Double Creek

Ok.. here is your 1 negative with using xbows. If you are keeping up with hits and misses you would start with 0. Then, lets say you shoot and miss with an xbow That would be minus 1. So... the equation is as follows....

0-1=-1 There you go, I did it!!! There is your negative 1 about crossbows....












yes, i have entirely to much time on my hands[8D]

Arthur P

Datamax, just to make sure you understand... Texas only allows crossbows in bow season for people with a permanent disability that prevents them from shooting a conventional bow. They are allowed in our general season without restriction. We have them in general season, but not in bow season.

Side note, even though they are legal in general season, I have never once seen anyone using one. I run across lots of BOWhunters in general season, but not crossbow hunters. So, I wonder. Where in the world are all these rabid crossbow fans that are being 'prevented' from hunting? Seems to me, if they really wanted to hunt with their crossbows, they'd be out there hunting with 'em. They're not.

As far as I can tell, that argument is based on hunters who simply do not exist. The ONLY way they will exist is if the manufacturers are able to sucker the states into opening bow seasons to crossbows and automatically create a market for their products.

BigJ71

Flat Feet,

I really don't remember if any of the anti-crossbow people ever answered that question.

I understand that most of this debate is based on opinion that is why I am trying to inject some facts. I don't think I will get too much of an argument against the statement: "The states that do allow crossbows during their archery season now, have shown no ill effect from them" That is not my opinion, it's a fact. Unless you or anyone else has information to the contrary.
I also don't think I will get too much of an argument with the statement: "The best case study to find out if crossbows in archery season will effect your state is to look at the states that already allow them" While that may or may not be a fact I think it's the best way to determine that question. Unless of course you or anybody else can think of a better case study, at which I would like to hear it.

So now we have two statements that are as far from an opinion as I can possibly get them.

Now using this information I can extrapolate that there would be no ill effects if crossbows were allowed into other states archery seasons.

Please give me factual information to the contrary.

Edit: I had to edit my first sentence. See GRIZZLYMAN's post.

GRIZZLYMAN

I think Datamax, silentassassin, and myself already answered this one somewhere in the first 60 pages of this post. We hunt in Arkansas, where crossbows have been allowed for about 30 years and so far in that 30 years I haven't heard any hunters or biologists complain about it having a negative impact on the deer herd. The thing that has had more of a negative impact is hunters taking basket rack 6 and 8 point deer because of the 3 point antler restrictions in Arkansas.

BigJ71

Arthur P

The above statement may very well be true I don't doubt it one bit. However it is not a negative against crossbows nor is it a valid reason not to allow them....is it?

On another side note: If crossbow became legal here in Illinois I too would sill use my compound bow.

BigJ71

I knew you guys answered it. I was talking to the anti-crossbow group

GRIZZLYMAN

Sorry!

MA Jay

You definitely got this backwards, the FACT is that crossbows are not allowed in archery season in almost every state, but your Opinion is they all have it wrong and it should be changed. Those are the simple facts.

Hey Data, a "P&Y" would not be an accurate way to gauge a deer with a crossbow in your hands .. as they aren't eligible for their record books. Archers uses the P&Y standard to measure deer, Crossbow guys use B&C or some other local way of measuring.[/quote]

and finally No Silent, that is not my basic argument, not by a long shot. You may be the hardest to debate with of the 3 Crossbow supporters here. You stated that I flip flopped on disabled being allowed to use crossbows, that is wrong. I think they should be allowed, but only due to their disability and I don't consider bow hunting. I do appreciate and admire their effort to hunt in the context of their disability. My argument has never been if you aren't capable of shooting a bow that you should not hunt. In fact I think we should do everything in our power to promote and allow people to hunt. What you aren't getting is that if you hunt with shotguns, you need to wait. If you love ML's .. you guessed it, you have to wait. If you want to use a crossbow, you need to wait till the appropriate season WHENEVER that state may set it. If it happens to overlap archery, so be it. If it happens to be in firearms season as it is here in NH, then live with it. What I think is absolutely ridiculous is to change the legal definition of archery in 47 states for the sake of a few crossbow guys and the crossbow manufacturers. Hell, crossbow guys HAVE THE RIGHT TO HUNT in most states .. they just hate that those states have chosen to lump them with the firearms guys. Well instead of whining I think they should shut up and hunt and be proud they have the privilege.. and if they end up requiring more time afield, or be an option for game management, the states will allow it because Game Commissions don't care what specific weapon gets time in the field, they manage the hunters and the herd. Right now crossbows are insignificant and have a small following .. and they don't fit in the predetermined weapon categories... so make them their own season if the state warrants it, or allow them to hunt in firearm season is when all weapons can be used.

BigJ, that was my point last week. Illinois should allow healthy people who want to use crossbows a time to use them. At the very least during firearms season, but I think they should consider a crossbow season. They in no way qualify by Illinois’s standards of what legal archery equipment is, so instead of changing archery, they should create a crossbow season. IMHO of course...

MNRut

I think it is funny that you guys continue to argue that you have factual information showing no negative effect on archery seasons.

Data, you of all people should know (I mean seeing is how you think you know everything) it takes several well planned observational experiments to gather any sort of statistically significant data that can be called factual. The problem here is that there is not a single person on the face of the planet that is collecting any factual data related to the crossbow's negative effects on archery season. Do you want to know why? Most of the variables that would signify a negative impact are, for the most part, immeasurable.[X(] I mean come on, you don't expect us to think that harvest numbers are going to show all of the possible impacts crossbows are having do you?

The day you can show me a peer-reviewed scholarly study into the effects of crossbows on archery season is the day I will buy any of your crap you claim to be facts.

BigJ71

MA Jay,

I do not want to put words into your mouth but don't you mean: "What I think is absolutely ridiculous is to change the laws of when crossbow can be used in 47 states for the sake of a few crossbow guys and crossbow manufacturers."

I say this because the "legal definition" of a crossbow is a bow. They (the states) have their own reasons and I will be the first to say I don't know what they are. But I do know it's not based on "legal definitions"

I hear ya. But if they (crossbows) in no way qualify by Illinois standards of what is legal then why does Illinois allow the handicapped to hunt during the bow season. Why not just let them use a crossbow during the gun season? And why then do the crossbow kills go toward archery kills if they don't qualify? If they don't qualify then why dosen't the state count them as firearm kills or at the very least "other" kills?

I have no problem with a separate season for crossbow only but then again I have no problem with both crossbows and all other bows together either. I think the "bow hunters" would have a BIG problem if the crossbow only season took up some of their season, that's for sure. IMHO of course