"What is happening too Remington?"

Gotta hour? lol I think you can sum it up with one easy statement: Welcome too the world of sellouts doing to much business for their own good, especially with such likes as Wal-Mart.

I can't state it any easier than that. To be fair, I don't think ALL of Remington's guns are questionable or their quality has gone "down the crapper" across the board. They still make some decent "good guns" like the BDLs, CDLs, Model 7s, Special Purpose's etc... But man when they build a cheap gun brother they build a CHEAP GUN!!! [:@] And IMHO it began when they started the "Express" model shotguns that they first built for discounters, namely Wal-Mart. They continued into the 700s with revamped ADL synthetics which featured the same "parkerization" that is featured on the Express shotguns. I hope the new SPS 700s are better in that respect than their predecessors the ADLs. That is THE sorriest finish I have EVER seen on a major production company firearm. The finish is so weak that a simple nylon guncase will rub it off and the gun will begin to rust quickly with only light use. Likewise the fit and finish of such guns is deplorable as well. They feel like the plethora of cheap Turkish and former Eastern Bloc country imports that are flooding the markets now.

That cheapness also extends into the plastic parts being used in the guns, particularly trigger assemblies that are featured on such guns. I can't see the justification for saving only $200-$400 on the purchase of say a shotgun when buying a Special Purpose will yeild a gun that can be handed down too ones heirs. While the Express' wont last long enough to even allow those heirs to learn to shoot on the same gun that you did! [:'(] Again I ask, "Is their lower price of admission worth it in the end?"

My first rifle was a 700ADL. That was back in the mid 80s and obviously before the synthetic stocks and that ghastly parkerization finish. The old ADLs simply were BDLs with cheaper stocks that didnt feature a mazagine floorplate or fancy checkering. But the metals, finishes and trigger assemblies were the exact same as the higher priced models.

Quality Control has REALLY taken a severe nosedive at Remington over the last few years. The latest example I have happened within the last 2 months. Case in point. I had a customer come in and buy a 597 (17HMR) laminated stock. We rigged it up with scope, laser boresighted it, sold him a couple boxes of ammo and he was going to go straight too the field to shoot it after he cleaned it up a little. He came back later that afternoon with a nasty mark on his arm and a blown up rifle for his troubles! [:-] I wouldn'tve believed it had I not seen it for myself. The VERY FIRST shot in the rifle caused all kinds of havoc. The bolt froze shut, the ejection arm blew out of the bolt (which was the cause of his wound on the arm) and more unbelievable the laminated stock SPLIT at the pistol grip. About 4 layers just seperated! It looked like you tried to drive a hatchet through the stock. Amazingly he wasn't all that mad and simply wanted a new rifle (how many in todays world would've gotten a lawyer before the rifles report was silent?) and to be on his way again. We replaced his rifle, re-rigged it and sent him on his way. I just would not have believed a simple rimfire could've caused that much damage too itself.

We sent the rifle back too Remington and told them what happened. They sent us a brand new replacement a few weeks later (which was a rediculous amount of time if you ask me!). Then after we got the new rifle back it was recieved by our recieving department (non-hunters and non-gun guys who simply aren't into anything other than doing the 9-5 thing everyday, so unless something is laying in two pieces or obviously abused they continue "business as usual" with receiving.) As I took the rifle from the box and was putting it in a display rack I noticed several small dings in the stock that looked like it had been dropped in gravel or something. The metal was clean though so I cant explain the stock being so banged up. Upon closer inspection AGAIN I noticed seperation in the laminate. Not nearly as obvious as with the case of the blown up rifle, but seperation none the less, through about 3 layers or wood on this one. How ANYONE could've let such a gun go in such condition from the factory is simply beyond my comprehension. It speaks VERY poorly of Big Greens QC and their attention too detail.

The gun was factory sealed in their typical cardboard box with molded styrofoam cradle so I know it wasn't damage done by UPS while in transit. This gun left the factory in such shape. Again thats just one of the latest cases I have with regards too them.

Mark my words, Wal-Mart and Remingtons obsession to supply them at no regards too cost (meaning they are over producing based on their capacity) will be the death of them if they dont do something and do it quick. On the present course I give them 5 years MAX before their name becomes mud among the general gunowning public. Bankrupcty could be a REAL possibility for them within the next decade on their present course!

It urks me too no end that the biggest name in American gunmaking is headed for such a catastrophe if they dont pay attention!
RA

After reading all this I wasn't going to post anything but what the heck, I'll just tick everybody off. This thread should have been "what's happened to Remington, Winchester, Ruger, Savage and on and on. Tikka has barrels blowing up....thanks alot Beretta....you can't find decent wood on much of anything anymore. We have allowed the manufactures to cut costs by purchasing plastic and laminates instead of steel and wood. All the parts are stamped, triggers are so bad, they make the rifle nearly unshootable. Stocks have so much lacquer on them they look like plastic (or none at all). I'm making myself sick. I am 59 years young and still remember the old Sako's, Steyrs, Parker Hales, Winchesters, Rugers and Remingtons when these rifles were tack driving works of art. Ah the good old days. This is the reason that I collect and shoot older guns. I guess Kimber may be the exception.....anybody had any experience with them??? And finally, the super magnums are out....oh boy are they ever fun to shoot...once! Regards, Rick.

Remington is what happen to Remington. We can not blame Walmart or any other discount store chain for lack of quality. I also want to ask this question does this mean the Remington 870 express I can buy at Walmart is lesser in quality than the 870 express selling at the local gun shop, because Walmart is selling it for $30 less?? Now one thing I will agree is that you will not see very many higher end Remingtons for sale at your discount stores, and are usually exclusive to that of you smaller gun stores.

One thing is an ABSOLUTE FACT!!!

"If" "no one" was buying the junk, they'd soon QUIT makeing it!!!!

Drilling Man

THAT is the bottom line DM.

I agree DM. I started this post and I think you finished it. That is, in fact, the bottom line, and i'm doing my part.

I just bought one of those cheap savages in .204 funny my wife didnt think it was cheap. after sighting in and breaking in I fired 10 shots at 100yds, the group,well you wouldnt belive me if I told you.I really like this cheap rifle.

CBASS I will not tell you that one Express is any different than another Express because they aren't. They are EXACTLY the same gun and in fact the Express was actually created in the late 80s for the big discount stores by Rems then owner DuPont. But they sold so many that soon smaller dealers and all the wholesalers began demanding them. BUT trust me on this, they are NOT a Special Purpose. But, they aren't marketed as a replacement too the SPS' while in fact they DO canabalize sales from Rems higher end gun sales. Like I said, I personally think that the Express series of guns ushered in a new era of poor quality acceptance for Remington, especially for their current "bottom line and all costs concerned" ownership. Sure it might have helped them through the 90s but at what cost? What good is a decade of greed if it costs you a centuries old company in the long run?

As for the other guns, I don't agree that ALL makers are building poor firearms. Sure Savage's finish is cheap and poor but their guns are more accurate and better now than ever before in their history! As for Ruger, I likewise don't see where their quality has diminished. Weatherby's quality isn't down either, I just think that Roy's marketing and Roy Jr.s style are/were two entirely different models. As for Kimber, their guns are EXCELLENT. It's their dealer support and employee mindset that I have problems with. Tikka is an GREAT rifle and using that one batch of bad steel as an excuse to dismiss ALL their guns is simply childish. Beretta DID handle that incident lastyear perhaps differently than we would "hope" an American manufacturer would have. But I think that incidence points too two things. First, Beretta is STILL a typically arrogant european corporation. Thats the way MANY such companies think and operate over there. Secondly, perhaps it's indicative of our overly litigious society here in modern day America. Out of the THOUSANDS of pieces of product that was produced only a few were found bad and performed other than as designed. In Europe (and elsewhere outside of the U.S.) thats understood as a possibility and sometimes accepted. No one was really hurt btw. I think we "sue somebody just because" American's were to quick to rush too judgement and wanted our fears and worries turned too monetary damages via the courts. Had I owned one of the handful of Sako/Tikka rifles effected by the recall and I had already had one blowup in my face and escaped with only a bruised ego, then I would only expect a new rifle as compensation from the company. NOT hauling them into court and playing, "What if???" as is today's norm.

Nuff said,
RA

I have to say that I have never own a Bolt rifle from remington. Had a nice 870 wing master once. I will say this,The stamped out 1100s and the 742s and 7400 would make better Boat paddles that hunting Rifles. Got turned away from Remington after those rifles. Spent more time getting them un hung, than shooting them. They also make great rattleing sounds if you shake them. If it were not for them, I might have tried a 700. Just my 2 cents.

Due to the experience I had with my last 700 I've had absolutely no desire whatsoever to own another Remington of any sort. The only Remington I currently own is a 542 (I think that's right) automatic .22 rifle that my grandfather left me when he died back in the early 70's. If it didn't have so much sentimental value to me I might have sold it a long time ago.