'd have had to put your trail cam in a freezer tocatch any of those guys cause they'd likely have died wearing their first rack.
I love AR's
08-07-2008 | 09:44 PM
#73
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,220
Likes: 0
From: SW PA USA
RE: PA antler restriction
ORIGINAL: rem700man
i wish all these guys that think thattheir truths contradict others agendas would just put their pictures where their thoughts are,,,i see a whole lot of "IM KILLIN BIGGER DEER NOW THAT I EVER DID" stories,,,but i have yet to see the pics,,,Livbucks put 2 pics back on page 4 of this thread and i guess their ok bucks,,,but then again if thats what he's killin in "the honey hole" the ones he's passin up in the "****house" aint nothin to be braggin about??? Like Steve863 said,,,the genetics just are not there yet,,,maybe in the future but just not now. I got busted earlier for the ever so funny comebacks such as "you must not be an archery hunter",,,,,"Somebody musta beat ya to it",,,,what a joke,,i will start archery huntin sept 6th this year and finish up march 3rd i believe the date is (dont quote me!!!!) and i will hunt every season in between at least 3 hours a day 6 days a week every week,,i will buy my Pa. non resident liscense for both my son and I and i will hunt hard for 6 days there,,but im not expectin any big surprises in Pa.
i wish all these guys that think thattheir truths contradict others agendas would just put their pictures where their thoughts are,,,i see a whole lot of "IM KILLIN BIGGER DEER NOW THAT I EVER DID" stories,,,but i have yet to see the pics,,,Livbucks put 2 pics back on page 4 of this thread and i guess their ok bucks,,,but then again if thats what he's killin in "the honey hole" the ones he's passin up in the "****house" aint nothin to be braggin about??? Like Steve863 said,,,the genetics just are not there yet,,,maybe in the future but just not now. I got busted earlier for the ever so funny comebacks such as "you must not be an archery hunter",,,,,"Somebody musta beat ya to it",,,,what a joke,,i will start archery huntin sept 6th this year and finish up march 3rd i believe the date is (dont quote me!!!!) and i will hunt every season in between at least 3 hours a day 6 days a week every week,,i will buy my Pa. non resident liscense for both my son and I and i will hunt hard for 6 days there,,but im not expectin any big surprises in Pa.
OK, here ya go...
These are all recent PA bucks.
Clockwise starting from top left
2.5, 5.5, 3.5 and 2.5
I passed all four of these bucks at least once when they were younger. Yes, each one has distinguishing chararcteristics other than rack that lead me to say that. I know my area and the deer I hunt. The one that made it to 5.5 did so because he was elusive enough to only let me get him in range fortwo seasonsvery late in the year and then only afterI had my tag on one of the others
08-07-2008 | 10:10 PM
#74
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,195
Likes: 0
From: PA.
RE: PA antler restriction
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
Same old BS from ole Sproul [:'(]Just an old grouch who's jealous of the kiddies being able to shoot that little buck that he has to let go. Once. Just once Sproul, could you produce some proof for all your wild allegations?!?!?!?
ORIGINAL: sproulman
sproul does not shoot little bucks even if legal.
sproul does not shoot doewhen very few are left in wmu2g..
sproul has never and will never shoot a fawn.
sproul does not brag about killing a doe/fawn for her BACKSTRAPS.
sproul does not brag about killing a mature buck which i do every year on STATEFORESTLAND not privateland in world of btbowhunter.
u asked what ole sproulman has complained about on AR.
i like AR but if junior hunter like yourself before did not have to look for horns etc.
now you do, thats great.
crews with junior hunters DONT LOOK, they just shoot and kid tags it or adult has kids tag.
THIS HAS TO STOP.
brown its down with kids tag available is ruining the AR program.
it should be 3 or 4 point rule for all of us.
then let kid be the ONLY hunters to harvest a DOE,no adult can kill a doe in WMU2G.
KIDS ONLY.
WHEN YOU GET 16, THEN YOU CANT KILL DOE .
this would get more kids involved and still let bucks mature.
ORIGINAL: pahunter60
this is my last year being a youth hunter, and im not looking forward for the antler restriction. i just hunt in the rifle season and the deer are usually running and its so hard to count points. im in WMU 1A with the 4 point restriction. is there anybody else that doesnt like the antler restriction, my dad hates it and says it made him lose the interest in deer hunting.
this is my last year being a youth hunter, and im not looking forward for the antler restriction. i just hunt in the rifle season and the deer are usually running and its so hard to count points. im in WMU 1A with the 4 point restriction. is there anybody else that doesnt like the antler restriction, my dad hates it and says it made him lose the interest in deer hunting.
sproul does not shoot doewhen very few are left in wmu2g..
sproul has never and will never shoot a fawn.
sproul does not brag about killing a doe/fawn for her BACKSTRAPS.
sproul does not brag about killing a mature buck which i do every year on STATEFORESTLAND not privateland in world of btbowhunter.
u asked what ole sproulman has complained about on AR.
i like AR but if junior hunter like yourself before did not have to look for horns etc.
now you do, thats great.
crews with junior hunters DONT LOOK, they just shoot and kid tags it or adult has kids tag.
THIS HAS TO STOP.
brown its down with kids tag available is ruining the AR program.
it should be 3 or 4 point rule for all of us.
then let kid be the ONLY hunters to harvest a DOE,no adult can kill a doe in WMU2G.
KIDS ONLY.
WHEN YOU GET 16, THEN YOU CANT KILL DOE .
this would get more kids involved and still let bucks mature.
08-08-2008 | 05:55 AM
#76
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
Likes: 0
RE: PA antler restriction
Studies have shown that late born BB's often carry only spikes but they can eventually catch up although it takes as much as three years. If he gets killed at 2.5 that means the genes WERE there for him to be legal at 2.5
The old theory that spikes have inferior genes has never been substantiated by any credible source.
Studies have also shown that 1.5 bucks with larger racks are very often bucks that were born EARLY the spring before
I think you just made that up. I have not seen any studies that support that theory. If that were true than all small1.5 buck would catch up to the larger 1.5 bucks by 2.5 ,but they don't.
clever how you slip that word "every" in there. You obviously slip that in there so you can be technically correct but if you had used the word "most" in it's place, the statement would be 100% wrong.
08-08-2008 | 06:29 AM
#77
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,220
Likes: 0
From: SW PA USA
RE: PA antler restriction
ORIGINAL: bluebird2
That is not true. The 2001 antlered buck survey showed 18% of the 2.5+ buck weren't AR legal.
That is also not true. The Kerr study showed that spikes that bred off-spring of spikes produced inferior racks.
I think you just made that up. I have not seen any studies that support that theory. If that were true than all small1.5 buck would catch up to the larger 1.5 bucks by 2.5 ,but they don't.
I am not only technically correct ,I am statistically accurate. Since at least 18% of the 1.5 buck saved aren't AR legal as 2.5+ buck that means 18% of the dominant 2.5+ buck are inferior buck that will engage in a significant portion of the breeding. That is why ARs have the potential to degrade the gene pool.
Studies have shown that late born BB's often carry only spikes but they can eventually catch up although it takes as much as three years. If he gets killed at 2.5 that means the genes WERE there for him to be legal at 2.5
The old theory that spikes have inferior genes has never been substantiated by any credible source.
Studies have also shown that 1.5 bucks with larger racks are very often bucks that were born EARLY the spring before
I think you just made that up. I have not seen any studies that support that theory. If that were true than all small1.5 buck would catch up to the larger 1.5 bucks by 2.5 ,but they don't.
clever how you slip that word "every" in there. You obviously slip that in there so you can be technically correct but if you had used the word "most" in it's place, the statement would be 100% wrong.
08-08-2008 | 07:04 AM
#78
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,275
Likes: 0
From: Ohio,mid
RE: PA antler restriction
BTB, I beleive in AR even though I don't like them. What I do worry about is the amount of Buttons that get killed by the 1 day wonders. 2D is having the 1st week no Doe which I highjly endorse. 2nd week is buck/doe. WE are seeing bigger racks, we do kill doe for meat and try to do it early before the rut. Man those are cool pictures and should get you fired up to get out in the woods!
08-08-2008 | 07:22 AM
#79
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,220
Likes: 0
From: SW PA USA
RE: PA antler restriction
Yes, we are killing way too many BB's. PA's management has a lot of flaws and this is the biggest one. It appears that a gradual change in hunters mindsets when it comes to antlerless deer is the only way for this to get fixed. The good news is that hunters in many states shoot less BB's than PA hunters do while encouraging doe harvests simply by promoting the idea. I beleive it will eventually fix itself but it will be agonizingly slow for most of us here. The hunters I've seen and heard of that are still shooting most of the BB's are the ones who are still screaming about every aspect of our current management direction.
Slowly, very slowly, the one day wonders that are selfish greedy enough to insist on shooting before they're sure of their quarry will fade away
Slowly, very slowly, the one day wonders that are selfish greedy enough to insist on shooting before they're sure of their quarry will fade away
08-08-2008 | 08:49 AM
#80
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
Likes: 0
RE: PA antler restriction
Yes, we are killing way too many BB's. PA's management has a lot of flaws and this is the biggest one.
The alternative is to pass on the fawns and shoot 94,600 adult doe. Since each adult doe that is harvested would have produced approx. 1.5 fawns/doe there would be 141,9000 fewer fawns born the following year and the sustainable harvest would drop proportionately. If half of the fawns that weren't born would have been BB, there would be 80K fewer BB the following year.
So by saving 47 BB one year the result is 80K fewer BB the following year. Is that really what you want?