You missed my point, Grantwwod. The Cdl is a great looking weapon, but if you stack it up against a 70's-80's vintage Bdl, what I'm talking about becomes apparent. Remington is a fine weapon, just not the same as they used to be.

i agree i think they are getting to worried about they "cost" and makeing rifles of less quailty.
if i had it my way they would drop the 710. keep making the SPS the way they are "so they have a less expensive decent quailty gun" and take all their other rifles and do the extra small things that makes them as good as they used to be. even if it cost $100 more.

who ever said that the ruger triggers are better are full of it. now if you bought a new remington and a new ruger, the ruger is going to be a better quailty gun. however i don't like buying a new gun and then haveing to spend 100 more for a trigger. if ruger would ever take the time to put decent tiggers in their guns they would be #1 by far

Killer 243. You are right on there. When you buy a ruger rifle you better be thinking of addind 60.130.00 into a trigger job or a new trigger. The last three Ruger rifles that I have picked up wre basically un-shootable without trigger work. I have found a Good smith that does the trigger for about 40-60 dollars and can make them decent. It unexcusable to put out a product that has to go to the shop on the way home. I love the sturdy build and overall quality other than the trigger.

So far I have seen no real problems with Remington products. My new Remingtons seem to shoot and handle about like the older ones.

I will settle it go buy a charles daly mauser 98, you can do the trigger yourself from about 1.5 to 4.5 pounds

Frizzellr I couldn't have said it better.I'm sure Remington is still making some decent rifles, Not the same quality they were 20 years or so ago.I know I would be a proud owner if I could only get my hands on a 710.Or a 597 for that matter.

Ruger Redhawk

I own the following Remingtons:

2 870 Express shotguns (3 years)
1 870 Express youth shotgun (2 years)
1 710 (1 year, maybe 100 rounds through it)
1 597 (2 years, couple thousand rounds through it)

All shoot fine and I've had no problems from any of them (no parts falling off, no rattling parts, etc.) except that the magazines for the 597 are crappy. So I don't know what the so-called "problem" is with Remington that is being discussed. None of these are show pieces, but for someone who has 2 kids that like to hunt, it's nice to have firearms that don't cost $500+.

Just my experience.

I'm going to start by saying, i haven't bought a "new" Ruger 77 or a "new" 700 Rem. in many years!!! BUT, here's why i still have 700's and no 77's..

I never liked Ruger triggers!!! 700's were always easy to ajust where you wanted them!!

I never liked the way Ruger 77 long actions were a bit "shorter" that the 700 long actions!! When you bought a 77 in a mag. cal., you always ended up haveing seat the bullets deeper to keep the noses from getting all beat up!!!

I never liked the way the bottom of the Ruger 77 receivers are made, because they are so much harder to bed that a 700!!! This is a big deal to me!!!

AND, when i was buying them, there's absolutely no question that Rem. sent there 700's out with better, smoother bbls. than Ruger did!! Rems "always" out shot Rugers!!!

I use to shoot bench rest, and it would be all Rems. winning out on the line, no one shot a Ruger!! WHY???? Because you'd never win with one!!!! Some tried, but soon they had a Rem. too!!!

Drilling Man

I've been a Remngton fan all of my life and all of my centerfire rifles are Remingtons.

I'm planning on a caribou hunt this fall and wanted to buy a stainless steel 300 Win for the hunt. I looked at the new SPS rifles and was shocked at how shoddy they looked. They looked like they were made at the lowest bid third world nation that Remington could get under contract.

I was able to order a 700 BDL stainless steel from WAL Mart that was still in stock and it's a beautiful rifle. The 700 SPS can't even begin to compare to the older 700 BDL SS.

All I can figure out is that Remington (who sells 20% of it's total production to WAL Mart) is lowering it's price points to the point they are producing junk for the sake of a cheap price. Long-term, it would appear to be a strategy that wil bring them grief

remingtons always outshoot rugers thats a bunch of b.s. if i ever heard any

"IF" you are refering to MY post, then you need to read it again!!!!

Did i say Remingtons always outshoot Rugers????? NO i didn't.

Drilling Man