He has never even owned one, he is just taking stuff seriously from other forums. Which makes me laugh.

True that.

I have to admit. Out of all the guns, the biggest gimic out there is T/C encore. In the end, you got a pokesalker for 7 bills with an action twice as weak as a bolt. Insane. Can't say much, I fell for it.

This discussion is proof that you can find statistics to support any argument.

This type of argument cannot be solved by internet poll data. There's a reason why people choose they way they do and it's usually because it's all they know.

The 700 is more than an adequate rifle. Doesn't make it a great rifle. Doesn't make it without fault etc....

There is something to be said for when the designer of a rifle trigger speaks out about his own design being flawed and everyone just turns a blind eye...including Remington Inc.

Proof again folks don't want to admit they have made a mistake or been had or what ever.

Tom

I used to think their model 700's were great rifles. Then I heard the designer (now retired) of that rifle admit that there has been a known problem with a certain % of these rifles safety mechanisms from nearly the start. When the safety is pushed of the rifle has fired without any pressure or even touching the trigger in a certain % of the rifles. No way to tell which might do this, until it happens. (I know, you've never had it happen with yours. But all it takes is a small % that do and a tragedy is just around the corner.)
It may be a small % of the rifles that have this problem. But I'd hate to end up with one that does. Remington's top Exec under tremendous pressure and evidence finally admitted in legal deposition that this is true. Their solution... a campaign to never point the rifle in a direction that might shoot someone. Duhhh! Of course, but you never want a firearm to discharge on it's own either!!
Remington never recalled the 700 models safety assemblies, because the cost to do so has gone from what would originally been a few cents parts + labor 40-50 years ago to several hundred $ per rifle now. Trying to cover up problems and hope no one notices never is the right choice.

This sounds totally believable??? I bet you can produce tons of links and news articles to back it up?? What did you say the guys name was?:confused: How much did he have to drink?:confused: How much did you have to drink? :confused: I call bull crap on this story!! LM*AO!!

I didn't watch it, but there was apparently a show on CNBC about this with these people being interviewed. So it's not like he just pulled it out of his ****.

Maybe he pulled it out of your ***************

This so called safety problem has exisited for years, People have even sued Remington for it. If you make a product and sell a butt load of it, there is always going to be someone that trys and sue you. There will also be a precentage of product failures. There has to be. No product can be made perfect. I have owned a ton of their rifles and my friends have owned a ton of them, none of us have ever had a problem. Is there a tiny pecentage of them out there that has a problem, there has to be.

When someone does something stupid, like shooting their rifle accidently, the first thing they do is blame the product. This is where most of this BS comes from. It's human nature.

Remington has sold so many more rifles than any other manufacturer, they have to top the list of these so called product failures. It's a math thing.

Debate is Healthy ~ you guys get into a Flaming match is not! And watch your language!

JW

Heh heh heh, noted!!:party0005:

It is now public knowledge straight from the designers mouth that their has been a problem and will continue to be a problem. I agree that no product is made perfect. But when a design flaw like this can
make the gun fire I say it's serious. They have knowledge from the start.Like I said I like their 700 model but would not trust that company to assemble it and sell to me.

Pay the inventor of the wheel enough$$$, hell say its flawed. Dont belive everything you see on the ****box will ya? if CNBC ran a "investigative special" about the sky being blue, Id discount the findings. Dont you people realize that CNBC and the rest of the mainstream media, is anti gun and their reporting is baised at best? why would you take them seriously???:bash:

For the ??? time, the trigger problem is due to improper adjustment. (i know cause ive done it) Its not the design.

Watch the video's...http://www.remington700.tv/#/home then read the statements of the people and department's that had the "incidents" on cnbc...http://remington700.tv/pdf/Remington10-29-10.pdf. Unqualifed people modifing their rifles and mishandling isn't remington's fault.

I heard what I heard straight from the desingners mouth.
I don't care who investigated what or who paid who.
I am not gonna get my ass sued for knowingly using a factory assembled
piece of equipment that is faulty.It is as simple as that.
If the designer says it's flawed I'm not taking your word that it isn't.

Thanks a ton stapher. Thanks for posting. That was a lot of things I suspected but have never read. It's funny how gun owners and hunters would turn on a company that has given us such a great product, or should I say products on the word of a bunch of LIBTARDS!!

Remington has always been my favorite rifle but after reading the response to the false alligations, I may never buy anything else. Just the fact that the Libtards are attacking them, makes believe they are even a better company than I knew.

Remington has always been a pillar of the shooting community and hopefully they always will be. They have armed the men and women that protect us at home and around the world. I believe they are a committed company that wants to provide a superior product for a fair price.

Did you bother to read Remintons reponses that stapher posted for you to read. I don't think you guys are stupid, I just think you will believe anything you hear or read from a stinking Libtard that wants to take all of your gun rights away. They are attacking one of the best companies(if not the best) in order to make all guns look bad.

So the fact that it comes from a bias source means nothing to you ...OK The guy probably made more $ saying it was flawed than he did for actually inventing it. It doesnt mean diddly squat.

I dont give a rats azz if remington sells another 700 ever, nor do I care what anyone here shoots, im just saying dont believe everything you see on TV, actually dont believe ANYTHING.

I saw both sides, have them on my favorites on You Tube.
Remington has some good points. But the fact remains Remington has settled out of court and lost court battles. Guilty....If you are innocent
you would owe zilch and cleared of all allegations in the court of law and I be on their side pleading their innocence with you.I don't care about after the facts in court battles.
Remington has been found guilty and has had to pay.
Until Remington puts out a good factory product that is reliable and safe, I won't by a factory assembled Remington 700.

I don't believe everything I read or see. I'm not gonna start guessing and money he recieved if any.I know what he said.Remington interview with him in response to CNBC didn't convince me beyond a shadow of a doubt their was nothing wrong with the design to begin with. Remington did blow that other guys testimony out of the water
when they showed that he purchased a Remington. But the court settlements and losses speek for themselves. Remington needs better Lawyers to overturn these cases to convince me otherwise.

I think it's strange that the man who "lost his son to Rem700", and has such a disdain for Remington, at the end of the show STILL using Remington's proves there is more to his story than he's saying.
Anybody that watches the video on Remmy's website will see that cnbc uses walkers "tigger flaw" warning that dated 10years BEFORE the 700 was made, which if i'm right means he was talking about the 721 & 722, but cnbc's editing made it look like the 700.

Companies settle out of court all the time. It's cheaper for them to do that than to fight it. Right or wrong the companies save more money to just settle. Surely you know that. I can't be the first person in the world to tell you that. That's why all of these fake lawsuits are handled like they are. It's cheaper for companies to just pay the liars and cheats off than to go to court and that's why they sue them. You should google "lawsuit abuse", and read about it. It will amaze you.

I didn't see the CNBC piece either but i heard about it. I might be wrong but from what i understood is the guns in question were ADL models and the gun discharged when operating the bolt to empty the magazine.If that's the case why wasn't the gun pointed in a safe direction?

Also i was under the impression that the safety on the gun couldn't be in the" safe" position when the bolt was operated??????? On my 700 the safety can be in the safe position and you can operate the bolt.

Do i have the facts correct or am i wrong? If what i said is true the unfortunately it sounds like operater error / careless gun handling.Didn't Marlin have a simular rap about accidental discharge on the 336 model prior to the introduction of the crossbolt safety?

Thats right, these ambulance chasers will display pictures in court, of a dead kid shot with a remington700 to a jury of basically MORONS, and instead of getting a 30 millon $ settlment, they get a 300$ million $ judgement. Presidential candidate, and all around scumbag, Jon Edwards, made a career out of doing just that.

Hey I'd have no problem with a competant gunsmith building me a
Rem 700 rifle either using factory trigger poperly adjusted. Cause I know before it got handed to me it would be safe. The gunsmiths reputation is at stake.. I work for a manufacturing and installating company. We have gotten awards lots but the 2 precious to me are the 2 we got as the best exporting of manufactured goods in North America. That doesn't mean we don't do things wrong, design issues, or couldn't have been better.Does that mean we are the best there is? No, but it has alot to do with of acceptable level of tolerence is much much higher than our competition before it goes out the door.Before it is much higher than industry min specs acceptable in North American.These are stiff tolerences to live up to in the bare min level to make it higher is an achievement well above and beyond.Obviously there is an issue with Remington that goes alot deeper than what we are seeing on T.V.. I just don't trust the way
they are put together in that factory facility..It seems to me, it's production numbers at min factory standards. Our facility counts on production no question about it,min production numbers have to be met, but it's a very reasonable number to meet , but if the quality standard isn't up to our standards, it gets to meet our standards, and gets shipped.Are we making millions, yep, could we make more, yep
but I quarantee it would be at the price of quality and or company reputation.All Remington has to do is slow things down, cause there was a time when everybody agreed that Rem was and is and will continue to be a great hunting rifle.Right now, the percentage has dropped. That's a fact.

You are finally right. Some have started to believe that Remington's quality is not as good as it was. The people that believe that are not smart enough to make their own decisions and are easily led. They believe whatever is said and in print, no matter who said or wrote it and what their agenda is.

Jeff, to make my point, whens the last time YOUR Remington went off without someone pulling the trigger? As far as that goes, when's the last time any of the people that are on this forum, YOUR Remington went off without someone puilling the trigger???

That's what I thought.

I have never had it happen, nor has anyone I know had it happen. In my opinion, some people should not be allowed arround tools much less be adjusting on a trigger. You can not blame Remington for someone misadjusting one of their triggers.

[QUOTE=Colorado Luckydog;3782349]You are finally right. Some have started to believe that Remington's quality is not as good as it was. The people that believe that are not smart enough to make their own decisions and are easily led. They believe whatever is said and in print, no matter who said or wrote it and what their agenda is.

Jeff, to make my point, whens the last time YOUR Remington went off without someone pulling the trigger? As far as that goes, when's the last time any of the people that are on this forum, YOUR Remington went off without someone puilling the trigger???

That's what I thought.[/QUOTE

I don't own a Rem. But I am in search of a new rifle.I have a Husqvarna (no longer made) a customn Sako and Browning A-bolt. Now the last time I bought rifle was in 91.As we all know things change through the years some for better some for worse. When I buy anything I take my time and make my careful decisions on what I had previously or if I have never had a certain product brand before, I look at other testimonials, I reasearch I come to my own conclusion based on the presentation that both sides give.
I gonna go out there and say it, when it comes to purchasing a product brand that I have never had before, I'm the one that can't think for himself, and make my self believe everything is A-ok. I am not able to put myself out, without doing some type of background knowledge of how it performs
today.If I was gonna buy a gun over the counter today, with all the other choices of Rifle Brands out there, it would not be a Remington.But I'm also
patient person and not easily led. I know Remingtons past, and know they are more than capable of making it right, I have held off for a couple of years, I can hold off longer and go with a custom Rem 700 made by a competant Gunsmith, or even wait until more people start believing in them again.I am in no hurry to buy, and I do believe in Remingtons outstanding history and in their future,but I am able to make a bias decision on them
at this moment because of court judgments and rulings and tesimonies of
of current owners, and their opinions plus their employees including their
own designer. I do this can I am wanting to purchase a new rifle I want
on that won't let me down.With Rem and the declining number of followers, and these current allegations and rulings, leads me to believe there is
better choices today. Not tomorrow today. But I am patient, and I do give them oppurtunities to prove they are a worthwhile investment. I like only buying once. Once I have I own for life and am proud to pass down.

I am able to make a bias decision on them
at this moment because of court judgments and rulings and tesimonies of
of current owners, and their opinions plus their employees including their
own designer. .[/quote]
From their website since you won't go there,

Roger James – Presented as the "Remington Insider"
Testifying in those cases under oath, he was specifically asked whether he had "any recollection of ever hearing anyone at Remington discuss alleged accidental discharges involving bolt-action rifles." His answer was, "No, sir."

Mr. James NEVER worked in the manufacturing or production of firearms; rather, he was employed in Remington’s ammunition plant.

Mike Walker - Designer
The 1948 design shown by CNBC was not even Mr. Walker’s, but that of another Remington engineer.

CNBC also did not note that Mr. Walker’s 1948 proposal would have left the connector in place, or that when Mr. Walker designed the Model 700 in the early 1960s, he maintained the connector and incorporated a sear blocking safety mechanism, consistent with prior designs.

Stapher1, I don't know what to think about these guys. They would believe Keith Olbermann, Nancy Pelosi or even Whoopi Goldberg, before they would go with the results of their own experience, or the experience of so many others.

Remington has probably made millions of rifles and shotguns. Their rifles and shotguns are in the hands of hundreds of thousands of hunters, shooters, lawmen and even our military.

Then the liberal media makes a news story that gives just a few examples of some BS stories and they believe them. It doesn't matter to them that this very same media outlet that produced the story is the same liberal media that is constantly trying to chip away at our rights as gun owners and Americans.

I can't believe that some folks have such weak minds and spirit and are so easily led and manipulated. It's sad and scary.

very, very true!!!!!!!!

Wow, come back after a month and you're still arguing. Ok, instead, what is a good idea if ya got a Remington that won't do better than 2" @ 100yds or 6" at 200 yds.? I love the way my Rems feel in hand especially my 700 sps youth in 243. Just don't shoot for nothing. Thinking of sending it down to Krieger barrels 20 mi. away and tell them to put a barrel on it. I want 18" and light. But then I got 1,100 in it without scope. Sell it for 275 for a Savage that goes 5.5 lbs. It drives me nuts.

Is it the gun or the shooter? I have a 700SPS in a 243, with a fixed 6x Leupold scope that shoots under a inch at 100 yards with 100gr. Rem. Core-Lokt PSP FACTORY loads.

So true luckydog, it's not like it just our opinion only, with nothing to back up what we're saying. Remington under fire was on again last night, this the 3rd time i've watched it and it pisses me off more everytime i watch it, just watching the reporter at the opening of it with his finger on the trigger of the 700 he's holding, proves cnbc has no clue about anything.

It is mostly the gun. I got a new Savage and with 7 5 shot groups I've not been over an inch yet. I put the scope off the Rem and on the Savage so it isn't the scope. I like the gun, just don't shoot well. Plenty good enough for deer though. My son might use it for now on. His gun is a H&R super light. It shoots really bad. 5" groups @ 100 yds. is not good enough.

I am not week minded by any means. If I was, I'd buy one today.
Do I believe CNBC ? I don't buy into all of it. I now they want a story
and will do anything to bring to the front. .It pisses me off.
Do I believe Remington ? I don't buy into it. I know Coorprations. I know cover ups, and I do believe they now this. and it pisses me off.
If they are totally innocent of all these allegations, fire their current
Lawyers, cause they are meatheads, and hire new ones, and Sue CNBC.. Sue them!!!Sue them huge. Show me they mean business..Than get these other cases that they have lost, and get them overturned!!Clear their name..And make them pay back what you payed them plus intersest..
If they have the evidence to clear themselves, than do it..
Appsrently ( according to this quote) This program has been on lots, and guess what?Remington has not even gone to court to stop it from getting air time. No court injuction to see it off air? Or, for that matter, maybe they tried to get and got denied, I don't know.. If Remington is inocent, inocent,
and being honest, and CNBC are the ones that are UNHONEST, NOT STATING FACTS ON THE AIR it shouldn't be an issue at all to get it stopped.
And get Reporters to retract and get them fired..
That's the first thing anyone is claiming these false accusations would do.
Remingtons got the financial power behind them to do it..It has been stated that they sell more firearms than anyone else, and they are the very few that stay around for as long as they have.By a at least one on this forum thread.Geezes..A smart person cetainly would get a court injunction..That's a laugh... I'm shaking my head laughing.... It's a joke... But the sad fact is, its not a matter of name calling, and wanting to punch peoples facesbones heal, names calling just goes in on ear and out the other.. Honestly Lucky Dog between you and few others, you guys should take over the plant and office. At least you guys fight for what you believe in and would fight to the death for that company.. I totally respect you guys for that..But why doesn't Remington fight as hard as you guys?Cause they honestly aren't, if this is being aired still,( 3 times at least from this quote.) and they are claiming inocense.. Go in their and take the place over, they need you baddly..Cause that there is damn right embarrasing. If I was a Rem owner, I'd be both pissed and embarrased to have seen this 3 times, but not at CNBC, but at Remington. Why? For not sticking up for themselves..Aired 3 times Aired 3 times!! Lucky Dog..If you where running that company, and you heard rumers about a story that was taking away food from your wife and kids. Would you have even let it air the first time without interfering? I'm guessing no.. You are a fighter I have never met you but I can tell you are. Be proud of it.. But be just as pissed as Rem for letting it go on as long as it has as you are at CNBC..I'm just on the outside looking in wanting to purchase a rifle.. But 3 times, this has been on the air apparently, and either Rem has tried and failed to get it removed, because their is sometruth to CNBC story, or Rem have not tried at all.Either way
very very embarassing for Rem..Disturbing..And if Remington has not tried at all. That's a losing attitude.Thats the wrong attitude to have, and want nothing to do with them any way shape or form..
Three Times Aired..Makes my wonder..

I wasnt trying to say you couldnt shoot, that just goes to show how different two identical rifles can shoot, my SPS is a sweet heart at the range. I have two of the newer Savages with the accutrigger, bought them at Wal-Mart, got the combos for like $350, although I like my Remingtons and Rugers better you can not argue with the accuracy that you get out of the Savages.

Not only has CNBC been airing the heck out of this, CBS News did a very similar story in 2001.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/...in301947.shtml

I'm sure the vast majority of these issues that have happened are the result of improperly adjusted or improperly maintained triggers but not all.

I totally agree with you..

???????????????????????????:hit:

As far as the Barber's go, I wonder how many people that blew their kid away would blame the gun instead of themselves. How the BLANK could she even think about pointing the gun at her kid. SHE COULD NOT ADMIT TO THE TRUTH OR SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH MANSLAUGHTER FOR SHOOTING HER OWN KID. SHE HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO LIE.

That gun either had a "do it yourself" trigger job or she is just flat lying and she pulled the trigger. This is the kind of BS stories that hurt all gun owners, not just Remington the company.

[QUOTE=Colorado Luckydog;3783221]???????????????????????????:hit:

As far as the Barber's go, I wonder how many people that blew their kid away would blame the gun instead of themselves. How the BLANK could she even think about pointing the gun at her kid. SHE COULD NOT ADMIT TO THE TRUTH OR SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH MANSLAUGHTER FOR SHOOTING HER OWN KID. SHE HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO LIE.

That gun either had a "do it yourself" trigger job or she is just flat lying and she pulled the trigger. This is the kind of BS stories that hurt all gun owners, not just Remington the company.[/QUOTE

Haha.... And Remington settled..
I have always stated never ever settle if your innocent ever..reputation is on the line.
Didn't you say that companies settle? Maybe it was the other guy don't care at this point.Get over it.. Not once have I blamed injuries on Remington..All I'm saying is Rem nows there is a problem with the triggerand has known for quite some time.If they can't this this off the air, something is up..Lots if evidence somewhere to keep this on..