emtrescue6

Don't believe that I said that...or that shot placement wasn't critical for all ethical kills...what I said is that it was more critical when using small calibers...

Topgun 3006

RR---I already stated that I don't go below my .243 on deer and that covers 60 years of hunting, so I don't know why you even made that last post referring to me with that redundant question. I really could care less how many deer you've shot with a .223 because the fact is that the caliber was not designed with the ft/lbs of energy generally mentioned for deer hunting. You even stated in your post that "it's not the best, but adequate" and that's basically what I'm saying when you can go with bigger calibers that are designed for the job! It's sort of like your long distance shooting just to show yourself it can be done and telling others how great you are at it when all it is doing is increasing the chances of a miss or, even worse, a wounding shot. As far as a couple people relating arrows to centerfire calibers and saying that they kill the same way shows they know absolutely nothing about what they are discussing!

nchawkeye

Guys, all most of us do when we shoot deer are bust the lungs...Typically we might break a rib going in but after that there is very little resistance...

Back in the early 70s, when still in my teens and before I had ever heard of a designated deer rifle I used a 22-250 to kill deer coming into our peanut fields in eastern NC...I killed dozens of deer through the summer months doing so with no problems and this was with bullets designed for varmints...

Now that we have bullets like Nosler Partitions designed for deer, pass throughs with a good exit wound are very common...My niece has killed a couple of dozen with a 22-250 and the Federal Premium Nosler Partitions...Most have fallen to high shoulder shots...I've cleaned more than half of these deer for her...They make a mess of a deer's lungs and her lung shot deer fall just as quickly as those shot with a .270...

Plenty of fellows down here have a .223 or 22-250 for target shooting, varmit hunting and also reload...They can group inside of 3/8 inch at 100 yards and do a job on groundhogs in the summer months...

During deer season they take a couple of does with their groundhog rifles...They are not really deer hunters and many just have a couple of box stands build in the back pasture, maybe put out a little corn and kill a couple of deer for the freezer...They have no need for a larger gun as the one they own does what is needed...

.22 centerfires have been used for decades to kill deer...With the newer, harder bullets in the 60-65 grain weight they now give more reliable pass throughs...The popularity of using .22 centerfires is actually the reason companines developed these bullets...If their was no demand, there would be no market...

They are also very effective and reliable as deer killers, as Fritz has demonstrated.....

Topgun 3006

RR---Back at ya because just because you say or do something doesn't mean you know squat of what you speak about! After 60 years I HAVE learned lots and that's why I don't do what you espouse! Furthermore, you are in the vast minority of hunters when discussing both of these subjects! Now you're trying to relate a 30-06 to a friggin .223 is laughable at best! No more needs to be said by either of us because we obviously differ severely on both subjects and will just have to agree to disagree! Sorry I haven't been on here for awhile to "discuss" things with you, but I was on an 11 week, three state hunting trip for deer, elk, antelope, and pheasants! Incidentally, the antelope I got made B&C and was shot with my .243 Sako at less than 100 yards when I could have shot him at 600, but don't see any fun in that. What have you been up to lately besides telling everyone on here how far you can shoot and how many deer you've shot?

VAhuntr

I don't have a dog in this fight but how can your success rate be over 100%?????? Sorry, I just had to ask!

Topgun 3006

That last post to me is about as stupid as some of the other crap you come up with. It's pretty hard to hunt 4 different species in 3 different states in a week when the seasons are all at different times over a two month period, LOL! I also don't go out to just shoot any friggin thing I see, but rather like to take my time to enjoy the scenery, etc., rather than just going out to shoot something ASAP. I also didn't say I could have shot that goat at 600 yards with the .243, as I also had my 25-06 and a 30-06 along on the trip and would have used the 25-06 for that longer shot. Of course you'll probably now say that your .223 would have probably still been better for that yardage than the 25-06 too! However, I like the spot/stalk technique much more than banging away at something that you can't even see without good optics/magnification. Geez, I think I just got in another gouge, LOL! The END!!!

VAhuntr

OK, wasn't thinking about it that way.

On a side note I have been researching the ballistics of the .223 as a deer round this evening. I must admit to being quite surprised at the numbers....even in factory loads.

ruffryder1221

The .223 works, just has a small sweet spot on deer. If you go too big though, the sweet spot gets small too, because almost anywhere you hit there will be damage to the meat. Personally, I prefer a 25-06, its just the right mix of knockdown power, speed, and trajectory for me. But I've shot deer with a .243, 300 win mag, .308, .223, 30-06, they all work, and everyone's preference is personal. I prefer to big over too small, because I would rather waste meat than leave an animal wounded and alive.

zrexpilot

sorry but deer dont even require a premium boolit, out of any caliber.

Topgun 3006

"sorry but deer dont even require a premium boolit, out of any caliber."

On that I can agree 100% if it's of the proper caliber for the animal. Many are buying into these expensive premium bullets for deer and antelope when you really don't need them until you get into the bigger elk and moose size critters. Then a bonded bullet of the proper weight for caliber is preferred for good penetration before complete expansion occurs. I have no idea where the 500 ft/lbs of energy on deer came from in RR's posts, but I have always agreed with the old timer experts that felt the stats of 1000 ft/lbs at POI on deer and 1500 ft/lbs on elk and moose is what should be strived for and that is the main reason I frown on anything under a .243 at reasonable yardages be used for deer.