jgbennett6

"I don't see poaching as a problem at least not realative to other issues in NY" I wrote the paoching part in reference to you statement. I disagree that poaching is good for managing numbers..... also disagree on long term herd increasment with cutting doe permits, eventually will kill off the herd with no browse for them to eat. ... to me it seems like you are anything but a conservationist... and actually could care less about teh well being of the herd. i suggest you put me on block becuase nothing useful is coming from our talks, and never will..especially if you promote paoching.

jgbennett6

Doctari... you are lucky, its strange, in my 13 years of hunting in Ny..i have never even seen a DEC officer, and from what I hear that isa good thing. a couple of my friends have been pulled over randomly by them and grilled pretty hard. both of them recieved tickets. once was because his back tag was obstructed the other had cut part of a different date off of his tag by accident.

Sylvan

For God's sake man, don't be ridiculous! Well I guess well have to agree on one thing though and that is that this disussion isn't going anywhere. I say that in my opinion that poaching isn't a big enough problem in NY to justify increasing spending on the enforcement of game laws and you say I'm promoting poaching? Wow, this is how you carry on a rational discussion? BYE!

jgbennett6

"don't see poaching as a problem "....sorry but to me...if you dont see it as a "problem"..that that is promoting it, especially if you dontcare to stop it.... i agree, we disagree....bye.

Sylvan

Well I'm not going to let you get away with a half quote. I didn't say poaching wasn't a problem and anybody who can read knows I didn't. The operative word here my friend was "relative". You can pretend I didn't use it (for what purpose I can't imagine) but if you want to understand my "point of view" as you said you do then you haven't accomplished your goal because you couldn't be more wrong in what you think my view is. Actually, I don't think you want to understand what I've said at all. I think you just want to argue. I'm not interested.

here was the full quote btw...
"My point was with regard to the cost of enforcement andgiven a population that is far from anydanger of being wiped out I don't see poaching as a problem at least not realative to other issues in NY."

and that to you means I promote poaching? Allrighty then!

jgbennett6

uhhh..if you look above i quoted the whole thing.....please put me on block, i thought you said block.and yes, as far as i'm concerned you might as well promote poaching. oh wait there are more important things than poachin, like other law enforcement?..oh wait there are more important things than that, like a war where thousands of americans have died?...see we can play this game all day... its all "relative". oh and i understand what you've said...i jsut think its all garbage and fits your personal wants and does nothing to better the deer herd in NY..

Sylvan

Why do you go to the extremes? Look, we have a finite amount of finacial resourses in this state. I have an opinion just as you do regarding how those resources should be used. I simply believe that the DEC is adequately funded. That doesn't mean there are no problems or that they couldn't put more funds to good use but nearly every agency could make the claim that if you give us more money we will make things better. DUH! Nothing new there and nothing new about what you've said either. Of course if you have more leo's we could better enforce the game laws. DUH! It's all realtive whether or not you want to admit it. You have to make decisions as to where to spend a limited resource and rational people will disagree. My position isn't new either. Lot's of people are of the same mind. It's not a difficult position to understand if you try. It's ridiculous and intellectually vapid to say someone is promoting your problems just because they would rather focus resources on problems that aren't as important to you.

cnyguy

You might want to look at how the DEC in this state is funded. It's Not under funded at least initially, it could very well support itself with sales and the Pitman-Robertson fed money, but the money generated by these sources are diverted to the general fund and is used for purposes other than the DEC. OUR MONEY...that we pay to hunt and fish. It is basically stolen from us by Albany. DEC is left with what Sheldon Silver and Frank Bruno feel they should have. Its robbery.

jgbennett6

well..thanx for teh compliment (intellectually vapid)... i disagree....you think we have enough Leo's?...we have 2 to cover 3 counties here. that enough..i pay taxes and see tehm work everywhere but here. we disagree thats it.. no more discussion...let others contribute what they think to the thread now.

doctariAFC

I have to correct you on that. The Conservation Fund moneys are NOT redirected to the General Fund. NYS CFAB is the watchdog over the CF money, and the accounting for the CF money is very, very specific and well-documented. However, perhaps what you meant to say is that the CF money, which is used solely for the NYSDEC, is not as well spent as it should be, especially when we understand that 51% of the CF money goes to pay for things like employee health benefits (full ride stuff, not HMO and co-pay), reitrement benefits, etc, etc. That's right, 51%. The other 49% goes to fund the actual activities.

NY is different in how this department gets funded. It is typically structured as 50% from the CF and 50% from the NYS General Budget, although that ratio fluctuates with each new State Budget. This is different than other State's like PA, where the PAFGC is funded 100% by the PACF, receiving not one penny from the PA State General Fund.

Then, of course, we also should recognize that the NYSDEC is not solely involved in Fish and Game, and habitat conservation. They are also enforcing industrial pollution control, Clean Air Acts, etc., etc, and many of these responsibilities would perhaps be best handled by a separate department? When it comes to ECOs, they are involved in enforcement of all of this stuff, not just the fish and game laws. The ECOs are not what you would term "Game Wardens", they are much more, and this, too stretches their resources way too thin.

I have heard some horror stories with "confrontations" with ECOs. I have never had to endure anything like that in Region 9. I am very proud and very happy with the ECOs in our Region. Starts with the Supervising Lt Tom Scott, and his "firm but fair" approach has shown the trickle down affect perhaps more Regional ECOs could use? And the guys here in Region 9 are truly stellar, including the 2005 ECO Of the Year Winner, Mark Maczurkewiecz. ECO Mike Phelps, ECO Roger Thompson, and the others are great to work with, very well trained, and very fair. May not be the same in other Regions.

But this is also due to a lot of hard work and liaisoning between the DEC LE and the Erie County Federation of SPortsmen's Clubs. Our law enforcement committee works very close with the DEC ECOs to develop outreach to the Federated Clubs, getting to know the officers, etc. And the officers make the time to attend the Federation Meetings and discuss with us and update us on the goings on in LE in Region 9 and Erie County. We are a very active, very large Federation and we work closely with these folks, which is a positive for all sportsmen and women in Region 9 and Erie County.

Are any of you guys involved with your county's respective Federation? Do you know if similar efforts are engaged in with your Federation? (I will exempt those living in Genesee County from this Q, as Genesee County doesn't have their own voice, they must work through Oswego County Federation, and the rep that is appointed to handle the Genesee County concerns and desires.)