We were having a discussion among fellows who love to hunt.One is worried about getting his son interested in hunting and the other is grandson.We were talking about the days we hunted when there were rabbits and pheasants everywhere.Land open to hunting was not a problem in those days.There were plenty of grouse in the woodlands and you would see plenty of deer on stateland.One guy hunted in Perry county and the other in Potter for rifle this year.Between the two of them they saw one tail.These guys are good experienced hunters.
The point I'm getting to is this.Some say hunting today is better then the "good old days" but I disagree.The pheasants are gone,deer numbers pathetically low on public hunting grounds,rabbits are down in numbers,grouse continue to decline,and there's alot less land open to hunting.I can understand how today's hunter is worried about getting their kids involved in the sport.
The only game animals up in populations are turkey and bear.Then again they are now questioning whether or not too many bears were killed this year.And turkeys aren't the ideal game to start a kid out in hunting.
We're bucking the trend in PA.While license sales saw a big drop this year nationwide hunting license sales actually increased.

Well lets face reality everywhere! here in Nh the same exact is happening! they are building everywhere. although i think i have seen more deer checked in this year than i can remember i think the reason for that is because the deer are restricted to smaller pieces of land making them easier to stumble accross! some or close to all of my favorite hunting spots are now houses it is really depressing! I used to love pheasant hunting, all of nh pheasant are stocked which makes them weird to hunt and two ofthe beautifull stocking sites that were local are gone. one is a golf course now and the other is a farm that is now closed and will soon be houses! I have been in nh for 15 years and have seen 2 wild rabbits the grouse are getting almost non existant the turkeys have made a huge comeback but they dont like people hunting them in peoples front yards! heeehee Some people blame the small game #'s on coyotes, which is true but they are kinda hard to hunt if they are hanging out in neihborhoods where we cant get them!!! houses are going everywhere and it is not good. NH used to be such a beautiful place with some great hunting but it is starting to look like the suburbs of boston.

Sorry to hear that browning.It's a darn shame.
Besides developement clean farming practices and predators have dwindled our smallgame populations.

Thanks for saying it germain. I totally agree

Quality habitat is a major factor in all the animals discussed. With out good habitat you won't have wildlife. There's a recent study on snowshoe rabbits and their decline due to habitat change. Same can be said for grouse, cottontails, deer, pheasants.

all of you guys from pa cannot be wrong. I thought at first you were just complaining, but nearly EVERYONE from pa is saying this. I use to live in se pa in bucks co before antler restrictions. honestly, I think what they did with wma vs regions/counties is ridiculous. the doe tag situation is out of control. I use to see a ton of deer in bow there. you are right too, you have to be heir to some throne to get permission on private land anymore. va is getting bad too. I think that the deer population here is alright. they need to do something about the size of the bucks shot though, some sort of antler restrictions. I have permission from a few friends for private land, but go off of that, and there are hunters everywhere. in pa, you use to just be able to walk up, say hello, tell thelandowner where you lived, and ask permission. I remember getting like a 70% 'yes you can hunt'. now, it's hard to muster the courage. my dad has gotten a buddy of mine that lives near him permission. some folks have had it with the deer in some areas. still don't get that whole doe tag allocation. yeesh.

T, where I hunt in the North Centralit is largly a mix of ag land and woods, with plenty of cover, I understand your point about habitat in the big woods, but I can't figure out why the population of rabbits, deer, grouse, are so far down in this area with the good mix of ag and woods, and strip minds?? To me, the food and cover is here!! I also hunt posted land in the Southeast where the land owner wants the deer controlled, however this task is impossible on their 10 acres because the bounding landowners don't allow hunting. Just my 2 cents.




My last statement in my opinion is why the current WMU's will never work!!

Hunting is different today, Germaine, but it is still hunting. When I grew up, small game was everywhere. I cut my teeth on pheasants, rabbits, and squirrels in the 1950's. Of course things are different today on the farms we used to hunt. If the farm is still a farm and hasn't sprouted houses, the farming methodology is a far cry from what it used to be. A cornfield this time of year is as bare as a baby's behind. There is nothing for a self-respecting pheasant to eat or hide in. Fencerows are gone. Where are the quail? Check the fencerows. The quail are where they are. Rabbits are plentiful, but only in areas that you can't hunt them. I got two yesterday in my backyard with the .22. I live in the country, but housing developments are making my six acre spread an island in a sea of houses.

Now, as to the deer hunting, yes it is different than it was ten years ago, but let me give you some idea of my experiences over fifty years. I started hunting in 1954 at the age of 12. I killed my first deer, a doe in doe season, in 1964. My first buck, a spike, was taken in Cameron County in 1968. Occasionally I would get lucky and draw a doe license, which was incredibly easy to fill if I drew one. Does and fawns were everywhere, but rack bucks were really scarce. One buck season opener in Black Log Valley, I saw over fifty deer. None had antlers. Of course seeing deer is fun, and it keeps one interested, but I would still rather see one nice rack buck than ten does. My second buck was also a spike, taken in 1972. During all of this time, I hunted everytime I had available. Nearly every evening in archery season and every Saturday. We got the first day of buck season off, so I could hunt then.

Our first season hunting out of our present cabin was 1987. Our cabin is located near state gamelands, and we hunt almost exclusively on that gamelands, but also on unposted land bordering it with permission of the owners. The owners are very free in giving such permission. We hunted there three years before anyone took a buck. I got my first one from the land around the cabin, state gamelands, in 1991. It was a six point. We saw lots of does, but as usual, very few bucks. The doe tag allotment got a bit more liberal by then, and we usually drew one, so we were taking does for meat. I have a record of every year we hunted at the cabin, who killed what, and during what season. From 1987 through 2000, we took a total of 19 deer. Only eight of them were bucks, and only one was an eight point. This averages out to less than two deer per year, with four guys and sometimes guests hunting an average of three days of rifle season and perhaps six to eight days in archery season. We also usually hunted the entire week after Christmas in flintlock season. That was the good old days.

Since the year 2000, we have taken fifteen deer. This is an average of three per season with four to five hunters hunting out of the cabin at most. Here is the breakdown. Please note that in 2001, no deer at all were taken. If you are interested, there are reasons for this, but they have nothing to do with whether or not deer were there.
2001-no deer taken.
2002-3 does
2003-two does, and one six point buck (first year of AR).
2004- two does, and two bucks (both six points)
2005-four does and two bucks. One 4-point (youth hunter) and one 8-point.

The absolute best year we have had hunting out of the cabin in the 18 years in which we have owned it was this past year, Germaine. We had two kids hunting with us this year. They seem to have little trouble maintaining interest in hunting, but I'll grant you, these two aren't typical kids.

The average kid raised in the suburbs or cities today has plenty of stuff to do that doesn't require both patience and lots of physical effort. He can sit in front of his TV and watch programs and be entertained without lifting a finger except to stuff his face or work the remote. He can play endlessly with his game boy. Lots of music to listen to. What does the woods have to offer than can compete in excitement with Grand Theft Auto? Still, most years I can find a kid to take out hunting, and most of them end up being hunters after the age of 21. That is another story for another time.

It is true that the future of hunting is the youngsters of today. What example do we set for them if all we do is gripe about how terrible hunting is today? They start out with a defeatist attitude. While it is true that there are few deer in the northwoods, some friends of mine who have cabins there tell me that turkeys are abundant. Grouse are there, but hunting them is always tough. I took four this fall and worked my butt off for them, since the best grouse hunting is in the old gypsy moth cover at the top of the mountain. I can always take a kid out for squirrels. there seem to be just as many of the old tree rats as ever. Pheasant hunting is a thing of the past. Even the stocked birds hold little interest to me, but I usually manage to get in one day with a bird dog. Sometimes it is at a preserve, which pales in comparison to the bird hunting in the 1960's.

Yes, hunting is different today, germaine. We might as well face facts. In some ways, it is better. In some ways not as good. It is still hunting, and I love doing it.

Over the years, I've agreed and strongly disagreed with things the PGC has done in managing our wildlife.

The one thing I've noticed is that they have ALWAYS been slow to change but even SLOWER to correct obvious mistakes.

They now admit that their method of estimating deer populations "may" be flawed. In the meantime they happily continue on this course.

No plans to adjust doe tags in 2G, no plan to bring the timber cutting up to the sustainable 1% per year, no plan to fine tune WMU's,and no real plan to attempt to open Sunday hunting.

Oh, and noreal survival plan forwhen license sales and revenue drop even further.

Anterless tags were cut by 40% in 2G last year. Look for more cuts this coming year.

PCG cannot do anything about this until the state legislators give them the authority. Sunday hunting is all under the state legislators.