Thanks common sense. I thought I got ripped a little over my experience about my remington rusting. Yes it was a bead blast finish that rusted almost over night. Next question is what does a guy do when he is hunting all day in drizzle or snow? Wipe it down every 2 hours on the stand? I know bead blast is cheaper but I never saw a gun rust like that and I've owned lots of Rems. It was my favorite gun since I could buy guns. I got accused of neglect a few pages back. Oh well, maybe some of your guns are gun cabinet queens, mine are not. They get beat up real nice and work for me or I get rid of them. They have to make a gun that doesn't rust in a day and a half. Period.

I wasn't blasting you or accusing you of neglect. I was telling you why your rifle was rusting.

Wipe it down at the end of the day. It isn't going to rust until it starts to dry out.

How many have you owned that had a very coarse bead blasted finish? I have seen guns get surface rust in hours as they dried. Get a little blood on a blued rifle and it will rust even quicker.

They do but the ADL and SPS aren't the ones. Don't expect a $400 rifle with a very coarse blued finish (regardless of who's name is stamped on the receiver) to perform like a $900 rifle with a polished finish. If you want a Remington that is more resistant to rusting then look at the CDL, BDL, XCR, XHR, or any of the stainless offerings. Remember that blueing is really nothing more than controlled rust the rougher the finish the quicker it will rust.

I don't think they oiled it at the factory. If they did I don't think I would have had that much rust. I have an adl almost like it and it doesn't rust. Oh well the sps 700 youth carries very well.

I have two SPS's, and I have never seen any rust on either one, I have hunted in the poreing rain for weeks at a time without wipeing them down for days after. Matter of fact I used my 243 last deer season in the snow and rain and I have yet to clean it, it shows absolutly no signs of rust, it looks as good as the day I bought it.

i agree. i have a cousin who swears by remingtons... and he's never owned anything but remington 700's.

i've owned weatherby VG, remington 710, and winchester model 70's. alomost completely needless to say that winchester has been far and away the best of those. the vanguard is a pretty decent gun though. i spent $268.99 on it in 30-06 after my employee discount at the time. still one of the best purchases ever. i would like to say, that maybe it's not the gun, but the quality of the optics some of these base models come with. bushnell...? really? not that bushy's can't kill some deer, but they sure aren't nikon or leupold or swaravski.

Just like "warbirdlover" stated, name anything that hasnt gone down in quality in the last twenty years. Its all about production and profit. Everything is automated, and built with cheap labor, and the cheapest materials they can find, all to have bigger profit margins. This isnt just happening in Remington, but in all large gun manufactors. Quality craftmanship is a thing of the past. There was a time when Americans actualy took pride in there work, you are not going to find this in these large corperations, you will find it in the small custom gun builders.

Yep, no question quality has gone down hill on alot of manufacturing companies in the last 20yrs.However, when a Company allegedlly knows it producing and shipping faulty products and continue to do so to the public that is different. I'm not saying Remington is outright guilty of killing or injuring people or putting put a faulty product. But I am saying there must have been enough evidence against Remington for them to settle out of court in alot of court cases. Way to many settlements, for me to even consider purchasing a Factory Remington Rifle in s model 700. That being said the model 700 is a fine action rifle, and made under the right hands. I would have no problem having a Rem 700 made by a competant gunsmith.

Remington WAS a great gun years ago, however they have gone down the road to ruine by making their product cheap and lack of customer service. Quality is not there anymore. My opinion!!!:party0005:

I don't think Savage has gone down hill. Some are getting better and more accurate. Automation can be a good thing. Cars are better too but only through technology.

When you can take a new car and push a dent in it with your finger, versus a older vehicle that takes a hit from a ball bat to dent it, i would call that a decline in quality. I have a 2008 Jeep wrangler with less than 40000 miles on it, it has went through two water pumps, had to have a new tranny cooler instaled and just had a recall on the fender liners falling down and rubbing holes in the brake lines, I call that a decline in quality. I have a 2009 Cadilac STS with less than 15000 miles on it, the drivers side power window just quit working, cost $278 for parts, I call this a decline in Quality. Not to mention all the recalls on the new Toyotas, My 2009 Yamaha Grizzley had a recall on the steering brackets, I call tha a decline in quality. As I said poor workmanship seems to be a pretty common thing in anything produced in the lasst 20 years. Savages are no exception, just give them about two years, now that they have a reputation, you will see a decline in quality also.

If I said it once, I've said it a hundred times. You have the right to your opinion, no matter how wrong you are. Remington has given me great customer service through the years. Mostly it's been a little advice and a couple of questions answered over the phone. You know why that's all the help they have ever given me???
BECAUSE I HAVE NEVER HAD EVEN ONE PROBLEM WITH ANY OF THE REMINGTONS I HAVE EVER OWNED AND I HAVE OWNED A LOAD OF THEM!!!

You guys are talking out your butts and I love spinning you guys up. It's just to darn easy. LMFAO!!!!:s2:

I have a laminate/SS version of remington and savage rifles. look at the stainless finish on a savage, and look at a remington 700's, the remingtons is much nicer, stocks a bit nicer too, IMO. Savages trigger is better though. Theres good and bad aspects of all rifles brands.

At one time every rifle and shotgun in my gun safe was a Remington. Nows except for a couple stragglers, you won't find any. They have been replaced with Savage and Brownings with a Winchester here and there and one lone Marlin Guide gun.

Without a doubt, I love my A-bots, Model 70's and every 336 that I have ever owned. I killed my first 3 elk with a Savage. Those are all good guns. Some of them almost rank up there with my favorite 700's. You can't go wrong with any of them.

Repeat after methis thread is gay ...this thread is gay:rolleye0011:

This thread is dumb. Somebody out there has a Remington that will out shoot a winchester and somebody else has a Howa that will out shoot a Remington. Then TC makes a new improved super rifle. Weatherby is the best of all times but it goes back to the gunsmiths more than any other rifle combined, not because it don't shoot they just don't know how to build a stock that stands up to that kind of pressure. Savage is kicking butt at the average joe level and then maybe Remington/Marlin will out do them next year. Ruger just sucks period. Lets all convince FIE to build rifles so we can all get blown up on the first trigger pull.

Maybe if we took every manufacturer and made a Frankenstein Model 007 then it would be the perfect rifle and then we would only have one rifle manufacturer and they would only cost $10,000.00 because being only one rifle manufacturer they can set the price. Do ya see how all this sounds. Kinda Silly huh.

If you don't like Rumagetons, Whinechesters or any other Parts slapper on'ers don't buy one.

Blackelk hit the nail on the head!!

Zrex, I am curious, why do you care so much if others like remington rifles? It appears, your rather obsessed with other's likes and dislikes. Just an observation from an outsider looking in.

Yeah, You work for Remington?:s2::kiss:

I just like rustling the feathers of rem fans, they get sooooo defensive.

I have yet to see anyone in this thread that likes Remingtons get their "feathers rustle" as you say. However, even if they did, I would rather have my feathers rustled than have my panties twisted up the way yours are.:happy0001: LMFAO:rolleye0011:

I'm not a doctor but I slept in a Holiday Inn last night and I recommend you untwist your panties, take two Midol and then call me in the morning!! LMFAO!!!!:happy0157::happy0157::happy0157:

Anyone would get their feathers ruffled when they are told that their possessions are of lesser value than thought.

Folks will even on occasion refuse to believe verifiable data when presented and even go as far as to assume since they have no issues there must be no issues.

Tom

Not so, hammer forging is the process of forging the rifling into the barrel, a mandrel is placed inside the barrel and the barrel is hammered and contoured at the same time leaving the rifling imprinted or forged in the steel. No tooling marks.

Nicely Put!!!!!! Ridge Runner!

not much to argue other than the fact that everyone claims the rem bolt is crap and needs to be upgraded including the extraction and reciever squared and trued, once thats done its comparible to a stock vanguard reciever and bolt.

Not what i say just what I read. Im no gunsmith, just learning things.

Have you seen the gun poll? It doesnt look, its good by to Remington, looks to me like the Remington is the overall perfered rifle! Here you might want to lokk at it again.

Remington 940 32.71%
Winchester 297 10.33%
Weatherby 134 4.66%
Savage 255 8.87%
Browning 351 12.21%
Ithaca 26 0.90%
Beretta 38 1.32%
Benelli 82 2.85%
Federal 4 0.14%
Ruger 270 9.39%
Sako 134 4.66%
Other 270 9.39%
Thompson Center 73 2.54%

Your beloved Weatherby happens to be one of the worst rated rifles by hunters on this forum. Remingtons are by far the most highly rated rifle here. There is wisdom in numbers. Seems to me you are a minority with your thoughts, zrexpilot

People actually take stuff said on this site seriously when it comes to guns and scopes? That makes me laugh.

Hometheaterman, you might want to check this pole, for some reason your beloved Vortex's didnt even make the poll. The clear winner here is Leuopld by a vast majority! It looks to me the perferd hunting set up by a large majority of the hunters happens to be a Remington topped off with a Leupold! No big surprise! Like I said earlier, wisdom comes in large polls of people, not from a couple of opinionated people that just cause they own something automatically think its the best. Here are the results, read them and weap, no Vortexs are even concidered.


Bushnell 214 14.44%
Leupold 600 40.49%
Simmons 86 5.80%
Tasco 46 3.10%
Zeiss 122 8.23%
Swaroski 76 5.13%
Redfield 34 2.29%
Weaver 26 1.75%
other 278 18.76%

How can any "poll" not have Marlin on the list of rifles and Nikon & Burris not on the list of scopes ?!?!

Both polls had a spot for others, I would assume the Marlins, Nikons And Burris would be concidered in these groups, They werent listed, if you like, and didnt see them on the list wouldnt you vote for other? Thats a no brainer in my book.

Fritz,

I think you missed my point; if one was to made a list of rifles wouldn't one include Marlin before "others" ?

That's all.


Kinda like this;

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rec_center...fle_brands.htm

My 2-Cents, Ladies and Gents,

Remington is indeed capable of producing quality products, like my 1927 vintage M11-12ga. They are also quite capable and willing to market crap like the 710 and 770!!!
They have an absolutely horrible reputation for customer service. Period. And I don't care if that fact makes you cry...To bad, so sad.:s8::s11:

Ever wonder why you seldom see those expensive BROWNINGS on fire sales or discounted heavily? Simply stated, they don't have to, quality sells itself. I don't have a lot of experience with BROWNING'S customer service dept. I wonder why --- Not!

Other quality Mfg's include TC and Ruger, yes ruger. And both of these companies offer outstanding customer service, legendary with customers as well as dealers / distributors.:hail:

Want quality / accuracy right out of the box: SAVAGE. No surprise here, plenty of folks have stated this before on this site and others. And that's the way it is...

Ever hear of the magazine "Gun-Tests"???:happy0001:

Before you order your "Gun of your dreams", do your homework, figure out what you really want, what it will cost, add 25% and buy it from a real live gun shop, now there's an idea!!! And insist that they source the firearm and / or package ( scope , mounts, sling, case and all ) from DAVIDSON'S, a distributor that offers a lifetime guarantee above and beyond that of the manufacturers'. I wonder if WALMART / KMART / ANY-MART does that????.....:confused0024:

I am a former Dealer / FFL and have a little experience in what I am spouting here...

And as for the Wally world fans out there, knock yourselves out.
I my opinion, WM is a great place to purchase under ware, tampons, motor oil, cheap tennis shoes. If you're going there to get a great firearm I hope you find it the first time around. Because that kid behind the sporting goods counter probably knows more about firearms and the like than you ever will, although he will likely have moved on to the produce dept. when you come back in for service after the SALE.:nonono2:

Anyway, shoot more, shoot more often.

God Bless America, gao

You can go to Cabelas right now and get any caliber Browning A bolt for $599, the same price as a Remington SPS S/S, Its $100 cheaper than a Ruger laminate. So yes Browning does have these fire sales where there guns are heavily discounted. Brownings make good guns, no doubt, but I would not go as far to say they are best made. I have read that alot of gunsmiths wont work on them, something to do with the threads on the barrels, I believe.
As far as Magazine "Gun Test", Who do you think pays these magazines to test and promote there rifles?, The gun Manufactors! When was the last time you read a bad review on any gun? Just my two cents, not trying to start a arguement, just giving you someone elses poit of view.

Marketing.
ever wonder why someone would pay 700.00 bucks for a break in half single shot.
Advertising.

And if you notice the poll shows that a little over 2% of the people perfer the Thompson Center. So apparently there marketing statigy hasnt worked for them.

I dont know what exactly the #s are, but I gotta imagine remington produces and sells, more rifles and shotguns than most other companies, maybe combined??? I may be wrong, but it would seem to me, that this might factor into the amount of lemons they put out?

IMO ruger and TC are the most overrated brands out there . I owned a couple M77s and was not impressed with eithers accuracy, or fit/finsh, or rugers customer service. I sent a M77 back to them cause the trigger was like an 870s, they sent it back a month later "worked on", it was exactly the same. TC sidelock MLs are decent but the encore is a POS!

My only experiences w/ remington customer service was trivial, but good. I bought a used 700 adl years ago w/ the rear sight missing I called up R and they just asked my for the ser.# and sent me a new one free. They also sent me a free mag plug too once.

The nicest walnut stock I have ever bought was a 1100 trap model about 5 years ago, absolutely stunning shotgun , my 700 mtllss is the best looking, most accurate bolt action Ive ever owned.

If you want to pay for a little more quality, remington offers that, if you want a 300$ tupperware/spraypainted POS, they offer that too, you chose, but dont whine when you get what you pay for cause you aint getting any better for the $ anywhere else.
The walmarts around here dont sell guns so I wouldnt know.

Here are the results from another poll, from the "Shooters Forum", As you can see Remington once again comes out on top. Notice the trend there. Remingtons are not going anywhere, they are THE #1 rifle in the minds of hunters everywhere, believe it or not!

View Poll Results: Your favorite bolt action?
Mauser 8 7.92%
rugger m77 17 16.83%
remington 700 25 24.75%
howa/vangaurd 1 0.99%
winchester model 70 17 16.83%
savage 10 9.90%
marlin 2 1.98%
browning a or x bolt 6 5.94%
1903 springfield 4 3.96%
other 15 14.85%

Here is the link Sheridan posted. It still shows Remington on top! Go Figure!!!!

Recommended Centerfire Rifle Brands

By the Guns and Shooting Online Staff



One of the most frequent e-mail questions we get is, "What brand of hunting rifle should I buy?" In an effort to help I wrote, "Recommended Centerfire Hunting Rifles," which names the specific models that I personally prefer in a number of categories. But those recommendations are strictly my opinion.

In order to get a wider range of opinions, I asked various members of the Guns and Shooting Online staff to name up to three of their favorite BRANDS of hunting rifles and here are the results. Note that each person's list is in alphabetical order, not order of preference.

Alex Boughamer (Writer): Browning, Remington.

Ann Decker (Office Assistant): Weatherby.

Bob Fleck (Technical Assistant): Marlin, Savage, Weatherby.

Jim Fleck (Chief Technical Assistant): Browning, Marlin, Weatherby.

Glenn Harmaning (Writer): Marlin, Remington, Ruger.

Terry Hart (Contributing Editor): CZ, H&R, T/C.

Chuck Hawks (Managing Editor): Marlin, Weatherby, Winchester.

Rocky Hays (Gunsmithing Consultant): Remington, T/C, Weatherby.

Nathan Rauzon (Technical Assistant): Remington, Ruger, Savage.

Jack Seeling (Technical Assistant): Marlin, Remington, Ruger.

Carl Swanson (Writer): Browning, Marlin, Ruger.

David Tong (Writer): CZ, Remington, Ruger.

Randy Wakeman (Senior Contributing Editor): Browning, Ruger, Savage.

Jon Y. Wolfe (Contributing Editor): Kimber.

The results of this little survey of "experts" were more interesting and diverse than I expected. A total of 11 different brands were recommended. They ranged from what I would consider upscale brands (Weatherby, Kimber, Browning) to inexpensive (H&R). All are valid choices depending on budget and purpose.

Clearly, different individuals had different ideas about price and value. Yet several respondents included both a relatively expensive and a more moderately priced brand on their list (Weatherby and Marlin, for example). Evidently, what was most important to them was "value"--getting a full measure of what you pay for--not price per se. For those who are interested in such things, here are the recommendation totals:


Ruger - 6
Marlin - 6
Remington - 6
Weatherby - 5
Browning - 4
Savage - 3
CZ - 2
T/C - 2
Winchester - 1
Kimber - 1
H&R - 1

No offense, but it looks as they feathers are getting rustled on both sides.

Carry on the rustling.