BigJ71

Hey I can turn this around on you if you like professor. Please show me significant statistical factual data that shows crossbows have a negative effect on the states that already allow them?

I bet you can't.

In fact, the burden of proof should be on you as there are states that already have a combined season with no proven facts that crossbows have had an adverse effect.

MNRut

I've never said I could provide these facts - infact I believe I have already addressed this maybe a dozen pages back.

I'm just playing devils advocate to your B.S. fact finding.

datamax

Why do you think archery ISN'T the correct season ? Bows in bow season - its pretty simple really, and crossbows ARE bows in every traditional sense applied, like it or not. Hell the new compounds don'w even have working limbs ! Literally the new compounds are almost NOT bows by definition !

Why yes, they would. They don't have preferences on weapons - they make rules and regs according to what they thing is best for the deer herds and to maximize hutners recreation. They tweak seasons, bag limits, zone lines - every year they do this, and every year they publish WHY. Example - we lost 2 weeks of archery season last year. Why ? It was argued that people kill pregnant does and bucks with shed antlers. That was passed, and now we have some lobbying to show that only like 350 deer were taking in that last 2 wwek period - a very minute ammount compared to the overall harvest.

If crossbows were a negative to archery season, it'd be very apparent.

Lets look at that for a moment. I have no problems with crossbows in archery season because I live in a state that has them and KNOW they have no negative effect - you do have a problem with them in archery season for silly, make believe beliefs that have no factual merit - so that makes me the bad guy ? Uh .............. okay ...........

flat feet - the very most silliest of arguments and the truth behind your fears - and that is, you think your choice of equipment/weapon makes you a hunter on a higher ethical ground. You think you're a bowhunter when you have no cluse what a REAL bowhunter is, do you ? Would you like to know ? A real bowhunter is a self bowyer, making his own bows and taking to the woods with no goals really other than to hunt for the Hunt. Antler size is the least thing on his mind. Your compound is a horrid, grotesque blasphemy of what a bow is suppose to be. They are to archery what steroids are to MLB - and you know it and yet you think you're so much better for using a high tech bow ?


Please. You are not better than a crossbow hunter. You are not. Neither am I. A man in the woods crossbow hunting for the 1st time has a HUGE challenge on his hands. Don't belittle the hunters who choose differnt weapons. If you do, perhaps its YOU who needs that mirror ?

psebwhntr16

I dont like cross bows unless its for the handicapped. They made it legal here in KY and Im not exactly bouncing off the wall. X bows take away what bowhuntings all about; the challenge! Huh? Challenge...ohh yeah thats what huntings about! Woops almost forgot while watching a Scent-Lok commercial just a second ago...[:-] Last June I had surgery on my rotator cuff from an injury I sustained from baseball. My bow (a PSE Mach 12) was set at 65 pounds. I had to take it down all the way to 50 to be able to get it drawn comfortably. I had the 'oppurtunity' to hunt with a cross bow that season but passed.

Whats a negative of X bows? Its a slap in the face to real bowhunters.

datamax

Put down your compound and try a real bow and you'll know what challenge really is. Truth is ........ you shoot a compound because its EASIER and you're more ACCURATE with it - true or false ?








I predict in the coming years ALL states will aloow crossbows as compound become more and more high tech. P&Y will eventually cave in and allow a crossbow category.

When this happens - and deer hunting is as good as its ever been with more big bucks killed than every before .......... what will ya'll say ?


BTW -



Theres a new bow that doesn't meet what a bow is defined as, does it ?

psebwhntr16

To answer your first question, yes compounds do make it alot easier to shoot a quality group. But that comes with practice. Let me give you a situation. Me and you go to a shooting range. Theres a .270, my PSE, and your cross bow. We both shoot the .270 3 times at 100 yards and find we both have good 3 inch groups on the target. Now we shoot my bow. I anchor back and aim with my 30 yard pin and shoot 3 arrows within 4 inches of the spot. You shoot my bow under the same circumstances and shoot 3 arrows 3 feet from the target. Not because your a bad archer but because you dont anchor the same as me. Now you shoot your cross bow at 30 yards and put 3 arrows within 3 inches of the circle. I do the same and have similar results. Do you see what Im saying about the challenge thing?

BigJ71

Again some states have them during gun season and some during archery season. None of that means it is or is not archery, just the particular states decesion.

I'm not confused on the definition it came from the Websters Dictionary on my desk (actual book) I would like to hear someone try to discount Websters.

I must have missed the factual ones. I did hear alot of preceived negatives from people. Some I believe to be truthfull (in their minds) and others just poor excuses.

I won't even argue with this one...other than to say I'm not trying to change the definition of archery, it's clearly stated in the dictionary (the paper bound one)

DC,

You are correct it dosen't mean it will have the same results in all states. But with the absence of that study and the absence of any negative effects in the states that do allow crossbows in the archery season, you can't say for sure that it won't...can you?

I also believe that studies are being performed every day in this very subject and I believe you will see more and more states allowing them.

MA Jay

I am not saying, and niether are most here that Crossbow hunters are less thasn Bowhunters. Just not the same, only different.

Well I guess we'll have to sit back and see. History sems to suggest that most states have recently reviewed this option and most aren't changing. As far as P&Y allowing Crossbows, well I'm not so sure that is going to happen.

Well it certainly is getting to that point, but what you kill a deer with doesn't really matter. I happen to think for some gun hunters who will no longer be allowed to use ANY firearm, the crossbow will become their only option, and may raise it's popularity as a hunting weapon. Especially near popluated areas .. but I still think they'll manage it as a firearms type season, seperate than archery. Who knows, I may be wrong. We'll see though. One thing I don't think you have factored is the decision has already been made in many states, like mine. They just got lumped into firearms season. A bum wrap to be sure, and I do think they should have recieved their own season, but they'll be there for a while I'm sure of that.

MA Jay

Well if that were ACTUALLY true, that Webster provides the "legal definition" of archery, then you must be able to use them in Illinois? BigJ... try it, and bring your dictionary with you and explain how the "legal definiton" or archery is rigth there ..

Main Entry: cross·bow
Pronunciation: -"bO
Function: noun
: a weapon for discharging quarrels and stones that consists chiefly of a short bow mounted crosswise near the end of a stock


That is the legal defintion of a crossbow according to you.

Main Entry: ar·chery
Pronunciation: 'är-ch&-rE
Function: noun
1 : the art, practice, or skill of shooting with bow and arrow
2 : an archer's weapons
3 : a body of archers

Here is your legal defintion of archery ... I'm sure your CO will be cool with it. They really sound similar don't they...

datamax

So its practice now that can be used to define what is and isn't archery ?


Sure I do, but you neglected one thing. I shoot a recurve. I shoot my recurve 10 shots in the kill zone at 30 yards. You miss the target 8 times and the other two shots you're likely to hit non-vitals on the McKenzie with my recurve. In fact, you can take my recurve home, come back in 2 weeks and likley not be able to shoot good groups at 30 yards.

Also - give me 6 shots with your compound and I'll be ready to take it to the deer woods hunting. They are THAT easy to shoot.

So yeah, I see what you mean by challenge. A crossbow and a compound are really no challenge at all. A recurve ..... now THERE is the challenge, isn't it ?


Its implied and it has been said. Archery season is YOURS and you don't want to share it with other bows ......... different bows. True ?






Main Entry: quar·rel
Pronunciation: 'kwor(-&)l, 'kwär(-&)l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, square-headed arrow, building stone, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin quadrellum, diminutive of Latin quadrum square -- more at QUADRATE
: a square-headed bolt or arrow especially for a crossbow


Main Entry: bow
Pronunciation: 'bO
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English bowe, from Old English boga; akin to Old English bugan
1 a : something bent into a simple curve b : RAINBOW
2 : a weapon that is made of a strip of flexible material (as wood) with a cord connecting the two ends and holding the strip bent and that is used to propel an arrow