What about the new Versa-Max??? It has an all new gas system and is supposed to be the softest recoiling shotgun ever and.......






oh yeah its already been recalled.

Thanks tom, actually Ive zero bad to say about a model 70 except that I just prefer a 700. That said, i onced owned a sears and robuck model 70, killed a deer with it and sold it, but it was a great lil rifle, very accurate(push feed though), wish I still had it. my buddy uses a pushfeed 70s era m70 in 243, dam thing shoots incredible when were at the range, he just took a antelope w/it last fall at almost 400yds he says.

I fondeled a EW model 70 @ gander a few months back and was very impessed, I loved the fluted barrel and the action was butta, if it wasnt chamberd in 270wsm I mighta pulled out the plastic.

I just figure all the B&Cs were pretty much the same , I had a duramax on my savage 10ml, it was pretty nice for a 100$.

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The sub MOA is fine rifle but its more like 800 bucks, the 400$ vanguards aint all that. The MOA sure has a few nice features, the remington 700 doesnt, but my 700 also shoots "MOA" and is a joy to carry and look at too, so Ill stick w/ it.

Personally though, I think the best value in hunting rifles out there now is the savage 112 with the accustock. for about 600$ you get a SS lightweight rifle thats shoots awsome and has just about every nice feature youd want.

Remember, he said there is no reason for him to ever own more than one or 2 guns.

What cracks me up is his shining endorsement of vortex scopes but again, never has owned one.

The only person that would do that are competition shooters that want super tight tolerances for rifles that won't get dirty or see conditions that would cause the bolt to stick, like dirt, dust, water and cold weather or a lazy owner that never cleans it.
It takes alot of machine time to make a gun of that quality and only charge $399, and that doesn't set off any alarms to you. Interesting.
They are copied because it the best design out there. simple or easy does not always mean junk, i've seen stevens rifles that blow big holes in your statement. The TC Precision Hunter made the same way as a vanguard and is “certified to deliver sub-minute accuracy right out of the box.” This is Theoretically proven by a target included with each new Precision Hunter, this one is a print-out from the T/C computer-aided acoustic targeting system. There not even physically tested!
I'm not a mechanic but i bought a 6yr ford, the first one i ever owned, and had the oil pump lock up and wipe the main bearings out but i still bought another because it's a ford and still the best out there. Would i buy a winchester or a savage or vanguard? Yes, they are nice rifles but my #1 pick is Remington because, like in the commercial, it's ever let me down.

LoL Big.... HNI is a great place to pack in the knowledge in a hurry! Only place on the net a feller can go from red hat to superintendent in 6 months :D

Where exactly have I been all over the net bashing Nikon scopes? Please provide a link. I do own a Nikon scope, and while I don't think it's the best class in it's price range, it's still a very decent scope for the money. The one I own is a Prostaff, so not their top end model, but it's held up great and been a good scope. I will be the first to tell you the Burris FFII, optically is superior which I think we all know, and the turrets aren't the greatest on the Nikon, but it's still pretty decent optically, and it's not a bad scope at all. Better both optically than the 2 VX-I's I've had and has managed to actually work without losing zero unlike the VX-I's. I'm curious to where I bashed it or said I didn't own one? Everyone keeps posting on here that I talk good or bad about certain products without owning them, but I'm curious, how do you know if I've owned one or not?

When you quote someone else's writings you should always give credit for it and cite your sources. Your statement above, which I highlighted in red, sounded very similar to something I had read before.

Read the second paragraph in this link:

http://www.longrangehunting.com/arti...r-review-1.php

My Dad is tougher than your Dad! He eats nails for breakfast!!

Choices, that's what's awesome about where we live, we can all have choices and express our views. You gotta love that!!

Really?? You say you own one now eh? Well which is it Jr? Which we all know? Kinda like the "turrets" on the Pro Staff?

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/scop...rostaff-2.html



You are a walking contradiction.... do the world a favor and spare us your "expert" opinion and stick to window licking. Really its ok to !!!! when you dont know the answer...:busted:

I still stand by that however, the Prostaff I bought was well after that was written. The reason I bought it is I got an incredible deal on it that was to hard to pass up. I wanted to run it through some tests and see how it did. Honestly my opinions mimic what was said on Optics Talk. The glass is decent, but not on par with others in the $200 price range, the turrets are not the best, but it is a durable scope and works fairly well. It would probably serve most hunters just fine. I don't feel that was bashing them. I was just stating that you can get a lot better glass for the money price that they were at that time. However, the difference is at that time they were $160 and they are now $100. As I said, them holding up is not a problem for them. Optically for $180 from a store, or $140 or so on eBay you can get a Burris FFII that's quite a bit better. I see no reason to spend $160 on a Prostaff with bad turrets and only decent glass when you can get the Burris FFII for around the same price. I like the best glass I can get for my money. That doesn't mean that the Nikon is a horrible scope, just that it's not great glass. For $100, there isn't much else I think you can get that's better. Optically the Prostaff is nearly identical to a Simmons Blazer I directly compared it to. I feel more confident in it holding up over time, but optically it's very similar. I think if you did a search on read reviews from people that have actually used decent glass and know what to look for you will see very similar findings. To me the Nikon Prostaff should be in the $100 price range all of the time, as I feel it's out of place in the $160-200 price class. That doesn't mean it's a piece of crap, just that it's not optically up to par with others in that price range.

BTW if I don't know the answer to something you don't see me post about it. Ever wonder why I don't post in the bow section? Hmm, there is a reason for that. Or the taxidermy section? Reason for that too.

What I do respond to is when someone comes on here spreading bs, that's clearly bs. Or when I do know about a specific product.

Perhaps the firearms and optic sections would be great places for exclusion as well :D

Rifles?
 

There is an article in the March,2011 "Guns & Ammo" by Craig Boddington "Out of the Box Accuracy" that I found quite informative.
It relates very well to the array of posts in this thread.
I don't know whether Boddington is an "EXPERT" or not, however he has a varied and broad experience base.
I found his comments enlightening and seemingly unbiased(the key word "unbiased").
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!

As for me, I bought a 700 adl 2 yrs. ago. It rusted in one weekend. I took it out to clean and was pitted with rust. Yah, I know I'm supposed to wipe it dry. My sons cheap H&R didn't rust a bit. What does that tell you? It shoots 2" @ 100 yds and 6" @ 200 yds on a good day. My old Remingtons shot very well. This one is going in for a Savage. I'm done, the last 3 Remingtons have been a big disapointment in accuracy.

That tells me that you bought a Remington 700 with a very course matte bead blasted finish which will rust over night if you do not keep the thing clean. Moisture will settle into the pores of the finish and rust. It's that simple. If you do not like this then you should purchase a rifle with a smoother finish on the steel.

The H&R has a satin finish (about 400 grit) that is not nearly as course as the bead blasted finish on the ADL and thus does not rust as easily. This finish is similar to what is on the Remington 700 CDL.

The rifles that have mirror polished blued steel, such as a Winchester 70 super grade, perform almost as if they were stainless steel because the surface of the metal is so smooth.

It tells me you bought 2 cheap rifles and one rusted due to neglect.

so "it" shoots 3Xs larger groups @ only double the distance :confused:Hmmmm are you sure its the rifle?

So you really think you know something because some hoser posted about it on opticstalk???

Why do you keep recommending Vortex. You only know what you read.

I wouldn't have any issues if you put disclaimers before you post, that you read it somewhere.

My cousin lives in Nashville, TN. He had just moved there. He had three Remington shotguns in his collection, A Benelli 390, A shot gun that was made before 1900, A couple of air rifles and his bow all sitting in his Wooden display cabinet with glass doors. Within a month or two of moving there. His Remington shotguns were all rusted. All the other guns in his cabinet were fine. Including the one made before 1900.

Are there some potential lurking variables here. Maybe. Lets say there was some neglect. Which I don't particulary think so but if there was they were all neglected the same.

Tom

That's one of the main reasons I don't post here much anymore, the fanboyism (read blind devotion) that is allowed to run loose here is nothing short of mind boggling. If I had a nickel for every post I have read that included the word "Remington" or ".30-06", I would be living quite handsomely. Even more laughable is the insane amount of threads which read like "which .300 Whiz Bang snorten zoomer do I need for deer ? keep in mind all of my shots will be 150 yards and under". If you admit to admiring Weatherby's, or Sako's, or CZ's, you are regarded as being a fool, because you don't shoot the Remchester flavor of the week. If we spent as much time joining the NRA, and fighting for our 2nd Amendment rights, as we do belittling each other's choice of hunting rifle, the anti-gunners wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of stopping us.

There you go again Commonsense..............doing justice to your screen name.

We need more guys like you around here !


Homeheaterman keep telling it like it is bud !!!

"We all know whatever I use is best & you guys that don't agree don't have a clue." LOL

Somebody should tell the butt load of deer, elk, hogs, coyotes, and all the other critters that I've killed in my life, how bad Remington is. I bet they would disagree with you!! This thread makes me laugh my ass off!!

That being said, I can't wait to pick up my new Remington 700 XCR 300 Ultra Mag from the gunsmith. That's right, the gunsmith. I'm having a little work done to her!! When she comes home, there is a brand new Leupold VX III 4 1/2X 14x 50 waiting to be mounted on her. I can't believe I ever got rid of my 300 Ultra mag. It won't happen again.

It's been my pleasure in my life to own almost every rifle mentioned in this thread. I liked them all and would recommend almost every one of them. That's right, even the Savage. I do like to joke around about Savages though.

What kills me about this thread is, that the op and others sound like little school girls bashing each others brand of makeup. Who gives a rats ass what someone else shoots. Just saying.....

I should add, thanks to the OP, commonsense and a select few others for the comical relief. I was at work and this thread and the stupid stuff being said just cracked me the blank up!! LMFAO!!:s1:

You can laugh all you want, I just hope your NRA membership is current. Have a nice day.

eeeeeYUP!:s1:

I'm glad you think it's so darn hilarious, because the truth is, it isn't. The last thing we need is to become divided over "this brand" or "that brand", we need to come together and fight for our rights to hunt and shoot.

Are you the same commonsense that said this?? LMFAO!!!

I did say that, and it's those fanboys who cause problems.

Your tails wagging but you still barking!!LMFAO!:hit::happy0157::party0005:

I'm not the one with the username "Luckydog". And I am thrilled that you are enjoying this thread, seems like you are infatuated with conflict.

That's right, I am the LUCKYDOG!!:wave:

"I am glad that you have found equipment that you like, but I honestly don't understand threads that trash-mouth another man's equipment."
Big Uncle



I own; Marlin, Browning, Benelli, Savage, Sako, Beretta, Stoeger, Ruger & Remington.

I must be one LUCKY guy - ALL mine seem to work well !!! :biggrin:

You brew the conflict, I just bask in the stupidity of it!!

Have a nice day.

I'm not a fantatic "backer" of any brand rifle. I just bought a 700 SPS Buckmasters because I loved the camo stock and the all black action. It's smooth as silk, the trigger is the best of all the rifles I tried in the store and it's a very pretty gun. the bore is glass smooth. I checked it against all the other rifles; Tikka T3 (looked cheap), TC Venture and Icon (almost bought one of these), Weatherby Vanguard (horrible, gritty trigger), Browning X-Bolt and A-bolt, Winchester 70 (better then the pre-64's now), Sako A7 (black bolt shroud on a stainless bolt?) and the cheap Marlin and Mossberg bolts. Midwest Shooters Supply (Lomira, Wis) didn't have any Savages but I really don't like the looks of them anyway. I wanted to look at CZ's but none there either. The Remington 700 just stood out as more pleasing to my eye and the price was right (with the rebate) so I bought it. I just got the scope on it so will be shooting it soon and will report on results. I spend alot of time at the range and am an above average shot.

And poorer quality? Get used to it because everything you buy is not going to be like it was 20 years ago, cars, clothes, houses and food. The euro rifles are not going to still make them like the "old world" anymore either. Check out the new Sako 85's compared to the Finnbear. Not even close.

this thread isnt about what works its about quality.
Ive killed more deer and hogs in the past 5 years with a .22 hornet in a single shot NEF than any of my other rifles.
Doesnt make it the best gun there is.
I,ll never own another remington, my first issue with them was some 10 years ago with an 870 with mat finish, absolutley the worst finish I have ever encountered, the thing rusted up as fast as you can say POS.
Then the years that folowed were strings of rems of mine and friends that wouldnt group, stuck cases and bolts hard to open using factory ammo. its too bad because they are nice looking guns. I just have no confidence in buying one anymore.

This thread isn't about quality, it's about you having an agenda against Remington. No big deal to me but it is what it is. I personaly have owned well over 30 Remington's and I have never had a problem with even one of them. I have owned a bunch of 870's and a bunch of 700's and will keep owning them in the future. Everyone has a right to their opinion, no matter how wrong they might be.:woot::D

I might add, I'm not just a Remington fan, I have owned and loved a Weatherby also.

We'll be free for little while longer. So do as you wish.

Tom

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