Let's face reality in PA
01-03-2006 | 02:12 PM
#61
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RE: Let's face reality in PA
"patrkyhntr" your ignorance is showing. New Jersey Wildlife management Areas are not "hunting preserves." they are every bit as wild and sometimes vast as Pennsylvania Game Lands.
Yes, NJ does breed their own Pheasants but purchases Quail from providers.
Your words..."given the fact that Pennsylvania farms have zero habitat for ringnecks and most of our gamelands are forests?" Pennsylvania has over 200,000 + acres in CRP/CREP. Many farms still do have decent habitat, though not all. Perhaps some of the forest could be cut and cleared and conditioned for small game. All of PA's Game Lands need not be pole timber!
Remember, they are GAME Lands and not TIMBER lands, at least not yet. And, even as Timber the forest has not been managed properly. Each year the agency misses it's stated goal of cutting 1 % of it's timber, thus denying itself of some $10 Million Dollars. And that's been going on for several years. (Go ahead, take your shoes of andcount that up.)
Why not stock more pen raised birds? It's a put and take proposition no matter how the PGCobtains Pheasants. Why not shoot pen raised Hens? They don't propagate as itis now. Even the PGC biologists will tell you that.
Now you tell me why the PGC will not support a Wild Pheasant Re-Introduction Program?
Why does the Tri-County Pheasants Forever Chapter in concert with the US Fish & Wildlife Service and the Calif. University of PA have to do it?
It's a program that would only cost the PGC $35,000 each year for 3 years. Put your shoes back on,... the total cost is $105K.
Let me ask you something; is hunting deer from a tree stand (sometimes tree houses) with scent placed in the area, hunting, or is it simply SHOOTING???
Like I said, come to the meeting or don't you want to face the fact that the agency is grossly mismanaged. (And everybody knows it.)
Yes, NJ does breed their own Pheasants but purchases Quail from providers.
Your words..."given the fact that Pennsylvania farms have zero habitat for ringnecks and most of our gamelands are forests?" Pennsylvania has over 200,000 + acres in CRP/CREP. Many farms still do have decent habitat, though not all. Perhaps some of the forest could be cut and cleared and conditioned for small game. All of PA's Game Lands need not be pole timber!
Remember, they are GAME Lands and not TIMBER lands, at least not yet. And, even as Timber the forest has not been managed properly. Each year the agency misses it's stated goal of cutting 1 % of it's timber, thus denying itself of some $10 Million Dollars. And that's been going on for several years. (Go ahead, take your shoes of andcount that up.)
Why not stock more pen raised birds? It's a put and take proposition no matter how the PGCobtains Pheasants. Why not shoot pen raised Hens? They don't propagate as itis now. Even the PGC biologists will tell you that.
Now you tell me why the PGC will not support a Wild Pheasant Re-Introduction Program?
Why does the Tri-County Pheasants Forever Chapter in concert with the US Fish & Wildlife Service and the Calif. University of PA have to do it?
It's a program that would only cost the PGC $35,000 each year for 3 years. Put your shoes back on,... the total cost is $105K.
Let me ask you something; is hunting deer from a tree stand (sometimes tree houses) with scent placed in the area, hunting, or is it simply SHOOTING???
Like I said, come to the meeting or don't you want to face the fact that the agency is grossly mismanaged. (And everybody knows it.)
01-03-2006 | 02:53 PM
#62
Joined: Mar 2003
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RE: Let's face reality in PA
Wow! And you have the brass to call me ignorant? I hardly know where to begin. If you love New Jersey so much, you should move there. Well, lets start with the following:
"Pennsylvania has over 200,000 + acres in CRP/CREP. Many farms still do have decent habitat, though not all. Perhaps some of the forest could be cut and cleared and conditioned for small game. All of PA's Game Lands need not be pole timber!"
I do love the way you post glittering generalities. Do you know anything about habitat for wild pheasants? I'll wager that I can't find one farm in Franklin County, PA, which by the way used to be polluted with pheasants, quail, woodcock, etc., that would support more than a very few wild pheasants. Pheasants need food and cover. Most of our Franklin County farms are as bare as a baby's behind now. I guess you don't know much about clean farming either. Nor have you toured many gamelands. Try SGL169, near Newville. I don't remember much pole timeber there. You might also try SGL81 along Black Log Mountain. Not sure where you would put pheasants though.
To suggest that game lands have only pole timber is so baseless that it doesn't deserve any response, as was the one about cutting all the forest to raise pheasants. This is the same sort of mental midgetry that wants the forests cut to make more deer so our hunting for them could be easy like we want it to be. Not much of a conservationist, are you? You sure aren't an Aldo Leopold clone.
Another quote: " Remember, they are GAME Lands and not TIMBER lands, at least not yet. And, even as Timber the forest has not been managed properly. Each year the agency misses it's stated goal of cutting 1 % of it's timber, thus denying itself of some $10 Million Dollars. And that's been going on for several years. (Go ahead, take your shoes of andcount that up.)"
Sorry you have to take your shoes off to count over ten. I don't. As to cutting timber, I will quote the great communicator, "There you go again." Cuttng trees seems to be the only suggestion you have. Would you cut trees to make up the shortfall in funding that exists? Cutting more than 1% of the timber would be nice, but not sustainable. There will be some years in which more is cut, and some in which less is. Sometimes this depends upon whether or not a bid is received for the timber. So far, you are batting zero, but don't let that stop you.
Third quote: "Why not stock more pen raised birds? It's a put and take proposition no matter how the PGCobtains Pheasants. Why not shoot pen raised Hens? They don't propagate as itis now. Even the PGC biologists will tell you that."
This is brilliant. Why didn't I think of that? Oh, but I guess you have a source for these pen raised birds that is free? The last time I checked, the "blame" commission cut the amount of stocked birds because they didn't have enough money to keep it up at the same rate. For your information, it costs about $10/bird to stock pheasants so you can have a good time hunting them. How much are you willing to pay for the privilege? And those pen raised birds are so dumb that possums eat most of them.
Another brilliant quote: "Now you tell me why the PGC will not support a Wild Pheasant Re-Introduction Program?
Why does the Tri-County Pheasants Forever Chapter in concert with the US Fish & Wildlife Service and the Calif. University of PA have to do it?
It's a program that would only cost the PGC $35,000 each year for 3 years. Put your shoes back on,... the total cost is $105K. "
I really hate to keep bringing this up, but where does this money come from? Do you have a bunch in that hat you pull rabbits out of? OK. Lets assume that money can be found. Where would you reintroduce those wild birds? It would make no sense whatsoever to put them here in Franklin County, which (did I tell you this before?) used to be prime pheasant country and is now clean farmed. Put you shoes back on.
Still another brilliant observation: "Let me ask you something; is hunting deer from a tree stand (sometimes tree houses) with scent placed in the area, hunting, or is it simply SHOOTING???"
What does this have to do with the cost of this wonderful program you are proposing? Who cares? I don't.
And finally: " Like I said, come to the meeting or don't you want to face the fact that the agency is grossly mismanaged. (And everybody knows it.)"
"Everybody knows it," is the last refuge of those who know nothing themselves. It is amazing that you seem to really believe that eveyone agrees with your narrow view of things. Nothing could be farther from the truth, but again, don't let that stop you. I guess you skipped reading for comprehension in school. I told you I would be out of town at that time. Besides, I have better things to do than to listen to a bunch of whining and griping. If you think you could do a better job of managing this state, run for office and take the place of one of those you consider to be incompetent. I will be certain, however, to write letters to the PAGC stating my position on several issues, just as I have done frequently in the past.
"Pennsylvania has over 200,000 + acres in CRP/CREP. Many farms still do have decent habitat, though not all. Perhaps some of the forest could be cut and cleared and conditioned for small game. All of PA's Game Lands need not be pole timber!"
I do love the way you post glittering generalities. Do you know anything about habitat for wild pheasants? I'll wager that I can't find one farm in Franklin County, PA, which by the way used to be polluted with pheasants, quail, woodcock, etc., that would support more than a very few wild pheasants. Pheasants need food and cover. Most of our Franklin County farms are as bare as a baby's behind now. I guess you don't know much about clean farming either. Nor have you toured many gamelands. Try SGL169, near Newville. I don't remember much pole timeber there. You might also try SGL81 along Black Log Mountain. Not sure where you would put pheasants though.
To suggest that game lands have only pole timber is so baseless that it doesn't deserve any response, as was the one about cutting all the forest to raise pheasants. This is the same sort of mental midgetry that wants the forests cut to make more deer so our hunting for them could be easy like we want it to be. Not much of a conservationist, are you? You sure aren't an Aldo Leopold clone.
Another quote: " Remember, they are GAME Lands and not TIMBER lands, at least not yet. And, even as Timber the forest has not been managed properly. Each year the agency misses it's stated goal of cutting 1 % of it's timber, thus denying itself of some $10 Million Dollars. And that's been going on for several years. (Go ahead, take your shoes of andcount that up.)"
Sorry you have to take your shoes off to count over ten. I don't. As to cutting timber, I will quote the great communicator, "There you go again." Cuttng trees seems to be the only suggestion you have. Would you cut trees to make up the shortfall in funding that exists? Cutting more than 1% of the timber would be nice, but not sustainable. There will be some years in which more is cut, and some in which less is. Sometimes this depends upon whether or not a bid is received for the timber. So far, you are batting zero, but don't let that stop you.
Third quote: "Why not stock more pen raised birds? It's a put and take proposition no matter how the PGCobtains Pheasants. Why not shoot pen raised Hens? They don't propagate as itis now. Even the PGC biologists will tell you that."
This is brilliant. Why didn't I think of that? Oh, but I guess you have a source for these pen raised birds that is free? The last time I checked, the "blame" commission cut the amount of stocked birds because they didn't have enough money to keep it up at the same rate. For your information, it costs about $10/bird to stock pheasants so you can have a good time hunting them. How much are you willing to pay for the privilege? And those pen raised birds are so dumb that possums eat most of them.
Another brilliant quote: "Now you tell me why the PGC will not support a Wild Pheasant Re-Introduction Program?
Why does the Tri-County Pheasants Forever Chapter in concert with the US Fish & Wildlife Service and the Calif. University of PA have to do it?
It's a program that would only cost the PGC $35,000 each year for 3 years. Put your shoes back on,... the total cost is $105K. "
I really hate to keep bringing this up, but where does this money come from? Do you have a bunch in that hat you pull rabbits out of? OK. Lets assume that money can be found. Where would you reintroduce those wild birds? It would make no sense whatsoever to put them here in Franklin County, which (did I tell you this before?) used to be prime pheasant country and is now clean farmed. Put you shoes back on.
Still another brilliant observation: "Let me ask you something; is hunting deer from a tree stand (sometimes tree houses) with scent placed in the area, hunting, or is it simply SHOOTING???"
What does this have to do with the cost of this wonderful program you are proposing? Who cares? I don't.
And finally: " Like I said, come to the meeting or don't you want to face the fact that the agency is grossly mismanaged. (And everybody knows it.)"
"Everybody knows it," is the last refuge of those who know nothing themselves. It is amazing that you seem to really believe that eveyone agrees with your narrow view of things. Nothing could be farther from the truth, but again, don't let that stop you. I guess you skipped reading for comprehension in school. I told you I would be out of town at that time. Besides, I have better things to do than to listen to a bunch of whining and griping. If you think you could do a better job of managing this state, run for office and take the place of one of those you consider to be incompetent. I will be certain, however, to write letters to the PAGC stating my position on several issues, just as I have done frequently in the past.
01-03-2006 | 05:49 PM
#63
Joined: Aug 2005
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RE: Let's face reality in PA
"patrkyhntr" you really need to "Get A Grip." I never realized that Franklin County was that poor a county for small game. Too bad. But I will tell you not to hold you breath waiting for the PGC to improve your county's small game hunting, or the deer hunting for that matter. If you had taken the time to go to the special House Fish & Game Committee meeting last spring you would have heard the chief PGC forester state that they were aiming for 5 deer per square mile or less. I'm sure your in approval. (Stay the course.) But then, you were probably too busy to attend that meeting.
"Would you cut trees to make up the shortfall in funding that exists?" Yes, absolutely! You must know as well as the agency that they have deliberately cut less than their ownstated goal of a full 1 %.Anyone could understand that occuring once in a while, but to have it happen EVERY YEAR for the past 6 or more years isinconcievable. It's called NONFEASANCE!
You keep asking "Where does the money come from?" The question you should be asking is Where did the money go?
Look up the defination of NONFEASANCE, and you'll probably see a group picture of the leaders of the PGC.
As for moving to New Jersey, I'll have to pass as it's just a few miles for me to cross over several of the bridges that connect to NJ, but if I were you, I'd seriously think about relocating to a more game productive county. Franklin appears (by your account) to be burned out with little prospect of recovery any time soon.
"Would you cut trees to make up the shortfall in funding that exists?" Yes, absolutely! You must know as well as the agency that they have deliberately cut less than their ownstated goal of a full 1 %.Anyone could understand that occuring once in a while, but to have it happen EVERY YEAR for the past 6 or more years isinconcievable. It's called NONFEASANCE!
You keep asking "Where does the money come from?" The question you should be asking is Where did the money go?
Look up the defination of NONFEASANCE, and you'll probably see a group picture of the leaders of the PGC.
As for moving to New Jersey, I'll have to pass as it's just a few miles for me to cross over several of the bridges that connect to NJ, but if I were you, I'd seriously think about relocating to a more game productive county. Franklin appears (by your account) to be burned out with little prospect of recovery any time soon.
01-03-2006 | 05:58 PM
#64
Joined: Jan 2006
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RE: Let's face reality in PA
ORIGINAL: patrkyhntr
I would like to be in Harrisburg to hear you propose your new and innovative program to the "Blame" Commission, but a prior committment prevents my being enlightened. I must fly to Reno to attend the SCI convention.
I would like to be in Harrisburg to hear you propose your new and innovative program to the "Blame" Commission, but a prior committment prevents my being enlightened. I must fly to Reno to attend the SCI convention.
01-03-2006 | 06:48 PM
#65
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RE: Let's face reality in PA
"patkryhntr" I forgot to mention, I'll be hunting Pheasants tomorrow in New Jersey. There's a reasonable prospect that we'll at least see a bird or two. Should I bag anything I'll post a photo. We've had a banner year in Jersey this year.
01-03-2006 | 06:49 PM
#66
Thread Starter
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: PA
RE: Let's face reality in PA
As I sit here watching Penn State kick ars
Since we're on pheasants.Any of you guys lucky enough to kill a blue pheasant while they were here?I really wanted to mount one of those birds.I saw a couple driving and hunting but never in season,they were a neat looking bird.
If my memory serves me right they were put here as an experiment to live in the wood lands which obviously didn't happen.Also if I remember right we couldn't get any hens.
Since we're on pheasants.Any of you guys lucky enough to kill a blue pheasant while they were here?I really wanted to mount one of those birds.I saw a couple driving and hunting but never in season,they were a neat looking bird.
If my memory serves me right they were put here as an experiment to live in the wood lands which obviously didn't happen.Also if I remember right we couldn't get any hens.
01-04-2006 | 06:05 AM
#67
Joined: Aug 2005
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RE: Let's face reality in PA
That was the schuan Pheasant Project. It was a great attempt by the PGC to restablish a pheasant population in PA. Unfortunately it failed, but at least the effort was put forth. This current bunch of administrators want to eliminate the whole Pheasant program. They will not financially support a Pheasant Re-Introduction Program being conducted by a coilition of groups that I noted in a previous post. (Read back a few)
It is my opinion that they have designs to manipulate this state into a deer and turkey state. Even those two species have been mismanaged.
It is my opinion that they have designs to manipulate this state into a deer and turkey state. Even those two species have been mismanaged.
01-04-2006 | 10:27 AM
#68
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 39
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RE: Let's face reality in PA
Crazy Horse:
I agree wholeheartedly with your debate regarding pheasants in PA vs. pheasants in NJ. (I moved to NJ in January after spending my entire life in PA.)
I hunted Assunpink WMA for geese last Friday, 12/30. While I was driving to my goose field, I flushed a hen pheasant and a woodcock from on the road. As I sat in my cut corn trying to decoy some geese, I heard multiple roosters crowing in the cover around me. Shots were ringing out everywhere, so it was obvious hunters were seeing lots of birds.
Eventually, I packed up my dekes because I had several rude birdhunters that walked out into my field after they sawI was working a flock of committed canadas. (Unfortunately, there are incosiderate A-holes like them hunting in every state.)
I went home, purchased my pheasant stamp, and returned with my lab and some flouro orange. 3hours later, I had my limit of roosters after flushing 4 cocks and 2 hens.
My brother has two very well trained bird dogs. One is an English setter and the other is a viszla. This year was the absolute worst year he has had for pheasants of PA game lands and Co-op property since 1984. In over 14 outings, I think they bagged a dozen birds. 6 of those birds came from his boys during the youth season.
I think the biggest difference between NJ's management and PA's is in the fact that NJ charges $40 additional for a pheasant & quail stamp. You can not hunt these birds with a general hunting license.
I must say that the $40 was pretty steep, but if that is what it takes to fund a program that allows such a high concentration of birds so late in the season, I'll be the first to chip in my 40 bucks. (Heck, it already costs me over $150 for an out of state PA license, archery stamp and muzzleloader stamp ... another $40 isn't going to kill me.)
Also, the WMA I hunted was very well managed with some standing corn left unharvested, soybeans left with several rows unharvested around the edges, and thick briars and swampland in almost every direction.
I honestly believe that a $40 pheasant stamp in PA would be a good idea ... IF THE MONEY ACTUALLY WENT TOWARDS INCREASING THE NUMBER OF PUT-n-TAKE BIRDS & BETTER COVER MANAGEMENT FOR SMALL GAME. However, in the past, the PGC has had some "accounting irregularities" and these irregularities always seem to result in monies disappearing in thin air rather than being spent to improve conditions for hunters.
- Gr8ful
I agree wholeheartedly with your debate regarding pheasants in PA vs. pheasants in NJ. (I moved to NJ in January after spending my entire life in PA.)
I hunted Assunpink WMA for geese last Friday, 12/30. While I was driving to my goose field, I flushed a hen pheasant and a woodcock from on the road. As I sat in my cut corn trying to decoy some geese, I heard multiple roosters crowing in the cover around me. Shots were ringing out everywhere, so it was obvious hunters were seeing lots of birds.
Eventually, I packed up my dekes because I had several rude birdhunters that walked out into my field after they sawI was working a flock of committed canadas. (Unfortunately, there are incosiderate A-holes like them hunting in every state.)
I went home, purchased my pheasant stamp, and returned with my lab and some flouro orange. 3hours later, I had my limit of roosters after flushing 4 cocks and 2 hens.
My brother has two very well trained bird dogs. One is an English setter and the other is a viszla. This year was the absolute worst year he has had for pheasants of PA game lands and Co-op property since 1984. In over 14 outings, I think they bagged a dozen birds. 6 of those birds came from his boys during the youth season.
I think the biggest difference between NJ's management and PA's is in the fact that NJ charges $40 additional for a pheasant & quail stamp. You can not hunt these birds with a general hunting license.
I must say that the $40 was pretty steep, but if that is what it takes to fund a program that allows such a high concentration of birds so late in the season, I'll be the first to chip in my 40 bucks. (Heck, it already costs me over $150 for an out of state PA license, archery stamp and muzzleloader stamp ... another $40 isn't going to kill me.)
Also, the WMA I hunted was very well managed with some standing corn left unharvested, soybeans left with several rows unharvested around the edges, and thick briars and swampland in almost every direction.
I honestly believe that a $40 pheasant stamp in PA would be a good idea ... IF THE MONEY ACTUALLY WENT TOWARDS INCREASING THE NUMBER OF PUT-n-TAKE BIRDS & BETTER COVER MANAGEMENT FOR SMALL GAME. However, in the past, the PGC has had some "accounting irregularities" and these irregularities always seem to result in monies disappearing in thin air rather than being spent to improve conditions for hunters.
- Gr8ful
01-04-2006 | 12:29 PM
#69
Joined: Aug 2005
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RE: Let's face reality in PA
"Gr8ful Deer" I just got back from Medford. We didn't find any birds. Pleanty of heavy deer rubs in the woods though.
I used to hunt Assunpink for Pheasant and Ducks on Assunpink Lake back in the 80's with some pretty good success.
Pennsylvania hasn't got a clue as to how a decent Pheasant (Put & Take) Program should work. We think that our $20 License is some kind of jewel. Well, $20 of NOTHING is still NOTHING.
That $40 Pheasant & Quail Stamp was worth every nickle. My freezer is full of Quail & Pheasants and I'm ashamed to tell you how many birds I missed.
I used to hunt Assunpink for Pheasant and Ducks on Assunpink Lake back in the 80's with some pretty good success.
Pennsylvania hasn't got a clue as to how a decent Pheasant (Put & Take) Program should work. We think that our $20 License is some kind of jewel. Well, $20 of NOTHING is still NOTHING.
That $40 Pheasant & Quail Stamp was worth every nickle. My freezer is full of Quail & Pheasants and I'm ashamed to tell you how many birds I missed.
01-04-2006 | 01:53 PM
#70
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: SW PA USA
RE: Let's face reality in PA
The $40 for a pheasant stamp would be a great idea,so long as the $40 goes specifically for birds and habitat improvement. Our gang spends nearly double that for an annualone day deal at the local Pheasant preserve. Either way, it's stocked birds butanything less canned would be desirable. Lets face it,we might as well hunt elephants as hunt wild ringnecks here! Just about tthe same odds of seeing either one! Oh,and dont charge the kids for a pheasant stamp till age 17.Just keep the youth hunt going as it is. It's one of the few success stories around here.