Should Felons own Firearms?
01-21-2008 | 12:16 PM
#41
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,867
Likes: 0
RE: Should Felons own Firearms?
i know in Indiana you Can be a felon by having to many traffic charges it is called a habitual traffic offender
A few weeks ago a guy shot at a friend in a car
He was drunk
He got charged with having a gun by a felon habitual traffic offender assault with a deadly weapon
reckless driving
it end up being three felons on he he wont beowning a gun for a long time
A few weeks ago a guy shot at a friend in a car
He was drunk
He got charged with having a gun by a felon habitual traffic offender assault with a deadly weapon
reckless driving
it end up being three felons on he he wont beowning a gun for a long time
ORIGINAL: devil dog
To put it in perspective; a person convicted of a felony is being punished, loss of certain rights including owning firearms, as of now, the ones that commit on the lesser side,they can get their conviction expunged in most states if they do their time, pay retrobution and keep their buts out of trouble!. But look at what it takes to accualy be convicted of a felony, I did some research befor I came back to make any more posts, arson, rape, murder, fraud, and so on were the felony charges, on toall crimes, theyare broken down and are determined if they are classified as a infraction, misdomener or a felony. Felony is the most horrid of crimes in the face of the community, to be convicted as a felon a real crime needs to be commited such as murderALSO REPEAT OFFENDERSof missdomeners are subject to be convicted as felons " they just cant stay out of trouble" I would bet that most of the Billy-Bob stories of he got into a fight and was convicted of a felony now he cant go hunt rabbits to feed his family is in fact that he probably got arrested for it more than once.. I would bet most people, other than the felons would agrea, that privlages should be lost when you cant abide the law that everyone else does. Think of when you were a child, you did something wrong, your parents would punish you, wether getting your but tore up, couldnt watch tv or whatever, they were trying to make you learn respect of the law andothers. Unfortunatly some didnt get it so sosiety and the judicial system needs to take away their toys!. If you would like to look up any of the definitions you can go to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony I would paste it here for all to see, but I dont know how to do that.
To put it in perspective; a person convicted of a felony is being punished, loss of certain rights including owning firearms, as of now, the ones that commit on the lesser side,they can get their conviction expunged in most states if they do their time, pay retrobution and keep their buts out of trouble!. But look at what it takes to accualy be convicted of a felony, I did some research befor I came back to make any more posts, arson, rape, murder, fraud, and so on were the felony charges, on toall crimes, theyare broken down and are determined if they are classified as a infraction, misdomener or a felony. Felony is the most horrid of crimes in the face of the community, to be convicted as a felon a real crime needs to be commited such as murderALSO REPEAT OFFENDERSof missdomeners are subject to be convicted as felons " they just cant stay out of trouble" I would bet that most of the Billy-Bob stories of he got into a fight and was convicted of a felony now he cant go hunt rabbits to feed his family is in fact that he probably got arrested for it more than once.. I would bet most people, other than the felons would agrea, that privlages should be lost when you cant abide the law that everyone else does. Think of when you were a child, you did something wrong, your parents would punish you, wether getting your but tore up, couldnt watch tv or whatever, they were trying to make you learn respect of the law andothers. Unfortunatly some didnt get it so sosiety and the judicial system needs to take away their toys!. If you would like to look up any of the definitions you can go to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony I would paste it here for all to see, but I dont know how to do that.
01-21-2008 | 02:20 PM
#43
Fork Horn
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
From: Upstate NY
RE: Should Felons own Firearms?
I know someone who was involved in a car accident and was convicted of vehicluar manslaughter because he pleaded guilty to racing. An oncomming car swerved off the road and the woman had a heart attack. He was very young when this happened. He can't hunt anymore. In this case I think he should be allowed to own a firearm.
01-21-2008 | 04:58 PM
#44
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: Colliers WV USA
RE: Should Felons own Firearms?
I once again find myself reading individual stories of why Joe Bob should or should not have the right to have a gun. All I can say to that is that I feel it is better to revoke the right to own and posess firearms from all felons, violent or not.
Giving Felons the blanket right to own and posess firearms only invites the 70 % that will revictimize us.........to do so while legally armed.
If a person has a legitimate argument to get their rights back, then let them go to court and present their case toget them back. I support individual cases being heard and evaluated on a case by case basis.
As for crimes committed by 15 and 16 year olds as has previously been run up and down the flagpole several times here, in most states, including mine, that record would be sealed when you turn 18, unless you are charged with one of several specific felonies that involve violent acts against persons and you are charged as an adult. If you steal a helmet when you are 16, it goes away at 18. You are not a felon. Juvenile records are sealed, even from the Army, in most cases, unless charged as an adult under those specific violent circumstances,AND.....if you committed a violent act as a juvenile and got charged as an adult, and convicted as an adult, I can do without you owning a gun, too. Sorry.
As for traffic law felons?? In my state, there are a couple of traffic felonies such as fleeing in a vehicle while drunk, injury hit and run, DUI 3rd offense, Driving While suspended for DUI 3rd offense, DUI with Death, and my all time favorite cheesiestfelony - altering a license plate. It's seems a little excessive to charge someone for felony speeding?? Even to me.
I'd also like to comment once again that to the best of my knowledge, felons lose the right to posess firearms, the right to vote, and the right to hold certain public offices. If their felony is also a traffic offense, like DUI 3rd offense, then they would also lose their driver's license. I have recently noticed that giving felons the right to vote and hold certain offices is probably going to be restored in the near future. So it would then only be the ban on guns. I dont know anything about them continuing to be penalized as suggested by bigcountry. Dont want to lose those rights? Dont commit felonies. It's that simple. It's not like they draw social security numbers to give out felonies like the lottery, right??
What we are really talking about here is the very group of people that cause all of the rest of us fill out form after form at Wal Mart to buy a dang gun when we have never committed any serious crimes. These are the people that commit the acts that get the bad laws passed. These are the people that are the poster children for gun banning groups. These are the people that are making it harder and harder for me to get a gun.
Finally, I understand that many of us are a good bit older and wiser than we were at 18. I know I personally did stuff that could have got me arrested, as have most, if not all of you. Many of the people that have posted here seem to be of the mindset to forgive and forget, at least depending on the circumstances. The problem is accountability. One of the most troubling thing I see in Law Enforcement is a total lack of accountability by most of the people I deal with on a daily basis. This is just one more argument about accountability to me.
What a person does when he or she is 18 can and will affect them for the rest of their lives. Don't commit felonies and you wont ever have to worry about it.
By the Way, in my state, there is also other classes of persons that lose their rights to own and posess a gun. The firstgroup is military personnel that get dishonorably discharged. The second group is persons habitually addicted to drugs or alcohol. The third group is persons that have been adjudicated mentally defective. Under our law, they are also all banned, just like felons. So BigCountry, lets hear it for them too, right??
I mean, come on, lets have the mentally ill, heroin addicted, drunken, felon, gun owner as a neighbor to a school...........yea that sounds good!!!!
or maybe not....
Now - as for some places wanting to make us all felonssimply because I own a safe full of guns, that I think we'll probably all agree on, lol.
Giving Felons the blanket right to own and posess firearms only invites the 70 % that will revictimize us.........to do so while legally armed.
If a person has a legitimate argument to get their rights back, then let them go to court and present their case toget them back. I support individual cases being heard and evaluated on a case by case basis.
As for crimes committed by 15 and 16 year olds as has previously been run up and down the flagpole several times here, in most states, including mine, that record would be sealed when you turn 18, unless you are charged with one of several specific felonies that involve violent acts against persons and you are charged as an adult. If you steal a helmet when you are 16, it goes away at 18. You are not a felon. Juvenile records are sealed, even from the Army, in most cases, unless charged as an adult under those specific violent circumstances,AND.....if you committed a violent act as a juvenile and got charged as an adult, and convicted as an adult, I can do without you owning a gun, too. Sorry.
As for traffic law felons?? In my state, there are a couple of traffic felonies such as fleeing in a vehicle while drunk, injury hit and run, DUI 3rd offense, Driving While suspended for DUI 3rd offense, DUI with Death, and my all time favorite cheesiestfelony - altering a license plate. It's seems a little excessive to charge someone for felony speeding?? Even to me.
I'd also like to comment once again that to the best of my knowledge, felons lose the right to posess firearms, the right to vote, and the right to hold certain public offices. If their felony is also a traffic offense, like DUI 3rd offense, then they would also lose their driver's license. I have recently noticed that giving felons the right to vote and hold certain offices is probably going to be restored in the near future. So it would then only be the ban on guns. I dont know anything about them continuing to be penalized as suggested by bigcountry. Dont want to lose those rights? Dont commit felonies. It's that simple. It's not like they draw social security numbers to give out felonies like the lottery, right??
What we are really talking about here is the very group of people that cause all of the rest of us fill out form after form at Wal Mart to buy a dang gun when we have never committed any serious crimes. These are the people that commit the acts that get the bad laws passed. These are the people that are the poster children for gun banning groups. These are the people that are making it harder and harder for me to get a gun.
Finally, I understand that many of us are a good bit older and wiser than we were at 18. I know I personally did stuff that could have got me arrested, as have most, if not all of you. Many of the people that have posted here seem to be of the mindset to forgive and forget, at least depending on the circumstances. The problem is accountability. One of the most troubling thing I see in Law Enforcement is a total lack of accountability by most of the people I deal with on a daily basis. This is just one more argument about accountability to me.
What a person does when he or she is 18 can and will affect them for the rest of their lives. Don't commit felonies and you wont ever have to worry about it.
By the Way, in my state, there is also other classes of persons that lose their rights to own and posess a gun. The firstgroup is military personnel that get dishonorably discharged. The second group is persons habitually addicted to drugs or alcohol. The third group is persons that have been adjudicated mentally defective. Under our law, they are also all banned, just like felons. So BigCountry, lets hear it for them too, right??
I mean, come on, lets have the mentally ill, heroin addicted, drunken, felon, gun owner as a neighbor to a school...........yea that sounds good!!!!
or maybe not....
Now - as for some places wanting to make us all felonssimply because I own a safe full of guns, that I think we'll probably all agree on, lol.
01-21-2008 | 05:31 PM
#45
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,867
Likes: 0
RE: Should Felons own Firearms?
how old was he
can someone answer this if you get a felony charge before your 18 and not after can you own a gun
can someone answer this if you get a felony charge before your 18 and not after can you own a gun
ORIGINAL: Duramax05
I know someone who was involved in a car accident and was convicted of vehicluar manslaughter because he pleaded guilty to racing. An oncomming car swerved off the road and the woman had a heart attack. He was very young when this happened. He can't hunt anymore. In this case I think he should be allowed to own a firearm.
I know someone who was involved in a car accident and was convicted of vehicluar manslaughter because he pleaded guilty to racing. An oncomming car swerved off the road and the woman had a heart attack. He was very young when this happened. He can't hunt anymore. In this case I think he should be allowed to own a firearm.
01-21-2008 | 05:44 PM
#46
Fork Horn
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
From: Georgia
RE: Should Felons own Firearms?
A juvinile from the age of 14 and up can be convicted as an adult as a felon if the crime permits," from the age of 14 you should know the outcome of your actions, killing, rapeing and so on". So if a 16 to 18 year old goes out and races on the streets, knows its against the law and someone ends up dead they will be charged as an adult. Encorepete, when convicted for a felony right now, loss of right to vote and hold public office's is suspended along with owning firearms.
01-21-2008 | 06:37 PM
#47
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: Colliers WV USA
RE: Should Felons own Firearms?
I should clarify some of the infommation I provided earlier.
Felonies committed by juveniles are generally broken into those that can be charged as an adult and those thatcannot.Specifically, in WV, felonies that involve violence (considered by the FBI as PartI offenses such as Rape, Robbery, Burglary, Arson, Child sexual Assault) are the crimes set up to be considered for adult prosecution of juveniles. Property crimes are not included. Traffic crimes are not included. Each state will vary on the subject.
In my state, and in most I know of, charging a juvenile as an adult is a process presentedto a judge (usually the juvenile court judge - they are normally very liberal)forconsideration before it can even happen. The cops dont decide for themselves (Thank GOD as we are not the best at making those decisions!). As such, I think you will find that it is actually very unusual for a juvenile to be charged as an adult. Perhaps in 1% of the cases, if that. I have heard that some crimes in some states are required to charge a juvenile 14 or over as an adult if they are charged withmurder, but I'm not aware of the states, or even if that is actually true.
I've seen 1 case in 15 years, an armed robbery case. That 17 year old got a 15 year sentence. He stuck a gun in a girls ear during a robbery. He got what he deserved in sentencing. Of course, if you live in a place with more crime - you may see more thant that, but it is hardly the routine the media would have us all beleive. I would bet its still under 1%. Just that your 1% is a larger sample than mine, lol.
Please dont confuse this with juveniles being sent away or locked up as juveniles - they can be and are routinely sent to facilities for incarceration and rehabilitation. They are even sometimes sent to facilities as juveniles and serve their sentences until they are 25 years old. It still only counts as a juvenile crime because that is the court of jurisdiction when the sentence is imposed. Thisis simply done through juvenile court and does not result in any permanent record upon turning 18. They do not have a fingerprint card at the state and FBI level, and therefore do not have a criminal history. Criminal histories are required to be linked to fingerprint cards taken at the time of arrest. Thats why they print a person each time they are arrested - even when the cops have 10 sets of prints on the person already.
The pointI'm trying to clarify is that just because a juvenile commits a crime does not mean that they will in any way have a criminal record, evenif they get sent away. In fact, just the opposite is true. They almost certainly dont have a permanent criminal history. They only get a criminal record permanently if they commit as serious felony (Rape, Robbery, Burglary, Arson, Child Sexual Assault) and are charged as and tried as an adult as specified for a juvenile being charged as an adult under that state's laws.
Of course they are always appointed a lawyer and represented throughout all these process at taxpayers expense regardless of what they have or have not been charged with.
Felonies committed by juveniles are generally broken into those that can be charged as an adult and those thatcannot.Specifically, in WV, felonies that involve violence (considered by the FBI as PartI offenses such as Rape, Robbery, Burglary, Arson, Child sexual Assault) are the crimes set up to be considered for adult prosecution of juveniles. Property crimes are not included. Traffic crimes are not included. Each state will vary on the subject.
In my state, and in most I know of, charging a juvenile as an adult is a process presentedto a judge (usually the juvenile court judge - they are normally very liberal)forconsideration before it can even happen. The cops dont decide for themselves (Thank GOD as we are not the best at making those decisions!). As such, I think you will find that it is actually very unusual for a juvenile to be charged as an adult. Perhaps in 1% of the cases, if that. I have heard that some crimes in some states are required to charge a juvenile 14 or over as an adult if they are charged withmurder, but I'm not aware of the states, or even if that is actually true.
I've seen 1 case in 15 years, an armed robbery case. That 17 year old got a 15 year sentence. He stuck a gun in a girls ear during a robbery. He got what he deserved in sentencing. Of course, if you live in a place with more crime - you may see more thant that, but it is hardly the routine the media would have us all beleive. I would bet its still under 1%. Just that your 1% is a larger sample than mine, lol.
Please dont confuse this with juveniles being sent away or locked up as juveniles - they can be and are routinely sent to facilities for incarceration and rehabilitation. They are even sometimes sent to facilities as juveniles and serve their sentences until they are 25 years old. It still only counts as a juvenile crime because that is the court of jurisdiction when the sentence is imposed. Thisis simply done through juvenile court and does not result in any permanent record upon turning 18. They do not have a fingerprint card at the state and FBI level, and therefore do not have a criminal history. Criminal histories are required to be linked to fingerprint cards taken at the time of arrest. Thats why they print a person each time they are arrested - even when the cops have 10 sets of prints on the person already.
The pointI'm trying to clarify is that just because a juvenile commits a crime does not mean that they will in any way have a criminal record, evenif they get sent away. In fact, just the opposite is true. They almost certainly dont have a permanent criminal history. They only get a criminal record permanently if they commit as serious felony (Rape, Robbery, Burglary, Arson, Child Sexual Assault) and are charged as and tried as an adult as specified for a juvenile being charged as an adult under that state's laws.
Of course they are always appointed a lawyer and represented throughout all these process at taxpayers expense regardless of what they have or have not been charged with.
01-21-2008 | 07:19 PM
#48
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,695
Likes: 0
From: Texas
RE: Should Felons own Firearms?
People or should I say animals that commit violent crimes are not likely to seek legal gun ownership. You arent going to keep theseanimals from getting guns.A person who is trying to legally obtain a gun is not likely to use it in a crime.
01-21-2008 | 08:17 PM
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Should Felons own Firearms?
ORIGINAL: devil dog
To put it in perspective; a person convicted of a felony is being punished, loss of certain rights including owning firearms, as of now, the ones that commit on the lesser side,they can get their conviction expunged in most states if they do their time, pay retrobution and keep their buts out of trouble!. But look at what it takes to accualy be convicted of a felony, I did some research befor I came back to make any more posts, arson, rape, murder, fraud, and so on were the felony charges, on toall crimes, theyare broken down and are determined if they are classified as a infraction, misdomener or a felony. Felony is the most horrid of crimes in the face of the community, to be convicted as a felon a real crime needs to be commited such as murderALSO REPEAT OFFENDERSof missdomeners are subject to be convicted as felons " they just cant stay out of trouble" I would bet that most of the Billy-Bob stories of he got into a fight and was convicted of a felony now he cant go hunt rabbits to feed his family is in fact that he probably got arrested for it more than once.. I would bet most people, other than the felons would agrea, that privlages should be lost when you cant abide the law that everyone else does. Think of when you were a child, you did something wrong, your parents would punish you, wether getting your but tore up, couldnt watch tv or whatever, they were trying to make you learn respect of the law andothers. Unfortunatly some didnt get it so sosiety and the judicial system needs to take away their toys!. If you would like to look up any of the definitions you can go to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony I would paste it here for all to see, but I dont know how to do that.
To put it in perspective; a person convicted of a felony is being punished, loss of certain rights including owning firearms, as of now, the ones that commit on the lesser side,they can get their conviction expunged in most states if they do their time, pay retrobution and keep their buts out of trouble!. But look at what it takes to accualy be convicted of a felony, I did some research befor I came back to make any more posts, arson, rape, murder, fraud, and so on were the felony charges, on toall crimes, theyare broken down and are determined if they are classified as a infraction, misdomener or a felony. Felony is the most horrid of crimes in the face of the community, to be convicted as a felon a real crime needs to be commited such as murderALSO REPEAT OFFENDERSof missdomeners are subject to be convicted as felons " they just cant stay out of trouble" I would bet that most of the Billy-Bob stories of he got into a fight and was convicted of a felony now he cant go hunt rabbits to feed his family is in fact that he probably got arrested for it more than once.. I would bet most people, other than the felons would agrea, that privlages should be lost when you cant abide the law that everyone else does. Think of when you were a child, you did something wrong, your parents would punish you, wether getting your but tore up, couldnt watch tv or whatever, they were trying to make you learn respect of the law andothers. Unfortunatly some didnt get it so sosiety and the judicial system needs to take away their toys!. If you would like to look up any of the definitions you can go to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony I would paste it here for all to see, but I dont know how to do that.
01-21-2008 | 08:48 PM
#50
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,410
Likes: 1
From: Comance county, OK
RE: Should Felons own Firearms?
Worked in a prison in WVas a CO. I can tell you that the averagecriminal who is convicted of a non-violent crime has done a whole bunch of crimes before he issentenced. Many violent criminals areare serving time for a non-violent offenses. Inmates sentenced for drug offenses get out of prison and go back to dope. I do not want any dope addict owning a gun.