Is this the beginning?
01-10-2009, 08:03 AM
#1
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,745
Is this the beginning?
I don't know if its true or not but I read this email I received and promptly sent letters to my state and federal reps.
Urge you all to do the same.
Subject: Hunting buddies: Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30,
2009] (UNCLASSIFIED)
Subject: Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009
Looks like it is already starting. First at the State level then
the
Fed's!
Tim
It has already started...
Ammunition Accountability Legislation
Remember how Obama said that he wasn't going to take your guns?
Well, it seems that his allies in the anti-gun world have no problem
with
taking your ammo!
The bill that is being pushed in 18 states (including Illinois
and
Indiana) requires all ammunition to be encoded by the manufacture a data
base of all ammunition sales. So they will know how much you buy and
what
calibers.
Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009 unless the
ammunition is coded.
Any privately held uncoded ammunition must be destroyed by July
1,
2011. (Including hand loaded ammo.) They will also charge a .05 cent tax
on
every round so every box of ammo you buy will go up at least $2.50 or
more!
If they can deprive you of ammo they do not need to take your
gun!
This legislation is currently pending in 18 states: Alabama,
Arizona, California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky,
Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania,
Rhode
Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Washington.
Send to your friends in these states AND fight to dissolve this
BILL!!
To find more about the anti-gun group that is sponsoring this
legislation and the specific legislation for each state, go to:
http://ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE
Urge you all to do the same.
Subject: Hunting buddies: Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30,
2009] (UNCLASSIFIED)
Subject: Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009
Looks like it is already starting. First at the State level then
the
Fed's!
Tim
It has already started...
Ammunition Accountability Legislation
Remember how Obama said that he wasn't going to take your guns?
Well, it seems that his allies in the anti-gun world have no problem
with
taking your ammo!
The bill that is being pushed in 18 states (including Illinois
and
Indiana) requires all ammunition to be encoded by the manufacture a data
base of all ammunition sales. So they will know how much you buy and
what
calibers.
Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009 unless the
ammunition is coded.
Any privately held uncoded ammunition must be destroyed by July
1,
2011. (Including hand loaded ammo.) They will also charge a .05 cent tax
on
every round so every box of ammo you buy will go up at least $2.50 or
more!
If they can deprive you of ammo they do not need to take your
gun!
This legislation is currently pending in 18 states: Alabama,
Arizona, California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky,
Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania,
Rhode
Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Washington.
Send to your friends in these states AND fight to dissolve this
BILL!!
To find more about the anti-gun group that is sponsoring this
legislation and the specific legislation for each state, go to:
http://ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE
01-10-2009, 08:25 AM
#2
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 211
RE: Is this the beginning?
DURHAM -- Gun owners looking to reload would have to show a permit every time they buy ammunition, if a bill backed by Durham officials gains state approval.
The proposal championed by the Rev. Melvin Whitley, a local community activist, will face opposition from gun-rights groups.
Whitley told state lawmakers and Durham City Council members Monday that anyone over 18 can buy ammunition without being subject to any background check. That means felons, who aren't allowed to own guns or ammo, can buy bullets unfettered.
Requiring a permit to buy bullets, just as the state does for firearms, is a "no-brainer," he said.
"It's a wonder we have not identified this loophole in the past," Whitley told council members.
But Paul Valone, president of Grass Roots North Carolina, a gun-rights lobbying group, called the idea "ludicrous."
Felons with the means and determination to obtain a gun illegally wouldn't have any trouble finding a way around the bullet-permit law, Valone said.
"The only people this would restrict is law-abiding gun owners," Valone said.
"We will be happy to defeat this bill and any legislator who supports it."
Rep. Mickey Michaux, a Durham Democrat, expects such stiff opposition. The bill hasn't been introduced, but Michaux said it would be soon in one or both chambers of the General Assembly.
Michaux supports the idea.
But he said the bill has "about the same chance as getting a ban on handguns in this state. We've been outnumbered over the years by the strong arm of the [National Rifle Association]."
Illinois has a similar law, enacted in 1968. It requires people to apply for a Firearm Owner's Identification Card that must be displayed when buying a firearm or ammunition.
It costs $5 and is valid for five years.
There are about 1.2 million card holders in the state, according to the Illinois State Police Web site.
Even supporters have questions about logistics.
Ron Hodge, deputy chief of the Durham Police Department, said it wouldn't be hard to issue a bullet card with a handgun permit. The trouble would come with people who already have obtained their handgun permit having to go through another permitting process, Hodge said.
That would be cumbersome for the agency distributing the permits -- likely county sheriffs -- and for legal gun owners, he said.
Whitley said any inconveniences are trumped by the need to add another hurdle in the path of violent criminals.
"It's the bullets that are hurting us," he said.
Staff writer Matt Dees can be reached at 956-2433 or [email protected].
The proposal championed by the Rev. Melvin Whitley, a local community activist, will face opposition from gun-rights groups.
Whitley told state lawmakers and Durham City Council members Monday that anyone over 18 can buy ammunition without being subject to any background check. That means felons, who aren't allowed to own guns or ammo, can buy bullets unfettered.
Requiring a permit to buy bullets, just as the state does for firearms, is a "no-brainer," he said.
"It's a wonder we have not identified this loophole in the past," Whitley told council members.
But Paul Valone, president of Grass Roots North Carolina, a gun-rights lobbying group, called the idea "ludicrous."
Felons with the means and determination to obtain a gun illegally wouldn't have any trouble finding a way around the bullet-permit law, Valone said.
"The only people this would restrict is law-abiding gun owners," Valone said.
"We will be happy to defeat this bill and any legislator who supports it."
Rep. Mickey Michaux, a Durham Democrat, expects such stiff opposition. The bill hasn't been introduced, but Michaux said it would be soon in one or both chambers of the General Assembly.
Michaux supports the idea.
But he said the bill has "about the same chance as getting a ban on handguns in this state. We've been outnumbered over the years by the strong arm of the [National Rifle Association]."
Illinois has a similar law, enacted in 1968. It requires people to apply for a Firearm Owner's Identification Card that must be displayed when buying a firearm or ammunition.
It costs $5 and is valid for five years.
There are about 1.2 million card holders in the state, according to the Illinois State Police Web site.
Even supporters have questions about logistics.
Ron Hodge, deputy chief of the Durham Police Department, said it wouldn't be hard to issue a bullet card with a handgun permit. The trouble would come with people who already have obtained their handgun permit having to go through another permitting process, Hodge said.
That would be cumbersome for the agency distributing the permits -- likely county sheriffs -- and for legal gun owners, he said.
Whitley said any inconveniences are trumped by the need to add another hurdle in the path of violent criminals.
"It's the bullets that are hurting us," he said.
Staff writer Matt Dees can be reached at 956-2433 or [email protected].
01-10-2009, 09:10 AM
#3
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 364
RE: Is this the beginning?
What people dont realize, its going to get UGLY, the ammo deal is just the tip of the spear, far worse legistlation is in the works. Two years ago, I started warning of what was about to become when the gun grabbing democrats took control of the house and senate, people laughed at me, told me I was crazy!, well the preverbreal ball is about to drop. I'm asking you all a question, why would so many high ranking government officials back obama like they did, do you think that they thought he is what this country needs to push ahead?, or do you think that they know that he is just going to be their puppet on a string?, if you answered the latter, you are correct, if you answered the first, you need to get your head out of your BUT!!!. If you dont know as of now, for the past two years, the gun grabbing liberals and the brady bunch have been working behind closed doors, just waitting for the white house to be run by a lacky, well they have it now, some things of the new gun bans, notice I did not say ausult weapons bans!, any weapon that military or police use or have used, this covers a lot of guns, not just M16 look alikes, pistols, rifles and shotguns, yes, you bird hunters are going to suffer now!. word play that takes the so called sporting use out of the picture, new meannings to words descibeing grips and so on. What I read, and I hope to hell I'm wrong, they are going to try to come after them all!
01-10-2009, 09:59 AM
#6
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
Posts: 809
RE: Is this the beginning?
ORIGINAL: eldeguello
As Roseann Roseanna Dana used to say, "It's always something!"
As Roseann Roseanna Dana used to say, "It's always something!"
This is my everyday saying!
I'm ready for our so called "saviour"
Sometimes people forget they are in the land of the free and "us good ole boys" have our ways?
01-10-2009, 10:26 AM
#7
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3,145
RE: Is this the beginning?
Ammo has been a good investment for quite a while now. Looks like the market is going to take another upswing.
As usual, if this moronic government idea is passed, it will have the opposite effect of it's intent, driving the ammo trade underground, making any tracing impossible. As it stands now, some ammo sales can be tracked using credit card transactions. This bill would make that disappear completely. Add a huge ammo tax to the mix and what they have done is create a massive black market overnight. Stupid is as stupid does.
As usual, if this moronic government idea is passed, it will have the opposite effect of it's intent, driving the ammo trade underground, making any tracing impossible. As it stands now, some ammo sales can be tracked using credit card transactions. This bill would make that disappear completely. Add a huge ammo tax to the mix and what they have done is create a massive black market overnight. Stupid is as stupid does.
01-10-2009, 03:30 PM
#9
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 364
RE: Is this the beginning?
I tried to cut and paste the article but got a error page, this is a must read!!! http://buckeyefirearms.org/node/6376
01-10-2009, 04:41 PM
#10
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
Posts: 809
RE: Is this the beginning?
Here you go!
If the following information scares or angers you, CLICK HERE TO HELP US FIGHT BACK.
[hr]
By Alan Korwin
Slipping below the radar (or under the short-term memory cap), the Democrats have already leaked a gun-ban list, even under the Bush administration when they knew full well it had no chance of passage (HR 1022, 110th Congress). It serves as a framework for the new list the Bradys plan to introduce shortly.
I have an outline of the Brady's current plans and targets of opportunity, I'm working on getting that news out asap after these ban lists, probably be ready in the next few days. It's horrific. They’re going after the courts, regulatory agencies, firearms dealers and statutes in an all out effort to restrict we the people. They've made little mention of criminals.
Now more than ever, attention to the entire Bill of Rights is critical. Gun bans will impact our freedoms under search and seizure, due process, confiscated property, states rights, free speech, right to assemble and more, in addition to the Second Amendment.
The Democrats' current gun-ban-list proposal (final list will be worse):
Rifles (or copies or duplicates):
M1 Carbine, Sturm Ruger Mini-14, AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, AR-10, Thompson 1927, Thompson M1;
AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR;
Olympic Arms PCR; AR70, Calico Liberty, Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU, Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC, Hi-Point Carbine, HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, HK-PSG-1, Thompson 1927 Commando, Kel-Tec Sub Rifle;
Saiga, SAR-8, SAR-4800, SKS with detachable magazine, SLG 95, SLR 95 or 96, Steyr AU, Tavor, Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz).
Pistols (or copies or duplicates):
Calico M-110, MAC-10, MAC-11, or MPA3, Olympic Arms OA, TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, or AB-10, Uzi.
Shotguns (or copies or duplicates):
Armscor 30 BG, SPAS 12 or LAW 12, Striker 12, Streetsweeper.
Catch-all category (for anything missed or new designs):
A semiautomatic rifle that accepts a detachable magazine and has (i) a folding or telescoping stock, (ii) a threaded barrel, (iii) a pistol grip (which includes ANYTHING that can serve as a grip, see below), (iv) a forward grip; or a barrel shroud.
Any semiautomatic rifle with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds (except tubular magazine .22 rimfire rifles).
A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has (i) a second pistol grip, (ii) a threaded barrel, (iii) a barrel shroud or (iv) can accept a detachable magazine outside of the pistol grip, and (v) a semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds.
A semiautomatic shotgun with (i) a folding or telescoping stock, (ii) a pistol grip (see definition below), (iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine or a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds, and (iv) a shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
Frames or receivers for the above are included, along with conversion kits.
Attorney General gets carte blanche to ban guns at will:
Under the proposal, the U.S. Attorney General can add any "semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General." Note that Obama's pick for this office (Eric Holder, confirmation hearing set for Jan. 15) wrote a brief in the Heller case supporting the position that you have no right to have a working firearm in your own home.
In making this determination, the bill says, "there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event."
In plain English this means that ANY firearm ever obtained by federal officers or the military is not suitable for the public.
That presumption can be challenged only by suing the federal government over each firearm it decides to ban, in a court it runs with a judge it pays. This virtually dismisses the principles of the Second Amendment.
The last part is particularly clever, stating that a firearm doesn’t have a sporting purpose just because it can be used for sporting purpose -- is that devious or what? And of course, "sporting purpose" is a rights infringement with no constitutional or historical support whatsoever, invented by domestic enemies of the right to keep and bear arms to further their cause of disarming the innocent.
If these near-total bans aren't enough, the most dangerous part may be the phrase "pistol grip" because: "The term 'pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip." In other words, any semi-auto long gun with a grip (that's ALL semi-auto long guns) would be banned under the existing proposal. It's not clear what they hope to achieve by deceptively banning guns with grips instead of just calling to ban the guns -- even an idjit can tell it's the same thing.
I didn't cover here all the magazine bans, transfer bans, dealer record-keeping and centralized reporting, and a host of nuisance details -- there will be time enough for that when the new lists are released soon: "As soon as President-elect Obama is inaugurated and the 111th Congress is sworn in," according to Ms. Brady. Congress is set to be sworn in on Jan. 6, Inauguration Day is Jan. 20.
No one expects the new proposal to be less abusive than the current one supported by the party of the Democrats. Remember -- these bans were proposed when the congressional anti-rights crowd had no chance of success. Now they are ready to run wild, or according to Sarah herself, "I have never been so confident." The "news" media has failed to report on any of this, preferring instead to blare that the incoming president supports the Second Amendment and commonsense (sic) laws.
To see the whole bill, go to http://thomas.loc.gov and search for HR 1022, (switch to the 110th Congress if the 111th has begun).
The excellent Firearms Coalition started by the late Neal Knox and now run by his family members makes these important points about the upcoming Judiciary hearings for AG nominee Holder:
"The Democrat members of the Judiciary Committee are all sworn enemies to the Second Amendment and are unlikely to be swayed at all by any firearms related arguments, but might hesitate to confirm based on Holder’s participation in the pardons of 16 Puerto Rican terrorists and billionaire financier and arms merchant Marc Rich [and perhaps the Elian Gonzalez abduction by federal agents Holder authorized]. Any letters to Democrats should focus on those issues.
"On the Republican side, Arlen Specter, the ranking Republican on the committee has never been a friend to gun rights, but he owes his reelection to NRA support and has expressed concern over the pardon issues. Among the other Republicans, most are relatively reliable votes, but only Coburn has routinely taken a leadership role on Second Amendment matters. All of them need to be pressed hard to do everything they can to block the appointment.
"For more information about Eric Holder and why his appointment must be fought tooth and nail, go to our web site at http://www.FirearmsCoalition.org ."
[hr]
If the following information scares or angers you, CLICK HERE TO HELP US FIGHT BACK.
[hr]
By Alan Korwin
Slipping below the radar (or under the short-term memory cap), the Democrats have already leaked a gun-ban list, even under the Bush administration when they knew full well it had no chance of passage (HR 1022, 110th Congress). It serves as a framework for the new list the Bradys plan to introduce shortly.
I have an outline of the Brady's current plans and targets of opportunity, I'm working on getting that news out asap after these ban lists, probably be ready in the next few days. It's horrific. They’re going after the courts, regulatory agencies, firearms dealers and statutes in an all out effort to restrict we the people. They've made little mention of criminals.
Now more than ever, attention to the entire Bill of Rights is critical. Gun bans will impact our freedoms under search and seizure, due process, confiscated property, states rights, free speech, right to assemble and more, in addition to the Second Amendment.
The Democrats' current gun-ban-list proposal (final list will be worse):
Rifles (or copies or duplicates):
M1 Carbine, Sturm Ruger Mini-14, AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, AR-10, Thompson 1927, Thompson M1;
AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR;
Olympic Arms PCR; AR70, Calico Liberty, Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU, Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC, Hi-Point Carbine, HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, HK-PSG-1, Thompson 1927 Commando, Kel-Tec Sub Rifle;
Saiga, SAR-8, SAR-4800, SKS with detachable magazine, SLG 95, SLR 95 or 96, Steyr AU, Tavor, Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz).
Pistols (or copies or duplicates):
Calico M-110, MAC-10, MAC-11, or MPA3, Olympic Arms OA, TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, or AB-10, Uzi.
Shotguns (or copies or duplicates):
Armscor 30 BG, SPAS 12 or LAW 12, Striker 12, Streetsweeper.
Catch-all category (for anything missed or new designs):
A semiautomatic rifle that accepts a detachable magazine and has (i) a folding or telescoping stock, (ii) a threaded barrel, (iii) a pistol grip (which includes ANYTHING that can serve as a grip, see below), (iv) a forward grip; or a barrel shroud.
Any semiautomatic rifle with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds (except tubular magazine .22 rimfire rifles).
A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has (i) a second pistol grip, (ii) a threaded barrel, (iii) a barrel shroud or (iv) can accept a detachable magazine outside of the pistol grip, and (v) a semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds.
A semiautomatic shotgun with (i) a folding or telescoping stock, (ii) a pistol grip (see definition below), (iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine or a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds, and (iv) a shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
Frames or receivers for the above are included, along with conversion kits.
Attorney General gets carte blanche to ban guns at will:
Under the proposal, the U.S. Attorney General can add any "semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General." Note that Obama's pick for this office (Eric Holder, confirmation hearing set for Jan. 15) wrote a brief in the Heller case supporting the position that you have no right to have a working firearm in your own home.
In making this determination, the bill says, "there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event."
In plain English this means that ANY firearm ever obtained by federal officers or the military is not suitable for the public.
That presumption can be challenged only by suing the federal government over each firearm it decides to ban, in a court it runs with a judge it pays. This virtually dismisses the principles of the Second Amendment.
The last part is particularly clever, stating that a firearm doesn’t have a sporting purpose just because it can be used for sporting purpose -- is that devious or what? And of course, "sporting purpose" is a rights infringement with no constitutional or historical support whatsoever, invented by domestic enemies of the right to keep and bear arms to further their cause of disarming the innocent.
If these near-total bans aren't enough, the most dangerous part may be the phrase "pistol grip" because: "The term 'pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip." In other words, any semi-auto long gun with a grip (that's ALL semi-auto long guns) would be banned under the existing proposal. It's not clear what they hope to achieve by deceptively banning guns with grips instead of just calling to ban the guns -- even an idjit can tell it's the same thing.
I didn't cover here all the magazine bans, transfer bans, dealer record-keeping and centralized reporting, and a host of nuisance details -- there will be time enough for that when the new lists are released soon: "As soon as President-elect Obama is inaugurated and the 111th Congress is sworn in," according to Ms. Brady. Congress is set to be sworn in on Jan. 6, Inauguration Day is Jan. 20.
No one expects the new proposal to be less abusive than the current one supported by the party of the Democrats. Remember -- these bans were proposed when the congressional anti-rights crowd had no chance of success. Now they are ready to run wild, or according to Sarah herself, "I have never been so confident." The "news" media has failed to report on any of this, preferring instead to blare that the incoming president supports the Second Amendment and commonsense (sic) laws.
To see the whole bill, go to http://thomas.loc.gov and search for HR 1022, (switch to the 110th Congress if the 111th has begun).
The excellent Firearms Coalition started by the late Neal Knox and now run by his family members makes these important points about the upcoming Judiciary hearings for AG nominee Holder:
"The Democrat members of the Judiciary Committee are all sworn enemies to the Second Amendment and are unlikely to be swayed at all by any firearms related arguments, but might hesitate to confirm based on Holder’s participation in the pardons of 16 Puerto Rican terrorists and billionaire financier and arms merchant Marc Rich [and perhaps the Elian Gonzalez abduction by federal agents Holder authorized]. Any letters to Democrats should focus on those issues.
"On the Republican side, Arlen Specter, the ranking Republican on the committee has never been a friend to gun rights, but he owes his reelection to NRA support and has expressed concern over the pardon issues. Among the other Republicans, most are relatively reliable votes, but only Coburn has routinely taken a leadership role on Second Amendment matters. All of them need to be pressed hard to do everything they can to block the appointment.
"For more information about Eric Holder and why his appointment must be fought tooth and nail, go to our web site at http://www.FirearmsCoalition.org ."
[hr]
