Sylvan

You are really confusing me regarding how you disagreed with me. All I said was is that the state can increase the numbers by restricting the doe permits. You agreed. Wouldn't that increase the numbers in your area too? If you have too many deer in your region then of course it woudn't be wise to restrict doe permits you would want to increase them. But again what's your point. My point was with regard to the cost of enforcement andgiven a population that is far from anydanger of being wiped out I don't see poaching as a problem at least not realative to other issues in NY. Buck to doe ratios and longevity and all that is an issue I didn't adress so again I don't know what you've disagreed with.

If you want me to address managing buck to doe ratios etcrelative to enforcement costs though I certainly will. Again, IMO, that is even less important than managing overall population when it comes to comparing it's importance to other issues so Icertainly can't justify an increase in cost for it.

jgbennett6

its not teh fact of increasing the numbers its increasing teh quality and reducing the herd to meet the holding amount that thw environment can provide. I see poaching as a huge problem, how can you not?...listen dont preach to me that money can be better spent elsewhere..money is wasted all the time in NY. and trust me its not on DEC officers... are you one of the hunters that goes out once in a while, shoots what they see and call it a year. or do you put in hrs and hrs of scouting and tracking and stand placement trying to kil a mature whitetail?..and dont say you shoot whatever for food, for the money you spend on hunting clothes and shells and guns and the price of a liscnece you could buy a months worth of steaks.

Sylvan

How does poaching hinder efforts to reduce the size of the herd?

btw, as you don't have a clue who I am or how I hunt, its probably kind of silly tospeculate about what kind of deer I pursue/take or how much time I spend at it.

jgbennett6

are you trying to get in a fight?...dont ask stupid questions, because its illegal, and dangerous to the well being of others, not to mention un-ethical, and is not the proper way to manage the herd size. that and poaching also happens actually more so in places where the herd does not to be trimmed.

doctariAFC

Doesn't matter what kind of hunter he is, or what kind of hunter you are. You hunt the way you hunt, he hunts the way he hunts, and so long as both ways are legal, that is that.

I love these conversations about do you "shoot the first deer you see?". The red flag always waves when I read or hear that question. The naswer, for me personally, is no, I do not shoot the first deer I see, I shoot the first deer that gives me a quality shot. If its a 10 point or a spike, or a doe, its meat in the freezer and quality shots are a lot harder to come by than seeing deer. Once I have filled by buck tag, I'm done chasing bucks. Even if that monster came walking out, begging for a kill shot, I wouldn't take it, and have been in that scenario more times than I care to remember. Shoot a decent 6 point on day one, only to have monster 12 walk 40 yards by me on day two. That's hunting. If I shoot that second buck, that's called poaching, which I am dead set against. Doesn't mean I am done hunting, just hunting skinheads until the tags are gone. Once my DMPs are gone (and I have never, ever, filled all my tags) I am done, until extended when those tags are valid once again.

But we have lawbreakers out there. We also have willing accomplices (those who know, but don't report), and quite frankly, when we examine success ratios (actual number of hunters who harvest a buck) of reported harvests, we can readily see that the only thing increased AR would do is drive hunters from the wood. And that is really how AR improves the bucks. Get rid of hunters, and more deer live because not as many bullets are flying. And that is no good, either, because without strong hunter numbers, the Conservation Fund goes in the tank, and we can no longer spend the money to manage the herd we want to manage in the first palce.

Sylvan

You didn't answer the question... how does poaching hinder efforts to reduce herd size? You said it does so if the question is stupid then so was your statement!

jgbennett6

doctari.the reason i asked his methods to try and understand his point of view, you dont need to play moderator here boss...........you are a rarity where i come from, most guys will shoot the first thing with 3" of horn then keep going out looking for the big boy, 4 years ago my neighbor who will remain name-less tried to report a guy who dropped 3 buck running together....his and his families life was threatned b/c of that... you know what it took the DEC 4 Hrs to show up... to the scene, think the hunter stuck around?..nope..

jgbennett6

please quote me where i directly said that poaching hinderd herd reduction?..i didn't you just threw things together, you didn't answer questions i asked earlier either...please do

Sylvan

"its not teh fact of increasing the numbers its increasing teh quality and reducing the herd to meet the holding amount that thw environment can provide. I see poaching as a huge problem, how can you not?..."

Sure appears that way to me but if your not then fine. That means you agree with me in that poaching isn't a problem as far as managing for numbers. You agreed that we can increase the population when we want to by reducing doe permits and you now apparently agree that poaching won't be a problem in reducing the herd when we want to so again where do you disagree? You don't make sense!

doctariAFC

FUBAR. I know that is a huge challenge, and one reason why my buddy refers to the poaching hotline, not as 800-TIPP-DEC, but 800-DEC-JOKE

But I am a rarity. When I call the DEC for LE help, they show up within 30 minutes, if not sooner. Then again, I am on a first name basis with many of the ECOs in Region 9, and they all know me and the quality of my word. Lots of hard work in earning that, and it is something I do not want to ever compromise. As if it were, it would make my efforts in trying to protect our hunting and fishing rights and heritage far more difficult than it already is.