You're right, I may be a little off, LOL.
I stand correct on your first point. And I agree with your second point:

Last bear season I was talking to a LCO who has been with the PGC for 15+ years. When he goes tothe educational seminars, he never makes it known in class that he works forthe PA-GC. He often overhears comment from others in class degrading the PA deer management. If an example of a poor management practice came up in class, he would hear comments like, "that sounds like a PA policy." Quite frankly, [past] PA deer management has been the laughing stock of the nation.But more importantly, we are now seen as one of the most progressive states.
Hopefully they willbe able to avoid the pressures to keep the deer population artificially high, and will manage with the data.

Sidenote: The LCO indicated that the state game land system in PA is the envy of all the other states.

Probably any government agency/job (especially the politicians') could use some trimming. I haven't looked closely at the PGC finance details.I can't think of any extravagant projects they've wasted money on. In fact, I know of many projects that needed to be done are funded because of a lack of monies. Time for alternate funding, IMHO.


The DCNR and PGC, as I understand, is trying to keep the forest in a hundred-year rotation. In recent years, the PGC has indicated thaey have not been able to harvest the planned amount due to weather and manpower restrictions. Hopefully they'll be able to catch back up soon.

ChuckS

Its not just deer that are mismanaged. Look at small game, namely rabbits and ringnecks.

They need to stock a healthier pheasant in the spring time. By healthier, I'm talking a pheasant that was raised in higher pens so that they roost off of the ground. Even if they stock fewer birds that are raised differently to adapt better to being released. My father and I raised pheasants years ago. Once in a while some would escape and hang around the place for quite a while. I even released some on a farm we hunted. They owner said they came into the bird feeder all winter long until they quit feeding in the spring. We even seen a few hens with young around the house also.

Also release them in the spring so they can maybe nest. There are plenty of areas on state game land with excelent habitat.

I had and idea I mentioned on here before. The PGC needs to print out some plans for building box traps for catching rabbits. Hand out these plans to Boyscouts, sportsmans clubs or interested individuals so they can trap rabbits in early spring.( before they have young)

Where to trap? Inside city limits or areas with lots of rabbits. My brother has a heck of a time with rabbits getting in his garden. He lives in a small town where there is no hunting. We all have heard of or had problems with rabbits in the garden. Look how many we seealong on the road inside these small towns. I'm sure if enough publicity was made, many people may call in to keep rabbits out of their gardens by letting them be traped in the early spring.

Anyway, trap them and release them on state game lands or co-op farms. Heck the PGC could even ear tag a few to see how many are actually taken in the fall. This would not cost the PGC a whole heck of alot, because the participants would be the ones building and checking the traps. All the PGC would do is push to makeit legal and print up trap building instructions. I feel this would be similar to the trap and transfer of turkeys.

Anyway, this is something that needs to be looked into.

I fail to see how the PGC is responsible for the decline of rabbit and pheasant populations.Habitat loss and farming practices are more to blame than anything else.

They need to do more to improve small game hunting.

I see rabbits in town all the time. Looks like top quality habitat there.

But seriously, we have acres and acres of State Game Land. Some ofit in overgrown fields.I think if a " healthier " pheasants and rabbits were stocked they may take hold. If stocked in the spring, they would find enough to eat andfemales may even nest. The PGC can control the farming habits on their property.

I know theyuse to stock some pheasants in the spring years ago. I say forget the put and take stockings and try to help the pheasants reproduce on their own.

From what I've been able to gather, mature bunnies are hard to trap and even harder to transport and have them take hold in another area. If they were easy to trap and transfer, I could supply dozens of the little sonsabeeches from our back yard and the wooded school property out back. No one around here would miss them, except maybe the neighborhood dogs.

[8D]

Waste of time to point out development/habitat/farming practice changes to anyone that has their minds made up that it's the game commission's fault we no longer have oodles of rabbits and ditch chickens to hunt.Most of thelocal land where I hunted small game as aboy,is now occupied by houses and malls and has been for the past 30 years.Most area farms thatstill exist, no longer have fencerows like they did in the 60s.

Near's I can tell, the same people blame the PGCfor everything else too, so why waste time with them? Most seem to have all the answers, even when they ain't even figured out yet what the questions were...Cut more timber; Put lime on it; Let us have all the deer we want and ta hail with everyone else. Sound familiar?

I think your going to see a continued decline in game birds and small game, especially since no one has a handle on the preditor populations.

As far as the Wild Pheasant demise, no the PGCwasn't directly responsible, but they sure couldhave had done a lot better job of monitoring the population decline and reduced the season and bag limits accordingly.

I'm really afraid that mistake is currently being repeated with the Grouse. Harvest numbers are down, yet the seasonlength was increased a year or so back.

In my experience predators seem to be the main culprit.Especially coyotes when it comes to rabbits.
I think habitat comes into play more with the grouse.Even the grouse bilogist for the PGC said proper clearcutting is lacking for good grouse habitat.

The agency is most certainly responsible for the decline in small game. They are obligated to manage for Game. That's their job. One million four hundred thousand (1,400,000) acres are titled "GAME LANDS," not Tweety Bird Lands or Timber Lands!

The agency made only one attempt to do anything to save pheasant hunting by introducing the schuan pheasants. The program failed but through no fault of the PGC. The birds just didn't take. Since that time (90's) the agency never made another effort to reintroduce Wild Birds. Only just recenty have they been MINIMALLY involved with the effort to reintroduce wild birds. The LEADERS of the program are the Tri-County Pheasants Forever Chapter, California University of PA and the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service. Please note the PGC contributes NO MONEY to the program. Cal DuBrock has deliberately neglected to budget for the program.

*It should be noted that the Wild Pheasant Reintroduction Program is enjoying some very real success. Call them "ditch chickens" if you like, but nearly every PA hunter cut his teeth hunting these fine game birds.

Pennsylvania has a Grouse program and a Grouse Study (on the PGC website) that states PA could have grouse numbers that would rival Mich., Minn., and Upstate NY if they would comply with the provenpractices spelled out in the study, most notably successional cuttings. Thestudy is in it's 31st year and as yet has not been implimented in any other area other than the study area (Game lands 176). The PGC doesn't want to talk about the success of this Grouse Study.
HOW LONG DO WE HAVE TO WAIT?

That tells me that the PGC is interested only in a state that hunts deer and turkey. Oh, I forgot about the Lawn Elk.

Say what you want, the facts speak for themselves. This agency and it's current Executive staff aren't the least bit concerned about small game.

Actually they already proved they don't care about deer only about money and getting more of it (raising hunting prices) Yard Elk is just another way to get more money. The deer hunting is being destroyed on all the public lands. I hunted these lands in Elk county for 20 yrs now and I hate seeing such bad management being done. They need to fire all the PGC and all those associated with it and start from scratch and build a true wildlife management agancy that cares more about the wildlife then it does about themselfs. Just my opionoin but thats how it is, PGC is corrupt and the wardens in PA are just as bad by thinking they are some kind of super cops that can go anywhere and do anything they want.

Trytan

"Trytan74" you may yet see your dream of new management within the agency come true. I recently saw an article about Lynn Swann (not to be political, but...) who is a hunter, shooter and fisherman, wherein it stated his observation that the agency is in need of some much needed changes in management and attitude.

I have to agree that the agency (PGC) needs some new faces, new progressive ideas and management techniques intheir executive offices.
What we have nowis stale, stagnant, and ruining our hunting.