RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

So, which of these is comparable to your two pics, datamax? Which is archery?





Lest you think both are shootin' rifles, like my wife did, note the quiver on the guy's hip in the top pic.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Or this........

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Arthur P - Its obvious he's shooting a bow - what fool would place arrows down inside the barrel of a gun ?

Want to know something really crazy that'll freak these guys here out ? Cross the border between Arkansas and Kansas with that crossbow and it magically transforms from a BOW into a GUN. I know, I know, I don't quite understand the magic behind it myself, but these guys here SWEAR its not a bos, that its a gun and I know for a FACT Arkasnas doesn't allow guns in archery season.

Its a weird world we live in, isn't it ?

Matt / PA I did notice you never called that kid that killed a deer with his crossbow a lazy slob bowhunter wannabe or anything like that. I noticed you didn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

I wonder why ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

All bow down and worship Datamax and his break dance kid, it's what your looking for. Assassin did you read the entire post? Try reading the whole thing before posting, ADD or what? Datamax you bash any opinion that is diffirent from yours get a clue you weren;t hunting 40 year ago so settle down you only picked up a long bow after watching lord of the rings 100 times. Time to approach women without being "creepy". Here is a negative affect, You don't hunt My land with a crossbow unless you have a physical disability. If you do have a physical disibility then I might even buy you a tag, fly you in, and give you a cross bow so you can join us.

I'm killing pigs this weekend see you all monday.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

The guy who's got one of these! The AIRROW Rimfire arrow shootin' drop-in barrel for the Ruger 10/22 or 77/22



www.swivelmachine.com/html/rimfire.htm

So, how far down the slippery slope are you willing to let things go? This is the next step beyond crossbows. Here's a quote from their website:

See? Just like the crossbow crowd, they call their product 'archery' too.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I agree theyre different & so is a crossbow. A crossbow is better than a compound by more of a margin than a rifle is to a muzzleloader IMO. I am not against them per se, just being realistic. Theres no way that a weapon you can load & wait indefinately to fire does not have advantages to a hand drawn bow. I guess once a long time ago people may have argued over compounds & stick bows but thats a different arguement & seems to have been decided. This arguement has also been decided as well or they would be legal everywhere. The very fact that an acception has to be made shows that to most people a crossbow isnt a bow, its a crossbow. ;)

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

WHOA !!!!!!!!! Aint that an ultra cool, bitchin looking weapon !

Awe, dammit man, it doesn't have LIMBS and it doesn't use a string to deliver the energy to the arrows.

Ahh well, I though you have a loophole for a minute. We can all go back to our vertical limb technolgoy, cams, wheels, cam and a halfs, mechcanical, triggered releses, peeps, SIMS from hell, split carbon limbs, machined aluminum riers, fiber pins, dop away rests and sleep easy tonight that we're true He Men bowhunters using hard to master equipment that challenged the archers in us.

yeah right

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Thanks for the links Matt and Arthur! High fives are in order to the both of you! Slam dunk!

I knew I had seen and heard about the arrow shooting GUN before but could not find the current information on it. Hmmm, very similiar in that both a crossbow and the gun have a stock, are shouldered, use a fixed trigger, and loose an arrow. Then I suppose Datamax would propose both are archery equipment? I THINK NOT!!!!!! :D:D:D:D;)

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Nope, just a product of the imaginary "Have to have success immediately or we'll lose interest and give up generation"

IMO he should have learned like most of us did........shooting a fiberglass bow at an early age, maybe join the cub scouts, practice practice practice with your real bow and arrows dreaming of the day when you are really old enough and responsible enough to be hunting with adults. Of course that involves work and time and guidance, all of which seem to be at a premium these days with many parents and kids.

Lets make everything as easy as we can for kids........god knows they'll just go find something else to do without immediate success. :eek:

Maybe you can speak with the now 12yr old grandson of a co-worker who I have been tutoring in archery since he was 10.....who is so excited to take his hunter safety exam and shoot his bow any chance he gets. The same kid who I have provided with bows , arrows, and my time and knowledge.
Give the kids the right guidance and teaching, helping them learn as they grow and wait their chance to hunt along side us when they are a little more mature mentally to understand what taking a life really is.
If you feel the savior to hunting is throwing a 5 or 7 yr old kid in a box blind with a crossbow or a rifle just so he can kill something to keep his interest away from his Playstation or Spongebob movies, your views on the future of hunting and the role our youth will play is criminally sad.

I feel much better about handing the reigns to my 12yr old friend than the kid who's picture you posted........I may be wrong, but I like my chances of this thing actually STICKING and becoming a lifelong pursuit with it done the right way rather than handing a kid the power to kill combined with instant success at an age where their heros and role models are still little purple and yellow characters.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I never used to think it would be a problem until just recently while thinking about another current thread (passin the buck).:eek:

I remember when archery was considered a challenge in itself and any buck harvested with a bow was considered a trophy to everyone. I'm not talking 40 years ago either. The "any deer with a bow is a trophy" mentality was quite popular even 20 years ago , even with compound shooters.

Nowadays it seems that compound technology is so advanced that a great deal (if not the majority) of bowhunters who claim they "bowhunt for the challenge" have turned to strictly harvesting trophy bucks to up the challenge and encouraging everyone else to do the same.:(

What would crossbows do for that mentality? Anything smaller than 180" of antler should be hid in the trunk of your car for fear of shame (unless it's your first buck of course) and ridicule from the mighty trophy hunters?

I say we (bowhunters) should all "up the challenge" and go back to recurves and longbows.:eek: It was alot more fun back then I'll tell you that! You could shoot a spike and you'd have high fives from the boys at the check station or local watering hole.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Matt / PA - I just reread that twice and do you know what you're arguing for, don't you ? Compound and crossbows do not fit your post - recurves and longbows do.

I can take your compound and shoot 3" groups with it at 30 yards. Give me 5 mintues to get the feel. Can you take my recurve and do the same ? That should tell you volumes on easier/better.

BOWFANATIC - you ever hunted with a crossbow ? A recurve or longbow ? A compound ? When its all said and done, regardless of which of those you use, you STILL have to get within 20 yards. I'd hazard to say longer shots are almost always the product of compound shooter - see some ofthe western threads on other sites where 50-60 yard shots are common.

The mentality HAS changed - with the compound bow in hand. Don't forget about Chuck Adams shooting a beeded Coues deer at 63 yards. A 100 pound buck, bedded down - AT 63 YARDS.


Go to Bowsite and read Ricardo's polar bear hunt. In retrospect he says now all his big game hunting is done with a compound - NOT a longbow. Why ? Its easy to figure out - its EASIER and gives him a GREATER chance of killing animals.

Yessir - the mentality you fear is already here, isn't it ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

The important word in that (and all of your posts) is "I" can......."I" can........didn't realize you were speaking for every man woman and child out there who can just pick up any bow and shoot 3" groups at 30 yards. Because it's easy for YOU, yep it's easy for everyone. What you picked up a compound bow the first day and shot a bullseye on everyshot since? I could do that with a crossbow.

It took almost 2 years of practice with that kid I'm teaching to have him really start to get a good repeatable anchor, follow through, grip, ect ect.........and he's proud of his accomplishment in shooting his 3 to 5" groups at 20 yards now. You should see him jump up and down when he hits 2 arrows together, and the fun he gets trying to shoot accurately at 30 yards.

What would your crossbow have taught him? "Here ya go kid, heck you don't even need a new bow of your own, you can just borrow mine, it's already sighted in, just point and squeeze the trigger."........"What you're a little shaky? Here rest it on the table and you'll be just as accurate as you were shooting your .22 from the bench rest." "See that? Bullseye first shot.......boy you're a natural!"[:'(]

Like I said, instant satisfaction, gratification.......and ultimately boredom from too much success right from the start.
A compound has the ability to make me and you and every archer more accurate? Yeah tell that to Byron Furgeson, or Howard Hill.......We get as good as our practice will allow, some are naturals and pic it up quicker than others, but your crossbow removes that part entirely from the equation.
Step right up, point and shoot.........pass it around so everyone has a chance to hit the bullseye.:eek:

You don't speak for everybody, obviously you are a good shot, I'm a good shot, and many guys here are.........there's a reason they come here, either they are generally the top rung and this is their passion.........or they are beginners seeking advice because guess what? Not everyone is you , or me, or Chuck Adams killing Cous Deer at 70 yards.

You have this unbeleivable view that your opinions are somehow devinely right and infallable, able to be defended at every corner?........You're kidding right? :D
You pick and choose what to argue, and defend, and quite frankly it all sounds pretty silly anyway.

How about you break this article down for me.......It highlights everything you've been saying as to how similar a compound a crossbow are.:eek:
http://www.newyorkbowhunters.com/New_Folder/xbow.htm
Boy we are all ashamed that we didn't believe you!.......you were right. LOL.

I'm curious as to your position, and also why you think WE as the majority need to defend our position? YOU need to convince US and you are failing miserably......the only place you are not failing in your arguments is in your own mind.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I think that it is a lazy way out of bow hunting. You do not have to practice like you do with a comound or recuve bow(10-15 arrows per day) and you do not have to practice form an consistancy at all unlike a real bow where you have to work hard to get decent groupes constantly. That is just my .02 cents.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Matt / PA - you REALLY think compounds are hard ? Seriously ? If you do you're kidding yourself. They are - by DESIGN - easy to shoot. Why do you put pins, peeps, use release aids and drop away rests, keep the high letoff etc etc on them ? It makes them EASY.

People love easy.

I GAURANTEE if I developed a gadget to attach to your bow that would allow you to reduce your groups by 50% you'd buy it. Why ? Human nature to have BETTER and EASIER without any effort.

The kid it amazingly took 2 years to shoot a compound would have hunted 2 years ago with a crossbow until he got good enough with a compound. In other words, in the short lives we have he lost 2 years he could have been bowhunting.

True - some ARE natural shots - but not with compounds. Compounds are mechanical, they are designed to make everyone good shooters. I mean, c'mon, its robotic - you draw, put the pin in the peep on the target and squeeze the trigger. Thats it - the bow does everything else. Remember, I've crossbow shot, compound shot for years and for the past 3 years I've recurve/longbow shot. I got a very good handle on how difficult the 3 are - and how easy they are and how they all differ.

Now to your anti-crossbow website. Of course they didn't recognize the huge differences between compounds/recurve - they intentionally left all that out.

I agree 100% with that. What this is saying that compounders do NOT want to take the time and effort to learn to master a recurve/longbow, so they shoot compound because they are inherently EASIER. Compounders do not want to put forth the time and effort and they want to shoot BETTER and EASIER

You know that is true. Thats why you choose a compound. Its why I chose a compound in Kansas last fall. It will be why I choose one again too if I ever do.

So please, PLEASE tell me how my choosing and a weapon that just makes it a bit easier and better is wrong ? You cannot choose easier and better yourself and then condemn me for taking it one step further can you ? Its hypocritical to do that. I know that, you know that. So I asked at the beginning of the thread for just one negative crossbows have given archery.

Just one. And not one in 18 pages ? If crossbows were bad, you'd see "deer season reduced" or " way too many hunters" or " reduced tags " ...... something.

And yet - not one has surfaced.

The below is 100% true and can be applied to compounds, can't it ?

The compound is the answer for today's opportunistic hunter who lacks the dedication and commitment required to be a bowhunter. The compound is simply a superior weapon that is much easier to use than archery equipment and therefore should not be allowed in any archery season or archery only areas.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Brad, its amazing that you of all people are trying to defend allowing crossbows in regular archery seasons by ridiculing and attacking compounds. You try to preach its easy for all to shoot compound bows, yet you are trying to say by not allowing crossbows into regular archery seasons, that its denying a few women and kids the chance to hunt. If the compound is so easy(in your own words), then those women and kids should have no problem. Why then do you want to make it easier for them by using crossbows? A responsible and ethical hunter knows his limits. A hunter in the making will realize their goals and appreciate reaching their goal with practice and perseverance. Picking up something that takes little to no practice will not teach anyone the appreciation and dedication that archery/bowhunting was and still is.

Adapting and maturing is part of the process of hunting, no matter what weapon is used. Its too bad that you have to resort to attacking something in order to defend something.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Crossbow - no , recurve - yes , longbow - no , compound - yes.

That may be your personal goal and mine as well but it's definately not everyones. When I visit the outdoor ranges around here during the summer the 40yd and 50yd lanes are open 99% of the time unless a x-bow shooter is there.:eek:


The key word there is "western" threads! Totally different ballgame!

I'm not argueing that the "mentality has changed" because it has in my opinion but your using poor examples. Fred Bear took longer shots than that with traditional equipment. So I think it's safe to say the compound bow in itself isn't responsible for "long range shots" in bowhunting terms.

You also make it sound like anyone and everyone that goes from traditional gear to a compound can pick one up and be shooting like a pro in ten minutes.
You dont visit the ranges much do you?
Even with kisser buttons , peep sights , $200 sights , $100 releases , it still takes practice and dedication. You cant argue that period!!
Does it take more practice and dedication with traditional gear? Yes. Nobody can argue that!!
It seems to me that this is just another of your threads that beats a mile around the bush just to point out that traditional gear (your chosen gear) takes alot more practice and dedication than compounds.

The benefits of allowing x-bows during archery season? If those bowhunters (<used lightly) that show up at the range a week before season turn to x-bows then maybe there will be alot less wounded deer.

The negatives of allowing x-bows during archery season? Like I mentioned before??? Archery hunting itself is already to the point of not being considered a challenge anymore by many. Allowing x-bows into archery season will just be the final nail in the coffin.
Thats my opinion!! There really is no need to argue that point with me as I can show you countless threads over the last five years here that have formed my opinion.

Now , whats with the sig pics? Are you going through a mid life crisis?;)

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Draw weight is what limits women and children Cougar, thats obvious. But taking your rational - why don't compound shooters use recurves/longbows ? Equipment choice ? Ahhhhhhhhh, but you don't want others to choose equipment other than what YOU justify. Irony at its best.

Remember - I am NOT against compounds. They have tuned archery into what it is today. I simply see them for what they are - an easy to use wannabe bow that technically IS a bow in the way it performs by definition - and used by people who don't want to take the time to learn to shoot a longbow/recurve. COmpounders want easier, faster, more accurate, better - dude I know, I've been there ! If I were to go back to compounds I'd want the latest and greatest that would allow me to get as good as I could, as fast as I could get there with as little practice as possible,

All compounders want that - its a tech thing.

Crossbows are simply another way to quick and easy. No different than compound except they're a bit more easy in many ways though they lack the accuracy downrage, they're heavy, loud etc.

Theres truth in what I say - like it or not. Look where compounds have come in 10 years and imagine where they'll be in 10 years. People still wanting faster, quieter, shorter, lighters, better, more accurate, easier. Thats the way of it


Oh Dude, do you know how many compounders fall into that category ? Even some recurve/longbow shooters aren't fit to be hunting is accuracy is a requirement !

So you admit compounds have already come too far ? Are you lobbying to ban them ? Are you speaking out saying that compounds have come too far ? Have you bought any techy stuff for your bows lately ?

Like the analogy earlier - the lion is out, you know this, and the tiger is saying " why not let me out ? the lion is doing a lot of damage already. And you're saying well, the lion is a good thing but even though you're very close to a lion, you have those cosmetic stripes and well, the stripes make you different, so no, can't let you out even though you're bascially the same kind of large, carnivorous feline."

How crazy is that ? Cage them both, or let them both go. Anything less is hypocritcal

Want me to change it to this ??



Keith Roets
11 years old
This was his first deer and was taken with a crossbow.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I don't post up a whole lot, but Datamax I will tell you the one true NEGATIVE to crossbows.......
.........the use of crossbows in archery seasons has for years DIVIDED us as a hunting community. Arguments and debates like the ones on this thread DIVIDE us as a hunting community. Nowhere else will you find the use of any one weapon cause such a SPLIT among hunters. These weapons are just providing another "DIVIDE" for those would would wish to "divide and conquer" us. Is it the crossbow or people who use them's fault? Absolutely not, but it can't be denied that their use in archery seasons causes huge amounts of argument and infighting amongst ourselves.....that fact cannot be denied. And that my friend is truly the biggest NEGATIVE to the existance and use of crossbows in archery season.

just my opinion
Chris

PS - just to be clear I am not a X-bow hater, in fact i support their use here in British Columbia because they are a legal means of harvest.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

But yet you go on record later sayin.....:eek:

Unfortunately I know there's way too many!! If half of them switched to a x-bow and stopped wounding deer because of it , I guess that would be a good thing.

Compounds are already allowed in every states general archery season. Why would I "lobby to ban them" unless I was a member of PETA?
Crossbows however are NOT allowed in every states general archery season.
Are you lobbying to allow them during archery season? And I'm not talking about a thread at a hunting forum. Are you "lobbying" to allow them?
If so , why?
I have no problems with a seperate crossbow season. Afterall , the overall majority of states have a high enough deer population to withstand another season.:eek:

So your saying you feel that compounds have already tainted the general archery season so why not ruin the rest of it by allowing crossbows as well?
How pessimistic is that?

I quoted that one for you (and in bold I might add) because you know full well it's your only motivation for even starting a thread like this!!!! Gives you another chance to point out the differences between compound shooters and your sacred recurve.

Does it really need to continue?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Well yes, it has, but its not the crossbows thats done it, its the compounders that have. Score again for the argument that compounds are the problem every bit as much so as crossbows.


I don't care what kind of bow a person uses - really I don't - because I'm froma state that allows ALL archery equipment in archery season.

Here's what compounds have done. They have resulted in bows that shoot faster, quieter, better and more accurately with less and less practice required every year they exist. They are also responsible for an absolute BOOM in archery participation. When they first came out, everyone was complaining about the fears of what they would od to archery season, not at all unlike the current fears of crossbows. And what happened ? Archery participation boomed because of them.

The only ill's that one can point out on compounds of course is that they're so much easier to use and an element has been lost on what the archery of old (recurve/longbows) was like. Is that good ? Is that bad ? I submit that its really NEITHER as long as there's no negative impact on the herds. On a personal level, I do feel that compounds have come too far, as well as modern muzzleloader that are anything BUT a muzzleloader except that they are loose powder and single shot. You know what I mean ?

But thats a personal belief, and not at all reason to want to restrict archery season to recurve/longbows only, is it ?

And thus we come full circle to crossbows, and the unfounded fears people have against them. We KNOW those fears are false because of several states that allow crossbows and not one single fear has come true in them. The seasons are just as long, the bag limits just as liberal - not one single bad thing comes from crossbows, do they ?

Now, if its a fear about equipment becoming too easy ? HA ! Look at compounds. If its about technology ? Look at compounds. If its about bows shooting better, farther, easier ......... look no further than the compound. What those arguments argue is ALREADY HERE in the form of the compound bow.

Arthur P realizes this, LBR does - most people do. But most people also shoot the compound and don't want to put 2 + 2 together.

BOWFANATIC theres truth to that, but its an argument that is not a winning one. It would be disasterous to try and set up archery based on how well a person shoots. The best thing to do ? Allow bows - like the compound and like the crossbows - and let people decide whats best for them.

For a moment lets assume a big reversal and archery season is now longbow/recurves only. What would I have done last year in Kansas ? I'd have continued hunting with my longbow, as poorly as I was shooting, and likely shot at and missed/wounded a deer. But because I could choose a compound, I made the decision and it was a good one.

A person in Arkansas that for whatever reason can choose a crossbow to archery hunt with. Thats never resulted in any negative impacts to our herd either. Can that be anything BUT a good thing ?

No need to, they're legal here.

What I am "lobbying" against is the unfounded notions that crossbows are bad. If they're bad, TELL ME how. Give me a reason why they're any worse than the compound bow. Show me a stat, throw me a bone - but don't give me an argument that can be applied to compounds and say thats your reason. Back to the lion anaology - you want the lion free, and you want to cage the tiger based only on a cosmetic stripes - knowing that the tiger can't do anything more (because some states allow the tiger to be free too)

I personally don't have a problem with the easy to use compound. Why then would I have a problem with crossbows ? We've got easier, whats wrong with a bit MORE easy ? The compound is vastly different than a recurve, whats wrong with a bit more different than a compound ? The difference might be higher kills, more bowhunters ? If so, those are not BAD things. Bad things would be herd impacting, less season, less bag limits. Well, look at the states that allow crossbows - has it happened ? If the answer is NO then that fear is unfounded and you're back to a personal thing on easy vs easy.

What you nore Matt / PA nor anyone can say is that the kid in the above photo wasn't a bowhunter. Ya'lls argument is that crossbows aren't bows, they're not archery ....... why don't you step forward and say the kid shot his first buck by cheating, by shooting a deer in archery season with a gun ? That he choose a route that Matt /PA's web site there calls " who are not willing to put forth the time and effort to learn to shoot archery equipment proficiently. " that maybe he was " opportunistic hunter who lacks the dedication and commitment required to be a bowhunter "

Go ahead. I'm waiting. Ya'll cannot change your core argument because of a kids success can you ? You drew the lines - the crossbow cannot magically change from a bow to a non-bow when it crosses state line, and the motive for using one cannot change either. The boy in the photo chose a crossbow because he likely couldn't shoot the poundage needed to shoot a compound/longbow/recurve. The crossbow allowed him to archery hunt anyway because for him it was easier, and he was more accurate with it.

For you, a compound is easier and more accurate than a recurve/longbow, isn't it ?


hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Is that a bad thing to say ? I'm not sugar coating anything. Guns are the easier thing to kill deer with. If you want to have the BEST chance at killing deer, get a gun. Muzzleloaders are pretty easy to but single shot. A compound bow is right there with a crossbow as far as how easy they are. Recurves/longbows are the hardest - but because of that they also account for more deer shot at, missed and wounded.

Those are things that are true, like it or not. I choose a recurve (today) and with I'm I'm more likely to shoot at, wound or miss a deer than if I were shooting a compound. ANd with a compound I'd have a greater chance of missing/wounding than if i'd have chosen a rifle.

So I'm not really bashing compounds at all, I'm just pointing out the differences that exist. Ethics is a personal thing - it cannot be legislated and it cannot be tied to a weapon and it cannot be controlled.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

It is interesting that the choice of devices to propel a given projectile can be the source of so many opinions. At the same time, I think it is fair to say that certain types of sporting endeavors attract certain personality types.

For example, I have been musky fishing for years and I can tell you that it is not for everyone. Most people lack the patience and discipline (some call it stupidity) to work so hard to catch a particular species of fish.

Therefore, I think that you could safely say that the crossbow attracts people that want far, far, less challenge in their hunting experience. Yea, I know, data, you could say the same about the crossbow vs compound.

At any rate, there is certainly truth on both sides of this one as there always has been...

You CANNOT in my opinion, make the argument that we must support crossbows because they make it easier to attract new hunters; that the loss of a hunters should be offset by simply making available a variety of devices that will ensure higher success rates and therefore higher numbers being attracted to the sport. If you're going to make that argument then just pass out the grenades.

Hunting is on the decline for a variety of reasons and most have nothing whatsoever to do with the types of hunting implements available to the sport.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Why yes, you CAN say the same thing, can't you ?


On bringing in new hunters ............ rifle hunters thaqt do the two season thing counts as bowhunters. Bowhunting in general gets attacked more so than rifle hutning partially due to lower numbers of bowhunters. Rifle hunters shooting compounds in archery season is a GOOD thing gor archery - and rifle hunters shooting crossbows in archery season is a GOOD thing too.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Whitetail Stalker you stated You really have to shoot your compound that much to keep your form and groups consistant?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Of course he doesn't, he's trying to be outrageous and use it to back an unfounded point.

I went 3 years without shooting a compound and got good enough in about 15 minutes to hunt with.

Compounds are EASY

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Please tell me just one negative in allowing a seperate season for crossbows!

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

exactly!

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Quote: datamax

Then your "lobbying" for a seperate season for crossbows?

I have no problem with that whatsoever!

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

They'll be taking away quite a few weeks of archery season. Ya'll probably think that is a negative, don't you ?

That, and you'd be creating two seperate archery seasons .......... why ? Would you force handicap hunters to hunt in archery season #1 or archery season #2 ?

How can I be when its legal in my state ? It doesn't bother me in the least that they are in archery season, they have absolutely NO impact on my hutning. None, nada, zip and in fact, compounds have more of an impact.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

crossbows should not be allowed to be used for regular archery season, nor should thy have a season of thier own. They should be used by the disabled and during rifle season perhaps. If you don't have enough weapons choices already then perhaps you should take up lawn bowling or throwing those big darts into a hoop

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

AMEN !

Lets ban the compounds too. If you don't have enough choices with recurves and longbows, to hell with ya ! Go bowling or play darts, something that doesn't take years of time and practice and effort to master.

Hell yeah, I'm with ya man, all the way baby

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I wasn't talking about banning crossbows, I was talking about permitting them in areas where there are currently restricted (which I'm against). To be banned, you have to have been previously allowed. I know you understand that concept Data :D

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

That lone statement has shown how credible your arguments are. If you spent so little time shooting your bow to get ready for deer season, you were doing a disservice to all bowhunters everywhere.

I find it funny you are for allowing crossbows into regular bowhunting season, but against crossbows being allowed in with firearms.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

After reading all of the posts (took long enough)

I have a few questions and a couple of statement of my own.

1st in regards to "is a crossbow a bow or a gun?" While it does share components of both, I would have to say it would be more a bow than a gun simply due to how the projectile is launched. After all it is called a crossBOW and not a crossGUN right. I know some of you all hate them but they are bows sorry. They have been around before anyone even knew what a gun was. So how can you classify it as a gun?

2nd, if it's more gun than bow as some of you think, why is it that the states that do allow them (either by the mainstream or for handicapped) allow them during the archery season? if it's a gun then why not let the handicapped just use a rifle during the archery season to kill there deer?

I have no problem cross bows. If anything I encourage them because if it brings new people into hunting then we ALL benefit. How can bringing people into hunting that otherwise would not, be bad? And this "it's ok as long as you don't hunt when I do" is the right attitude to have? Thats just elitist crap!

I am a HUNTER and I will use any form or weapon that is legal for me to use. This "bow elitism" has to stop or it will be the downfall of the sport. There is a lot of people out there who want to put an end to bow hunting all together and this "in fighting" makes it easier for them to do it.

Why in the hell would you NOT want a crossbow hunter in the woods the same time as you? is he going to kill more deer than if he had a compound or recurve....no.

How exactly does this effect you? And don't give me this "yahoo in the woods who just bought his crossbow yesterday" crap either because I have seen with my own eyes and heard PLENTY of stories of bow hunters, gun hunters, muzzleloader hunters and the like that fall into the same category, your going to find those people no matter what the type of weapon. Maybe some of you BOW ELITIST should try different forms of hunting before passing judgement on crossbows.

Some of you need to relax!! If you want to just shoot a bow then do it and don't worry if the guy across the county is using a crossbow. When I gun hunt here in Illinois I could give a rats ass if the guy in the next county is using a pistol or a muzzleloader all of which are legal to use during the slug gun season. I'm just glad they are in the wood hunting and so should you!

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Why ? I can take YOUR compound and shoot it very well in 10 minutes. Why is that a disservice ? They're DESIGNED to shoot with easy Cougar, thats what compounds ARE. If I can pick up your compound and have 3-4" groups within 10 minutes ....... thats not good shooting ? That klind of shooting would be, what, 280's on a 3D course or something like that ? And don't forget, I took one shot, a heart shot a very nice non-typical 3 days after practicing with the Q2 after a 3 year hiatus. Can't argue with the results, can we ?


They ARE legal in firearms season. See, in AR, you can shoot archery in rifle season following rifle rules (orange , bag limits etc ) I know some states you cannot. However, I'm quite sure crossbows are legal in most firearms season anyway in most states, aren't they ? I'm not arguing that at all.

Exactly.

Exactlier

They will say that it DOESN'T, however kids and women in AR who use crossbows wouldn't be bowhunting if it wasn't for them. Plus, rifle hunters joining the ranks of bowhunters by shooting a crossbow STILL counts as a bowhutner. Take a million rifle hunters and let them buy crossbows and they add to the ranks of bowhunters even if they still rifle hunt primarily.

On elitism ......... it can be a good thing in a way. Let me explain. Modern Muzzleloaders have gone too far IMO. I use one - however I think they are 1 shot rifles more than they are muzzleloaders. People don't even have to know to measure power now with pyrodex pellets, quick loading and that funky new Knight ........ its gone too far. They're still technically muzzleloaders - but every year less and less. We've "lost" what muzzleloading is/was. Its become easier - but that doesn't mean better. The tradition of muzzleloading, the old flintlocks and caplocks of old ........ and the skills needed to shoot open sights with a 12 pound barrel .......... its being lost. Elitism is traditionalism. Elitism is not just "our way is better" its more like "the traditional way should stay intact"

Can you see what I'm saying ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

What I don't get is that Datamax and others readily admit that Muzzleloaders and Rifles are different but share many similar qualities, and as the technology gets more similar their effectiveness is getting close to equal.

Now that same thing is applicable to Crossbows and Archery equipment. There are definitely some similarities to them, while there are also some major differences. Archery and archery equipment are very well defined, and they do not include crossbows. That doesn't mean a state hasn't allowed crossbow hunters to hunt during archery season.. that doesn't make them archery equipment, just like hunting with a bow during a rifle season doesn't make a bow a rifle.

Now what I don't get, is that almost every state has a Muzzleloader Season and a Rifle/Shotgun Season along with an Archery Season. If Muzzleloaders and Rifles/Shotguns are seperated, why "blend" Archery and crossbow hunting? A crossbow is as different from a bow as a muzzloader is from a rifle and shotgun. In fact here in the East, Muzzleloaders have some significant advantages over shotguns in terms of range where rifles aren't allowed, just as some highly profecient compound bow archers have range advantages over casual crossbow hunters.

Just because a state allows a crossbow user to hunt during archery season, doesn't make it "archery". In the neighboring state of Massachusetts, 2 guys can get married .. but in 49 other states they aren't married .. just gay.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Well, the difference is, your muzzleloaders are comparable to rifle as compounds/crossbows are to recurves/longbows. Technically the crossbow/compound is still a bow, and a muzzleloader is still a rifle, however technology has come so far that the lines are blurred, aren't they ?

Why yes, there IS a clear definition to what IS a bow and what isn't. Every state to my knowledge recognizes a crossbow as legal archery weapons. Some restrict its use only due to physical limitations (handicap permits) but still they recognize it as legal archery equipment. Some state say anyone can use them. Wait, I thought you and I agreed they are well defined ?

Well, why were compound "allowed in" back when ? Why wasn't your argument valid then ? All I'm saying is, apply your anti-crossbow argument to compounds and in the end, you'll come to realize that IF compounds are archery equipment, surely too must crossbows be.

Hmmmmmm. Actually, if the married boys go to another state that state must recognize the marriage, even though its not legal in their state if I'm not mistaken. But what you are suggesting is that a crossbow is a bow in Arkansas, and when it goes across the state line to Kansas, it magically transforms into a gun ? Or it magically changes into something else ? No, c'mon, no one believes that. Its still a bow. It might be legal only for handicap people, but its recognized as a bow.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I can't believe this is still going[:'(]

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

By the same token you can’t paint all kinds or all scenarios with one broad stroke of the brush. If you think you can then you are criminally st…………….naive. Different kids mature at different ages and some have experienced a great deal more at an early age than others have that may have readied them for such an experience. Myself as well as most of my friends starting tagging along consistently with our fathers when we were no more than three years old. By the time I was 7 I killed my first limit of teal with a shotgun. I was a big kid and I was far far ahead of the other children in my close both physically and mentally. I spent most of my time with the adults and that’s where I wanted to spend my time. My dad and his friends hunted hard and looked up to them and wanted to be like them and I spent most of my time trying to be like them from the time I was very little. As soon as I was big enough my father quit shooting but we still hunted just as much as before. The difference was that now he spent all of his time working with me on safety and ethics and coaching my shooting. Different kids develop at different ages and first of all you aren’t qualified to decide an age at which all children are prepared to hunt and second of all it’s not your place to.

You are forgetting about one of the most important factors in that phenonmenon. That is the deer population explosion of the last 20 years. It's not a result of the advances in equipmenbt it's a result of the fact that there is a deer behind every other tree in all most every part of the country. Obviously, there are a few exceptions and I am sure that attitude is not as prevelant in those areas. For the rest of us, it's much easier to kill deer these days than it was 20 years ago simply because there are so many more of them.

I worked in a shop long enough to see some guys that could come in having never shot before and just had amazingly repeatable form. I set a guy up one night that was shooting for the first time ever (2 days before season). I am telling him it's tough shooting a bow and you won't be ready to hunt in 2 days yadda yadda yadda and this guy shoots about 20 minutes and gets 3 robinhoods at 20 yards and is consistently shooting quarter size groups. Now he was the best I eve saw out of the gate but I have seen SEVERAL people get setup and be shooting very impressively in a matter of minutes.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Sure you can. Allowing crossbow will pro0bably not offset the declining numbers but I can guarantee you that it won't if you don't try. With the numbers that we are lossing we should be making every REASONABLE effort to bring as many into the sport as possible. That being said you can always make an outrageous comparison like hand grenades to make the argument sound unreasonalbe but in actuality there much less difference and in many other places the cross is accepted as archery tackle. Which makes your grenade argument moot. The fact is that intolerance and greed are hurting our sport and driving people out and it's going to continue to do so. Why do you guys begrude a 10 year old kid the oppurtunity to get in the woods? For the life or me I will never understand that. It would hurt you in the least. It wouldn't even effect you yet you feel the right to define how eveyone else should be allowed to hunt.[:'(]

Also, I have no problem with a crossbow only season but I think that time should come directly from the time that is currently alloted to the archery season. Would you guys agree?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Datamax, tell me xbows don't lead to more evils against bow season!!!!!!!




Also,