If you use these neat lil gizmo's, be sure to test your setup. On my Phoenix, they were sliding up onto the vanes in flight and yes, I had the right size. The fix is a small rubber "O" ring behind the grappler. W/ my Emax, they are a waste of time and $. They work great for me at about 290 fps and w/ the Max at 330, they blow right through the bird. You Ecet guys are gonna be somewhere inbetween. I found no change in poi at 30 and they weigh about 20 gr, this is w/ Slick Trick 100 gr bheads.

I had the same results with a mech broad head. 100gr. Silver Strike (Easton). After loosing a bird last year will not shoot with out it. Also shooting a Phoenix....Bill

I do alot of small game hunting with a bow and use the judo points, one of the main reasons I like them is that the tip grabs the ground in the case of a miss and stops the arrow fairly fast, which keeps you from hunting lost arrows...

I've never used those grapplers, although they're pretty much the same design except that the judos' fingers are fixed to the tip and the grapplers slide up the shaft,how do they perform with an impact with the ground/brush?

Iwouldnt mind giving them a try but I've always been king of skeptical of them, the last thing I want is the grappler stripping my feathers off as it slides up the arrow...

Last spring a guy my Dad was guiding rented my Exomax crossbow to shoot a turkey. I had grapplers on behind wasp sst mech broadheads. The arrow blew right through the turkey and the grappler slid up the shaft(leaving scratches on the graphite all the way) stripped two of the vanes off and the third was beyond repair. That mangled vane would probably have occured anyway with a pass through.

A washer is a great idea!
I use needle nose pliers and give a slight squeeze to the ring that keeps the 4 pieces together, makes it a bit tougher to get on over the field point but stays in place much better on impact.
Now I just need to figure out how to use them with broadheads, every time I try to slide on over my Slick Trickto get one on I cut my finger.

As mentioned in org. post by Awshucks, if you put a rubber "O" ring behind the grappler it won't take the fletching's off as the grappler will only go about half way up the shaft. I shoot a phoenix and use a #5 o-ring---3/8 OD x 1/4 ID x 1/16....Bill

Awshucks, what size shaft and type of shaft are you using. I have heard of problems with the graphite arrows, but have not heard of many problems with the allum arrows. What you can do if your using 2216 serries is use the size for the 2117 arrow (tighter fit). Another option might be a light rubber band wrapped arround the shaft (you could adjust the tightness for the added friction you want),

My dad with the Expmag has not had problems with his Scropios, other then have them stop on the fletching while in the game. But as he says, the cost of fletching is minute to harvest a birs.

Hope this helps.

Tom, I'm shooting GT Lazar II's. I had some weight variations i couldn't figure out, then awhile back someone posted GT had some out there that had smaller shaft od's than their normal fare. This could have been the problem as whenI posted this last year on Excal forum, it seemed to be a new one on them. Had heard of dropping a size like you suggested but was afraid they might just shoot through the bird if they were too tight. The o ring works great for me, was mostly trying to let the heavier bow guys know they might pass through anyhow.

No problem.

I think that the allum arrows are gripped better by the springs (on the shaft) then the graphite. I have actually bought the size too large( could not get correct size) and with needle nose pliers did some bending and had them work great. I actually believe that they were tighter then the correct size,

Actually when I first researched arrow arrestors, rubber bands, washersm o-rings where what alot of people used,

Good luck and talk to ya later.