I still wonder why the PGC always uses the excuse of too much territory to patrol. Surely PA is not the biggest state in the country. I don't hearother Game depts. complaining.


Wow! The PGC has to manage 200 plus animals. How many are game animals?

Let's look at some of the western states. They have all kinds of game animals. Big Game like moose, elk, sheep, bear, pronghorns, Mule deer, whitetails, bison, mt.lion, and I believe mt. goat.

And you think the PGC has their hands full?


Still I ask, why is the PGC the only state that has its hunters hating them this bad?

Why don't we see this in other states?

Is there something in the water, here, that makes hunters spread lies and make up stories about the PGC?

Maybe the PGC can blame it on the water?

Remember years ago when the PGC was saying that deer numbers were up and hunters weren't going off of the road far enough to see them?

Well Gee! Now they admit that maybe deer numbers are down And we need to thin them down more for proper carrying capacity.

Who was spreading lies back then?

Hunters were reporting few deer and the PGC was saying the deer were there but off the road farther.

Its no wonder they have problems.

Are the others funded almost exclusively by hunting dollars? How many officers/sqmile do the others state cover? Should make for an interesting comparison.



Are you saying game animals are more important?


What's their wco/sqmile? Do they have ~1 million hunters?



I don't think it is unique to PA.

ChuckS

All animals are important. I believe that game animals are the PGC's primary concern.

I'm sure other state's wildlife agencies also do much to help their nongame species.

I too would like to know wco/sqmile in those western states. I'd tend to believe that PA has more WCO's and deputys. Especially when you look at those hugeareas of roadless land out there.

I know other agencies get goverment funding but if the PGC gets the license increase they want, what will be their excuse then.

Those other states certainly have their hands full with the variey of big and small game they have to manage.

I'm also sure other states have their public relations problems, but did you notice any in this NORTHEAST FORUM involving other states?

What about the other FORUMS on this site. Do they get threads with hunters complaining about their Game agencies, with this many hits?

You seem to think that the public relations problems the PGC has is comparable with other states. I think you are a little off.

I feel the PGC has a spending problem as much as a revenue problem.

With todays gas prices, they don't need full size vehicles. They need to spend all day riding around either. It would be nice if they did a little walking back off of the road once in a while. Maybe they could locate where all those deer are that are supposed to be there. From the looks of some of those overweight WCO's, i've seen, they could use the exercise too.


They could also timber a bit more in some of the northern WMU's, sell the timber and it would help with the regeneration. I heard somewhere on here that they were only allowed to timber so many acres a year. Maybe they should look at that.

If you look at the forrest overbrowseing problem up north. That was the PGC's fault there. Years ago when there was a overpopulation of deer there, the PGC stuck to the one deer per year limit.

Their job was to manage the deer herd to prevent such things and they failed to do their job. Now we are dealing with the problem of the carrying capacity being reduced, because of the overbrowseing years ago.

While PA use to have the 1 deer per year limit, other states were allowing multiple deer per year. That was why I started hunting West Virginia, because after I tagged a deer in archery, I was done in PA.

I didn't see other states letting their forests being overbrowsed years ago, causing the big issues we have today. I just think they dropped the ball in too many areas.

PGC == Penn "Game" Commision if I not lieing about this also. It doesn't say Penn. wildlife commison.

I don't care what some say I have hunted in PA, Ohio, WV, NC, NY, and Wyoming and have dealt with Wardens in most if not all of these states and I can honestly say the PA is the only state that approaches me every time as if I am about to murder someone. I deal with Ohio game commisnors on a reg basis and I can't say a bad wordaboutthem. About 10 yrs ago or so I reported a gentleman for stoppng on the road and shooting at a buck that ran across the road down in Lowhill in Washington county. I gave them a distripition the the guy and car and a full liscene plate number and they told me that I will be hearing from them in this case. Well I am still waiting. While hunting in WV 2 yrs ago I saw almost the same exact thing and I reported it there and was told them same thing I was told in PA except 1 week later they called and told me I wouldn't be needed to testify in court or anything the gentleman plead guilty and is paying the fines. I have made at least 4 calls to the PGC over my past 20 yrs of hunting and I am yet to know how any of those complient went. PGC is totally destorying PA hunting in every possible way. Elk county is a deer wasteland Used to be able to see tons of deer now your lucky to see a dozen deer with a spotlight. A very good freind of mine who lives in NY and is a member of my hunting cabin had some type of Cancer in the back parts of his eyes which he had Cemo(sp) patches put in there and his eye sight is very bad and he called the PGC and voiced his opionion about the antler restrictions and his inabilty to count points. They told him well don't hunt or just shot does. His condition doesn't quilify for "disabled" Don't get me wrong I personally agree with antler restrictions but for some people it just isn't relistic and the PGC should understand this in some points.

R.S.B I will make a point in speaking with you whenI come up I know of 2 houses that I have seen PGC trucks at regulerly 1 at the mouth of Island run but I heard he was retired some yrs back and the other at the house on the edge of Lake City portland mills side. As for the deer skulls/bones not hard to find. Past cemetary turn right(El Rancho road) first hosue on right and first house on left. Someone told me they are brothers but I am not sure of this. Trail runs from back of house bones are 100 yrds back along trail and about 40 yrs on the right side of the trail. If you do not wish to let the guy know your looking into it then park at the small cabin on the left past his house and go straight back about 500 yrds and you will find the trail. You will also find a big wirebarrel corn feeder. But I sure you know all this already.

Trytan

Why is it necessary to check each and every hunter's license you encounter? If the hunter has not given you any reason or provacationto suspect him of an infraction why would youstop him and disrupt his hunt?

Does a State Trooper stop every driver he encounters and check hisdrivers license? Iresent this practice as I don't break game laws and give no provacation. To me it appears to be nothing more than aego trip for the Game Warden.

I have yet to be stopped, checked and have the Game warden say something like...Take your boy and go over to such and such area, there are more pheasants there or more deer there. I get the impression that they are merely looking towrit another citation for some trivial mistake on the hunters part.

Since we're on the subject of alleged heavy-handed PGClaw enforcement,what didja think of the Charles Foster lawsuit being dismissed?

For them what don't recall the incident, here's the scenario according to one source:

http://pgchallofshame.com/stories/page15.htm

Interesting Never heard of it.

Why was it dismissed?

We got a new WCO several years ago.He's a younger guy and I never really had much dealing with him until recently.About 4 years ago my buddy was waiting to pick me up on the first day of archery season after I repositioned a stand for the evening hunt.The WCO stopped and checked his lisence.My buddy didn't have anyID so the WCO circled a code on the back of his lisence.Other than that,he gave my buddy no crap and he wasn't the least bit offended.Over the next couple of years this same WCO stopped to check on me as I was heading into or out of the woods a few times.He never once checked my lisence,just stopped to see how I was doing.I have no doubt he was looking me over but he never bothered me.After that, he just waved when he saw my truck.I've gotten to know him a little better over the past couple of months and I like himmore each time I talk to him.This guy has more of a law enforcement mentalityon the surface than others I've met but he's actually a pretty nice guy and very willing to helpif you ask.

You should consider the source. Yes there are many species which occupy this state. I use Deer because that is by far the most hunted animal in our state. Majority of hunters or ex hunters were Deer hunters. Maybe they dabbled in small game or waterfowl, but Deer season was a religion.

How is the PGC responsible for lack of hunters? How about nothing to hunt. Do you really believe that having three tags to fill for so many years didn't have an effect on the herd? Use common sense. When so many people were taking not one, but two doe out of the herd, what do you think happens?

You expect me to get them excited about hunting again? Yeah ok. Any of my kids friends I get involved into shooting as it is part of my line of work. I get them involved in hunting as much as I can.

What I can't do is make the herd bigger to where people don't feel like they are just taking the gun for a walk.

But that is a result of anything in the world other than the PGC.

There are good things and bad things about the PGC. My points have only shed the negative light as most WCO and deputy alike believe that the PGC does no wrong.

ONE FINAL TIME, they are no different than any other enforcing bodies in this country having flaws, made mistakes, bad apples, etc, etc.. the others can atleast man up to any mistakes or problems they had.

R.S.B. wrote this.
"As for all of the horror stories about the abuse of power, that too is just so much BS; we live by the exact same constitutional limitations that every other law enforcement officer in this state lives by. We have no more power then any other law enforcement officer. The only real problem is the one of the public perception that we aren’t real law enforcement officers, but that too is wrong. "

In response I would ask if any one that works for the P.G.C.can explane the Don Madl horror story for me , no abuse of power there was there.No arrests made ! And he is still collecting money from the p.g.c.
Its pretty hard to respect a group when their leader is a scum bag!!!!!!!!.