thesource

I call Bullcrap! While pretty much every one will agree that traditional equipment is tougher to shoot well than a compound, shooting a compound is not like falling off a log.

You are either exagerating the simplicity in a cheap attempt to prove your undefendable position, or you are flat out lying.

You can do better than that.

datamax

Define ethical ? Is ethical shooting targets in the 290's and going into the woods and wounding deer ? Some of the best target shooters suck at killing deer. Some of the poorer shooters on the 3D range fill all their tags every fall.

IF you are suggesting that poor shooters give up their choice of weapons ........ and IF crossbows allowed them MORE accuracy then why aren't you FOR allowing crossbows i the name of ethical shooting ?

I went 6 years I think without missing with my compound. I picked up my longbow and started shooting. I went to 3 3D shoots and placed #3, #2 and #4 overall in them I think it was. My shooting is pretty good - I'm not afraid to go against anyone when my neck aint hurting

Anyway, I cleanly missed a very large bull the first day I took my longbow into the woods. Clean missed him at 25 yards. Never, ever would I have missed that elk with a compound or crossbow. I then went to KS and one afternoon missed a nice buck (I know what happened there) and then 30 minutes later drilled a 140" + 5x6 buck.

I figured I had this trad thing master at this point. I'd taken my learning lumps, missed twice but killed my 3rd buck clean.

This fall I was hunting again, a new bow (another bow) this time, and I clean missed the biggest buck I ever had a chance to shoot in AR. Aftre that 20 yard miss, he came right under my stand. I was 12' up, he was 15 foot from my tree ........ and I took the shot. Instead of drilling down in between the shoulders, I missed and hit only the off shoulder. I never found that buck.

So I'm now 1-5 on shooting with a kill, 3 misses and a wound. NOT GOOD. So I'm in Kanas, huge buck country ...... and my shooting (practice) sucks. I knew what to do - and I picked up the compound, practiced one night and 3 days later killed my non-typical buck.

So ... do you think I should hunt with a recurve this fall ? Well, I sold that new bow, I've got a Hoyt Gamemaster recurve now, and up until my shoulder/neck pains I was shooting it very well. Assuming I'll be physically able to hunt this fall and I'm sure I will be, I'll be hunting with my recurve. I'll be picky on my shot selection, and recurve accuracy isn't compound accuracy by any means. But my personal ethics, my personal challenges. If I was looking for a bow to maximize my chances at filling a tag ........... I'd buy me a Mathews Q2XL or another one of the longer ATA risers Mathews, I'd shoot a whisker biscuit and weighted carbons tipped with expandables and shoot a single pin, adjustable sight.

But its more than the shooting aspect - its the personal challenge, the setting of goals, the accomplishment of doing it "the hard way"

and how does all this tie into crossbows ? Compounders look down on them because they're easy and don't require as much dedication and practice and never once think that trad shooters could say the same about them []

datamax

thesource - I can say that with confidence because I've known quite a few guys that picked up my compounds, or that bought compounds that I helped tune, and they were shooting very nice groups in short order.

I know ya'll want to believe compounds are tough to shoot - but they aren't. Mathews, Hoyts, AR, Bowtech ... they DESIGN bows to be easy to shoot. The sights, the rests, the triggered releases ........ all designed to make your shooting easier, better and more accurate.

You don't agree thats what they do ?

thesource

Yea - I'd call 1-5 unethical. Could have been 1 kill and 4 wounds just as easy. That's piss poor shooting, and you bitch about compounders taking the easy way out? How about you hold your fire until they come into your kill range - even if that means 10 yds?

aeroslinger

Arthur, good post. Sure glad you came back from your sabattical.

thesource

I do agree compounds make shooting accurately easier.

I don't agree its as simple as pulling a trigger. You and I both know the complexities of shooting any hand held bow, including torque, anchoring, follow through, etc.

I've spent enough time teaching newcomers to the sport how to shoot a bow that just because I can shoot my well tuned, set up for me, shot a 1000 arrows with it compound into good groups doesn't mean that every one can do it.

If it were so simple, why bother having tournaments? We'd all shoot perfect scores.

datamax

Call it what you want - you have your opinion. You think I should hang the recurve up for a crossbow instead ?

And crossbows are just another easy, aren't they ?

You are confusing simplicity with absolute perfection. Not the same thing. Tell me, what were the last scores from your 3D shoot ? Compound and recurve scores ?

tocs

Datamax, I am still trying hard to figure out what your intent is with this thread! You passed on my wager which you knew you would lose!Why would I value the significance of a neighbor of yours abiltiy to effectively use a bow you set up for them,when you yourself agreed that target competency and hunting competency are vastly different.You are not making a point that supports ethical hunting.So what is your point?
No one would contest that shooting a recurve or long bow is much more difficult than shooting a compound.(is that your point)
You have not and can not establish that using a compound is easy,easier than traditional yes,much easier.(If you want to weakly support your opinion again my wager is still on the table!)
Are you in favor of more stringent competency testing by our hunter education departments before we can take to the field with a particular weapon?(Bring it on in my opinion!)
Probably like so many other people that participate in this forum you scan the threads to see if you recognize a particular poster someone who has expressed themselves well in the past,someone whose views you agree with.One of the first threads I read was when you described your hunt where you switched from stick bow to compound on that hunt because you felt it was the ethical thing to do.I thought here is a guy who is admirable,he did the right thing.Now you are throwing all this BS around and I am trying to make sense of it.Maybe if I understood your motivation more clearly it would make sense.
To use a weapon for the sake of using it,whether it be for the challenge,the romance of using just stick and string or whatever does not justify a lack of competence.If you can throw a rock and kill humanely 9 out of 10 times I have no problem with that.If you can drill Robin hoods with your stick and string at forty yards,but your shot to kill ratio on game is less than 8 out of every 10 times,I have a problem with that!
For most of us the time necessary to become proficient with traditional equipment is not available.Family,Work,Faith,giving to your community etc..
Again I will say that we are our own worst enemies with the proficiency and behavior that we condone among our hunting community! It would be fine with me if we had much stricter proficiency requirements.If we lost hunters because of it,they were hunters who shouldn't have been in the woods any way.

aeroslinger

tocs, he posted the "story" of switching to a compound after and to support the ridiculous post about crossbows, both solely to slam compounds. Most people aren't "anti-crossbow", they just feel they belong in a different season. It has nothing to do with feeling superior or jealous which seems to be the case with some people. Even if someone was making their own bows and arrows like early man, which he isn't, most would not feel the need to slam someone else. Otherwise, he is using equipment which has evolved and uses modern tecniques and deciding where he wants to draw the line and slam everybody else like he is something special. If thats what he needs to feel good about himself. Here in Texas, if someone wants to shoot a crossbow, they can legally do so in regular season and if they are handicapped they can in archery season also, which may not be the case in some states but I believe is fair and should be. Your pissin' in the wind arguing with him because he just twists and bends and avoids all to end up trying to tell anyone who shoots a compound they are inferior to him.

flat feet

Data, Sir I do agree that there is allot of differance in the trad side of the house, and the compounds. I don't think it's a large enough seperation to seperate them even if you are only holding 15% of the weight, but the crossbow is still allot more different than any bow when hunting.

Again I agree that when launching the projectile to it's target there simular. I will never diney how close they are in terms forcing the projectile down range. That is not the concern I have with them, but what is, is using it during a season set up for Bows to harvest game. That is why I see them as needing to be with a gun season. So once again. There used more like a gun and not a bow when in a hunting situation

Even if we do break down the Muzzelloaders, and rifles, there still used in a season with weapons that are used in a simular fation. Unlike what we are talking about with the crossbows, compared with all other bows.