I can look down on you for using a compound
04-09-2005, 07:06 AM
#41
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 77
RE: I can look down on you for using a compound
Data my 2 cents again,
I don't hate crossbows I don't want my own season eather, the best hunting I do is on high pressured deer during gun season with my bow. Please don't take a sentance out cut it up for your crossbows, this is just my opinion.
You have heard this before, The only reason that I think that they should not be in the woods during bowhunting is because when they are used to harvest game. They are used like a gun. I know there projectile is 100% more like any bow, But when used. Shouldering, looking through a scope, being already cocked, and the alot less motion when used to shoot "for me" makes it more like a gun than a bow. If it's a Compound, Recurve, or Flatbow. It is not preloaded, has a scope, or shouldered. For me that is the determining factors that seperates them only for hunting situations. As far as archery equiptment it belongs in an archery class. But for hunting it is by far, more of an advantage over all other equiptment in that season. even more so a compound over traditional equp. When I get boared with a compound I will be on the Trad side of the house.
When Muzzelloaders are used for hunting, there all used in a simular fation that does'nt give one a massive advantage over the other. They might be fired different, but there used the same.
When rifels are used for hunting there used in a simulsr fation, there are different ranges and actions, but when used for hunting there used in a simular fation.
When a crossbow is used for hunting, it is used in a fation more simular to a gun, rather than a Bow. That is all. Once again I know it's enegery, projectile and range is more like a bow, but the differance is, again IMO, closer to a gun than a bow.
For me It's not a matter of having my own season, not wanting them in the woods, or there just so different lets get rid of them forever. They are just way more closer to a gun when used to harvest game. The best example I can currently use is hunt Turkeys with any bow and arrow not useing a blind. Then go and hunt a Turkey not useing a blind with a crossbow, and then people will see it is more like a gun when used in a hunting situation ONLY. My concerns are only in a hunting situation, ther rest are the same.
I don't hate crossbows I don't want my own season eather, the best hunting I do is on high pressured deer during gun season with my bow. Please don't take a sentance out cut it up for your crossbows, this is just my opinion.
You have heard this before, The only reason that I think that they should not be in the woods during bowhunting is because when they are used to harvest game. They are used like a gun. I know there projectile is 100% more like any bow, But when used. Shouldering, looking through a scope, being already cocked, and the alot less motion when used to shoot "for me" makes it more like a gun than a bow. If it's a Compound, Recurve, or Flatbow. It is not preloaded, has a scope, or shouldered. For me that is the determining factors that seperates them only for hunting situations. As far as archery equiptment it belongs in an archery class. But for hunting it is by far, more of an advantage over all other equiptment in that season. even more so a compound over traditional equp. When I get boared with a compound I will be on the Trad side of the house.
When Muzzelloaders are used for hunting, there all used in a simular fation that does'nt give one a massive advantage over the other. They might be fired different, but there used the same.
When rifels are used for hunting there used in a simulsr fation, there are different ranges and actions, but when used for hunting there used in a simular fation.
When a crossbow is used for hunting, it is used in a fation more simular to a gun, rather than a Bow. That is all. Once again I know it's enegery, projectile and range is more like a bow, but the differance is, again IMO, closer to a gun than a bow.
For me It's not a matter of having my own season, not wanting them in the woods, or there just so different lets get rid of them forever. They are just way more closer to a gun when used to harvest game. The best example I can currently use is hunt Turkeys with any bow and arrow not useing a blind. Then go and hunt a Turkey not useing a blind with a crossbow, and then people will see it is more like a gun when used in a hunting situation ONLY. My concerns are only in a hunting situation, ther rest are the same.
04-09-2005, 07:07 AM
#42
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location:
Posts: 179
RE: I can look down on you for using a compound
Datamax, In all my communication on this site I take extra effort to be polite and considerate.This is for a number of reasons but one of the biggest is that I want to be part of the solution not part of the problem,I want to work toward things that bring us together in the hunting community not spread us apart! I love to hunt,I live for it,And I fear that because of the devisiveness within our ranks we are slowly going to lose our hunting priveleges.
I do not agree with you as to how easy you believe it is to be capable of hunting with a compound.You have a right to your opinion but you are wrong,you may be sincerely wrong,but wrong none the less.Being target proficient at 20 yards and hunting proficient at 20 yards are worlds apart from a competence perspective.To suggest otherwise is irresponsible!!
Rather than us sniping back in forth which is an aggravation and a waste of time,if you feel that you want to persist with your ill advised opinion.I suggest a wager.You come up with the 10 most well known compound shooters,guys that we have all heard of,Chuck Adams,Randy Ulmer,Terry Ragsdale.Bobby Ketcher,Rod White as examples.I will contact every one of them to see what period of time they feel is necessary to be hunting competent with a compound.For every one of them that feels that You can be hunting ready within a day of being set up with their new equipment I will buy you a dozen arrows,and for every one who feels that it will take longer than a day you will buy me a dozen arrows.I will post their exact responses by attachment.
Either take me up on this or stop with the misinformation!
I do not agree with you as to how easy you believe it is to be capable of hunting with a compound.You have a right to your opinion but you are wrong,you may be sincerely wrong,but wrong none the less.Being target proficient at 20 yards and hunting proficient at 20 yards are worlds apart from a competence perspective.To suggest otherwise is irresponsible!!
Rather than us sniping back in forth which is an aggravation and a waste of time,if you feel that you want to persist with your ill advised opinion.I suggest a wager.You come up with the 10 most well known compound shooters,guys that we have all heard of,Chuck Adams,Randy Ulmer,Terry Ragsdale.Bobby Ketcher,Rod White as examples.I will contact every one of them to see what period of time they feel is necessary to be hunting competent with a compound.For every one of them that feels that You can be hunting ready within a day of being set up with their new equipment I will buy you a dozen arrows,and for every one who feels that it will take longer than a day you will buy me a dozen arrows.I will post their exact responses by attachment.
Either take me up on this or stop with the misinformation!
04-09-2005, 07:10 AM
#43
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Montana
Posts: 586
RE: I can look down on you for using a compound
I have been fighting a similar battle after a bad experience last year. It was wrestling season, and I had just stalked past some does toward a 5x6 mulie. I then called him closer using sign language.
Next thing I knew there was another hunter just above him in a tree. He was using some kind of wooden buck call. Probably made it with power tools. And I'll bet he bought the rubber band at some hardware store. Anybody can buy an artificial rubber band!
Anyway, he calls the buck away from me with his noise maker, jumped the buck from out of the tree, and stabbed him with some fancy alloy knife!
If that's a challenge to him, so be it. I can respect that. But what used to be traditinal ground wrestling season with conventional heads up tackling is sure getting easy if you can hide in a tree and just jump 'em with a knife.
We have formed a coalition to make knife season a seperate season altogether. But so far Montana's fish/wildlife won't even listen. I am not being selfish here. There is plenty of time between wrestling and spear season to have a knife season.
Next thing I knew there was another hunter just above him in a tree. He was using some kind of wooden buck call. Probably made it with power tools. And I'll bet he bought the rubber band at some hardware store. Anybody can buy an artificial rubber band!
Anyway, he calls the buck away from me with his noise maker, jumped the buck from out of the tree, and stabbed him with some fancy alloy knife!
If that's a challenge to him, so be it. I can respect that. But what used to be traditinal ground wrestling season with conventional heads up tackling is sure getting easy if you can hide in a tree and just jump 'em with a knife.
We have formed a coalition to make knife season a seperate season altogether. But so far Montana's fish/wildlife won't even listen. I am not being selfish here. There is plenty of time between wrestling and spear season to have a knife season.
04-09-2005, 07:54 AM
#44
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Posts: 957
RE: I can look down on you for using a compound
ORIGINAL: jones123
I have been fighting a similar battle after a bad experience last year. It was wrestling season, and I had just stalked past some does toward a 5x6 mulie. I then called him closer using sign language.
Next thing I knew there was another hunter just above him in a tree. He was using some kind of wooden buck call. Probably made it with power tools. And I'll bet he bought the rubber band at some hardware store. Anybody can buy an artificial rubber band!
Anyway, he calls the buck away from me with his noise maker, jumped the buck from out of the tree, and stabbed him with some fancy alloy knife!
If that's a challenge to him, so be it. I can respect that. But what used to be traditinal ground wrestling season with conventional heads up tackling is sure getting easy if you can hide in a tree and just jump 'em with a knife.
We have formed a coalition to make knife season a seperate season altogether. But so far Montana's fish/wildlife won't even listen. I am not being selfish here. There is plenty of time between wrestling and spear season to have a knife season.
I have been fighting a similar battle after a bad experience last year. It was wrestling season, and I had just stalked past some does toward a 5x6 mulie. I then called him closer using sign language.
Next thing I knew there was another hunter just above him in a tree. He was using some kind of wooden buck call. Probably made it with power tools. And I'll bet he bought the rubber band at some hardware store. Anybody can buy an artificial rubber band!
Anyway, he calls the buck away from me with his noise maker, jumped the buck from out of the tree, and stabbed him with some fancy alloy knife!
If that's a challenge to him, so be it. I can respect that. But what used to be traditinal ground wrestling season with conventional heads up tackling is sure getting easy if you can hide in a tree and just jump 'em with a knife.
We have formed a coalition to make knife season a seperate season altogether. But so far Montana's fish/wildlife won't even listen. I am not being selfish here. There is plenty of time between wrestling and spear season to have a knife season.
Great job, jones.
04-09-2005, 08:23 AM
#46
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location:
Posts: 2,678
RE: I can look down on you for using a compound
I still say a cross bow is crap
You have nothing better to do that sit around and stir up crap.
]
If you can practice hundreds of hours and still be out shot by some lazy slob shooting a 20 year old compound that only practices the week before season you should really consider hanging that recurve on the wall and sticking with your compound. And if this is the case like you admit.. You must really suck with one. Someone with such poor shooting skills really should not be looking down on people.
My point is - if you have never shot trad, if you've never hunted with a trad bow in your hand, you don't have a clue.
Arthur P - I thin kyou know what I'm saying. While we don't have the same opinion of the crossbow being legal, I think you understand what I'm getting at.
Oh ....... and that kind of draw just aint right man !
flat feet - your argument is based on the motions that the crossbow is used to shoot vs the motions of a compound ? Shouldering and sqeezing a trigger while at 100% letoff vs holding the bow target style, drawing the bow with a triggered release, holding full draw but only 15% of the weight of the draw, and squeezing the trigger.
I acknowledge those differences and at the same time I know the huge differences in drawing on a deer with a compound vs drawing on them with a longbow/recurve. I've been there and done that and its a huge difference.
Can you not see that ?
When Muzzelloaders are used for hunting, there all used in a simular fation that does'nt give one a massive advantage over the other. They might be fired different, but there used the same.
When rifels are used for hunting there used in a simulsr fation, there are different ranges and actions, but when used for hunting there used in a simular fation.
When a crossbow is used for hunting, it is used in a fation more simular to a gun, rather than a Bow. That is all. Once again I know it's enegery, projectile and range is more like a bow, but the differance is, again IMO, closer to a gun than a bow.
Try turky hunting with no blind and a recurve !
tocs -
Being target proficient at 20 yards and hunting proficient at 20 yards are worlds apart from a competence perspective.To suggest otherwise is irresponsible!!
I'll make you a better bet tocs. I can take YOUR compound and practice with it tonight and kill a deer tommorrow with it. Heck, I'll take your compound, let my neighbor shoot it (and he's never shot a bow before) and he'll be shooting good groups tommorrow.
Is he ready to hunt ? Why not ? You and I and any of those "experts" would of course say he needs a lot more practice. But you cannot force that, you cannot dictate it and its naive to think a LOT of archers don't get ready the week before season.
It happens every year - and the modern compound bow is so good that they can do it.
Do you remember that HUGE buck that was killed last fall ? The guy's bow was so old that the upper limbs broke and he still killed the huge buck. Unreal ......... but true.
But coming back to your points - some guys shoot all year with trad bows and IMO they shouldn't take any shots > 10 yards. I know a guy who shoots year round, actually he shoots pretty good but in 8 years now hasn't killed a deer. Guys that shoot in the upper 290's at 3D courses miss deer - guys who shoot he day before season can go out and kill 3 deer with 3 shots.
And I DO agree with the theory that we should all pracitce hard, and be dedicated etc etc - but the modern compound bow allows guys to not have to do that. The crossbow does too. The recurve/longbow you can't really get away with doing that - but people do anyway. Its just the way it is.
04-09-2005, 08:46 AM
#47
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: I can look down on you for using a compound
...we should all pracitce hard, and be dedicated...
04-09-2005, 08:52 AM
#48
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 117
RE: I can look down on you for using a compound
Data,
Sorry about your back and neck pain.
I just think crossbow is not the same. Like the other guy said.. They are shot more like a rifle. No sense in arguing because you have your view and I have mine.
Dude if recurves are that hard to shoot then I believe they should be illegal. Damn. If Fred bear can have 2 clean misses then how many gut or leg shots have you made. That is completely unethical.
Sorry about your back and neck pain.
I just think crossbow is not the same. Like the other guy said.. They are shot more like a rifle. No sense in arguing because you have your view and I have mine.
I watched a Fred Bear video the other night - a mule deer hunt and a bear hunt among others. Fred won tournaments and was one of the better archers ever. Damn fine shooter. He clean missed 2 bear2 before a shooting the 3rd perfectly.
My point is - if you have never shot trad, if you've never hunted with a trad bow in your hand, you don't have a clue.
My point is - if you have never shot trad, if you've never hunted with a trad bow in your hand, you don't have a clue.
04-09-2005, 08:56 AM
#49
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location:
Posts: 2,678
RE: I can look down on you for using a compound
I was in the shower (trying to get this damn neck to stop hurting) and asked myself ........ why would I choose a crossbow ? Injury obviously .......... but why else ? I can only think that its because they're easy, don't require much practice and afford me pretty good shooting skills. I don't thinking shooting one would be much fun - not compared to my recurve for sure.
I think everyone will agree with that - right ? So I then asked myself (a long shower guys) why would I choose a compound ? Well, I DID choose a compound last fall ... why ? Ease of use, i didn't have to practice much with it - it afforded me good shooting without weeks and months of practicing. Compounds use to be fun for me - not so much the shooting but the tinkering with new gadgets. I quit them looking for more challenge, more fun I suppose - the compound doesn't compare to the recurve in those depts.
Isn't the reasons the same for choosing either then ?
I think everyone will agree with that - right ? So I then asked myself (a long shower guys) why would I choose a compound ? Well, I DID choose a compound last fall ... why ? Ease of use, i didn't have to practice much with it - it afforded me good shooting without weeks and months of practicing. Compounds use to be fun for me - not so much the shooting but the tinkering with new gadgets. I quit them looking for more challenge, more fun I suppose - the compound doesn't compare to the recurve in those depts.
Isn't the reasons the same for choosing either then ?
04-09-2005, 09:06 AM
#50
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: I can look down on you for using a compound
Recurves are more difficult to shoot well, and many love the challenge of shooting them. I do. But that's not an excuse for taking shots outside one's 100% effectiveness distance. At the same time, we have to remember that Bear and the others of his time were trying to prove big game animals could be taken with bows and arrows, trying to get archery seasons established. The only way they could do that was to put arrows in the air. And, to do that, they did take shots (body angles and distances) we would consider unethical today. However, don't judge the ethics standards of the past by today's standards.
Honestly, in a number of ways, I consider a recurve or longbow superior to the compound as a hunting tool. Especially a compound that's shot with sights. Sights confine the shooter to holding his bow perfectly perpendicular, where a stickbow can be canted to get clearance for the limbs. They take extra time to stabilize the sight picture and sometimes sights cannot be seen in lighting conditions where the animal is plainly visible. Even shooting my compound without sights, I can not get a shot off as quick with a compound as I can with a stickbow. The breakover slows down my draw and disrupts my aim.
The big plus for the compound is I am deadly to 30 yards with it, vs 15-20 yards with the recurve. That extra 10 yards adds a lot of territory to the area I can effectively cover. Another plus is I can handle a good 15 pounds more draw weight with it than I can with a stickbow.
Honestly, in a number of ways, I consider a recurve or longbow superior to the compound as a hunting tool. Especially a compound that's shot with sights. Sights confine the shooter to holding his bow perfectly perpendicular, where a stickbow can be canted to get clearance for the limbs. They take extra time to stabilize the sight picture and sometimes sights cannot be seen in lighting conditions where the animal is plainly visible. Even shooting my compound without sights, I can not get a shot off as quick with a compound as I can with a stickbow. The breakover slows down my draw and disrupts my aim.
The big plus for the compound is I am deadly to 30 yards with it, vs 15-20 yards with the recurve. That extra 10 yards adds a lot of territory to the area I can effectively cover. Another plus is I can handle a good 15 pounds more draw weight with it than I can with a stickbow.