Gorse, you sound a little heated about this whole thing. These guys were just trying to help by giving their opinion and feelings about it.

Good observation, UThunter. No, I'm not actually angry about it. Perhaps a little annoyed. This is one of those "old wive's tales" that just won't seem to die. As I said, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. It just gets in my hair when opinions, not backed up by ANY hard evidence, are projected as facts. So, I thought I'd (rather emphatically) attempt to dispel this silliness...yet again. (I've attempted this on a number of forums, for a number of years....the message never seems to sink in, for some.)

However, if I have given the impression of anger, or any offense (to anyone)...my apologies. That was not the intention.

Gorse,
I hope you don't take this the wrong way,but when you see a Rem CDL @ 649.00 and look at a Rem SPS @ 377.99.I tend to wonder about quality.
Thats why I was asking about the action,and since this is the first year it is out,I don't wanna get into a Rem 710 issue.
The finish is what I realy like about it,no-glare matte.I just wanted a project gun to do and I figuered I would work on a elk rifle,with the price of the gun + the stock I still come under the CDL price by almost a 100 bucks.
But thaks for clearing that up.
BBJ

No problem at all, Jack. I heartily agree... the large price difference would cause anyone to "wonder" about quality issues. That is an eminently rational and intelligent reaction. But, there is a difference between "wondering" about it....and deciding, within the channels of one's own mind, that there MUST be a quality difference - usually based only on preconceived notions, or prejudice (and not supported by any facts, or specialized knowledge). Hence my efforts to dispel the myth.
Asking the question, as you did, was simply the intelligent thing to do....if one doesn't know, it's wise to try and find out.

It really can be brought down to a simple principle, I think - keeping an open mind, until one has enough facts in hand to be able to arrive at an informed conclusion. That can be tough, as good information is not always easily obtainable....but it starts with thinking things through - and not allowing our personal "foibles" to colour our judgement.

Wow it did get your panties in a wad. First off I mentioned that my BDL action is better finished then the SPS I handled. I think that is plenty of hard evidence in my book especially since I have gone out of my way buying Remingtons in about every variation they make. Knowing how Remington has very little quality control or none and how much time the average Remington worker puts into a particular rifle the quality is very inconsistent. A very good friend makes a nice living fixing and upgradingremingtons and making them what they should be and hopefully Remington will continue their downward slide thereby keeping him in business. The last 17 years the quality had just been going steadily downhill with only the good ones being sold to JamesB. I view them as donor actions at bestand that is it just usingthe action and bolt.. I am not even bothering with their floorplates anymore..Now what did you want to hear?

Well, as a last comment, I will say this. Your assertion that Remington "has no quality control....and that the quality has been sliding downhill for 17 years".... is just exactly the kind of unsubstantiated drivel with which I have taken issue. You spoke about "hard evidence", then made this incredibly broad assertion - which you cannot prove in any way. I happen to know that this statement you've made is nonsense. So, because you don't like the finish on the SPS...it's obviously inferior to the other models ? Baloney. Your friend, who accurizes Remingtons, says that they are junk ? If so, then why would he waste his time with them ? Obviously, they have some good potential (so they are not junk, are they ?) ...or your friend is a fool, perhaps ? Certainly either you or he have seen Remington's facilities...so that you have some real evidence to support your claims ? Or you have metalurgy reports, which indicate that the "cheaper" Remingtons are truly inferior to the more expensive models ? No? I didn't think so.

I've owned 6 Remingtons (1-Model 7 and 5- 700s) over the last 15 years, or so. Every one has been a very good rifle. I have never experienced a bad barrel (all of mine would shoot 1 MOA or less @ 100 metres, with the right loads)....I have never had any reliability issues, either. I have not seen any decrease in quality, as well. The metalurgy is the same as it always has been...unless my friend, the engineer, is lying. Hmm...so, I'd have to say, in addition to the direct knowledge I have of my particular rifles...and the indirect knowledge I have from my friend (who WORKED at Remington, in charge of many of the production processes they use)....and the things that I have seen there (which contradict your assertions).... that you are likely just talking out of your a**.

If you don't like Remingtons, that's fine....don't buy them. Are they the greatest thing since sliced bread....or the finest - made firearms in existence ? Of course not. Are they perfect ? Again, of course not. They are no more (or less) perfect than any other similar firearms. They are certainly equal to the others on the market, in the same price ranges...and perhaps, better than some.

As I said before, please don't try to sell - what you don't have. Some of us do know better... and are not buying the bull.

For whatever it's worth (remember, information is worth EXACTLY what you paid for it!) the Rems DO use the same actions (unless you get a hand finished or "touched up" Custom Shop version) in all their guns. The simple point being made was that the ADL/SPS 700s feel like they are full of sand compared too a bright, shiny and highly polished BDL/CDL. But wouldn't a Ferrari look and feel like chit also if it were merely primered instead of painted?

As for the QC of Rem, I gotta admit that across the board, most of their guns are decent. BUT on their cheaper guns they DO seem to have alot more troubles. BUT is that really a QC problem or the fact that more and more of the parts being used in those lines is stamped potmetal or molded plastic? I have a 20 year old ADL 06 whose action is as smooth as butter and has been since day one. I'm sure if I even painted the bolt on my Sako with that "blacksand" coating of Rems, it to would feel like chit. I also HATE that quality of that finish, within a year or two it will turn silver, slick up and the gun will rust badly if abnormal attention is not paid too it. I recommend a stainless SPS for just such reasons.

Dats my .01/2c,
RA

I don't like the finish so it is inferior..not exactly what I said I just said it was inferior to that of my one year old remington ss BDL.

In all my life I have never come across more defects in a rifle then when buying Remingtons no one other manufacturereven comes close. Their quality has taken a decided turn for the worst and I can point to the late 80's as the starting point. I have been buying Remingtons since the early 70's and have many older then that .. I have had lots of themcustomized which turned out to be good guns although I could have bought a Sako with the money I spent putting them up to my specs. Three unfortunately came from the "custom shop" a mistake I will never make again. Never has so much money gained me so little gun. When It comes to Remingtons I basically like the action and trigger as well as the physical weight, when the gun is built right it is a great combination.


Another Gorse misquote

...my gunsmith friend never said they were junk ..where did I say he said that?. He absolutely loves Remingtons when they are nice and straight and have a decent barrel and trigger on them. If they show up at his shop in bad condition they leavethe way they should have left REmington but never will. Ever since they made their little Mass retailer deals Walmart/Kmart (coincidentally in the mid 80's)production has been the driver and quality has taken a back seat or trunk in this case. If your Industrial engineer buddy at Remington didn't pick up on this I am not surprised since many companies not just Remington don't know how to put out a quality product and being an industrial engineer has nothing to do with Quality, his job was to put out x amount of POS per day and make sure the process goes smoothly. Remington has ceased being a gun company a long time ago and only care about bottom line and are milking the 700 for all its worth and resting on their laurels. Believe it or not I used to live up the road from theircorporate hdqtrs and many of my neighbors were and no longer are employees there. I have personally never met a happy employee that worked there, not a one.About a year ago I posted "My Last Remington" go look it up and see just what I said about them. To wrap this up here is my final say to you on the matter .New remingtons are only good for donor actions and that is as far as it goes.. Barrel ,recoil lug,trigger and cheap floorplate and stockget sold on Ebay immediately. I would take a Savage or Howa over one in a heart beat if I needed a factory rifle for the gun safe . Those 2 companies have quality control and Remington would do well to mimic them. . TheHard evidence you are looking for is that I have spent thousands of dollars on Remington products over the years, probably could have gone on many great hunting trips had I not done this in retrospect.. I didn't read a article on them and form an opinion or listen to idiotic internet hearsay .I went out to a full service gun store looked at them and formed an opinion and compared them to anydthing out there and usually purchased them knowing that something or another would have to be changed modified or fixed . In effect I become a guinea pig . After 50+ remingtons I have plenty of "Hard Evidence" and your opinion starting to sound like a lot of Total BS. When you purchase as many Remingtons as I have and seen the quailty swings and have money come out of your pocket and dealt with their customer servicethen you can feel qualified to speak about it. Right now I don't think you have a clue. BTW you can use the ignore button on my posts as I have graciously done the samefor you. Oh yeah and untwist your panties

Same Action, and knock it if you will but I bet they will shoot one inch and most likely less.. I will soon know as I have one ordered. Never yet seen a Remington with a load they like that won't better one inch. My last one , a 2002 shot under half inch. Three shot 100 yard groups, (257 Roberts)

"New remingtons are only good for donor actions and that is as far as it goes.. Barrel ,recoil lug,trigger and cheap floorplate and stockget sold on Ebay immediately."

Wow! This tread has really heated up. From my experience, the above statement is pure horse hockey. I have 2 Model 700 BDL's and other than minor trigger adjustments that took a total of 15 minutes, they have both been excellent rifles. Both of mine (.270 and .223) will shoot 1 MOA on a good day with factory ammo.The ones I see in my part of the country (and I am only looking at BDL's and CDL's with wood stocks) have been of excellent quality. I am currently looking at a 700 CDL in .243 and both that I have looked at so far have been beautiful....nice slick actions and beautiful wood to metal fit and finish. I see these rifles bashed from time to time, but just about every "Poll" I look at, Remingtons rank right at the top. If you don't like them, don't buy them, but statements like the above are pure baloney and unfounded.