RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

DC has an open invitation to come up and hunt with me anytime he wants to. We got a few good ones running around up here too!;) I am working on lease that's within a couple of miles of the White River but a lot farther north than the refuge.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

What substantiation do you have that crossbow archers are going to be unethical? Thirty years in Ohio has not confirmed your slander right. What is wrong is a person like you assuming and jumping to conclusions others based on what bow they use. The majority of the people argue of some sort of advantage over other bows, but this hasn't shown on the most recent hunting harvest rates, if truth be told they’re essentially a little lower in spite of "gun like" attributes that many maintain.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

....DC grins and contemplates his next great whitetail excursion........;)

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Why is it that the first post reads "tell me one thing bad about crossbow" which requires an opinioned answer. Then when you recieve an answer that is opiniated you want facts or stats. Just accept that is other peoples views on the subject, appreciate the different aspects of the answers and press on. If someone opinion is not the same as yours, there not wrong it is just there morals, thoughts, or just how they feel about the question that was asked. Alomst every respond here is an opinion. Damn people go do somthing like Scouting or Turkey hunt, take someone fishing have a Beer:).

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Here .......... a sampling of Arkansas bucks (you'll have to share the woods with crossbow hunters, but you won't see any, and with bucks like this, I think its worth the effort, don't you ? :D )

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Thanks Data, I've already inquired about certain parts of your state with another anonymous board member :D

I didn't say I was so biased towards xbows that I wouldn't share "your" woods with them

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

oh ....... and the BIG ONES

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

flat feet said
He doesn't know how to, its his way or no way!;)[:'(] He seems to have all the answers, ya don't even have to ask him!;):D:D:D:D

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I help a lot of kids in to bow hunting.Give bows away,help them learn to hoot,and take them hunting every year.From what I have under stood becouse I do not think xbows are not bows I do not want to push bow hunting.I think every one that has some thing to gain from the xbow thing.

I heard all this crap.I just want to help,I just like to talk crap,look up the definion.

But not one sole has said a real reasion why they are pushing it.If there is no real reasions, Than why?


I have hade people trist what I have typed, LIE about what I have typed,and just pick out the little peaces they want to push. [BUT AT LEAST THEY DID NOT SAY HOW BAD MY SPELLING IS} for this I say good to talk about the subject and not how some one spells.[ TY]

I do not thry to pick any one apart or call names. I just posted as I saw it. My uncle kills WAY more deer becouse of the xbow.I know this becouse he can not hunt,he was lucky to kill 1 deer a year with a bow.And now he kills many many deer with an xbow.HE SHOOTS TO FAR. HE WILL SHOOT WELL OVER %) YARDS WITH THE XBOW. He would never shoot 30 yards with the bow.becouse he can now put an X on it he thinks he can shoot 3 timeswith the xbow than as far as he could with the compound.I do not beleave he is alone on this.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Okay you paranoid man .......... whats in it for YOU to keep crossbows out ?? I mean, using your reasoning there must be something to gain for you to fight so hard against it, right ?

I've given you my reason - the argument makes NO SENSE to have compounds but not crossbows. No sense at all.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I think this might be my last post on this subject for a while and it may be long so please bare with me.

To all those who dislike the crossbow (in archery) because it's not what most PRESUME as "archery" ie: a hand held bow that must be drawn at (or about) the time of the shot and not 3hrs before or whenever. I think I understand this view more than all of the others because this is where the two are the most different. I think I got caught up in the letter of the definition and not the spirit of the definition. That being said It still does not change the definition, but I understand very much the problem some have with it. I myself have the hardest time with that part of it.

If you noticed I spent most of my time posting about the firearm vs bow debate. This I am stead fast on. I think there have been enough examples given to prove a crossbow is not a firearm.

So where do I stand on the matter? I don't shoot a crossbow, they are not legal in Illinois unless you have an handicap. But if I could I would probably try one to see what they are all about. I honestly do not think it would hurt anyone or anything if allowed. I say this because the states that do allow them seem to have no problems with them. Again I base my answer on the track record of the states that do allow them. After all what better case study than that?

Another hard question I have asked myself is, if allowed, what season would I want them allowed in? This one really got under some people's skin, and for the life of me I don't know why. I know some of you think you are alpha hunters and this is a "slap in the face" for "true" bow hunters if crossbows are included. I can tell you one thing for sure. I am as dyed in the wool hunter as you will ever find. I don't just hunt deer. As I stated before I have hunted pretty much anything you can in the lower 48 states. My passion for hunting is as strong as any on this board.

Because I have been around all types of weapons and all types of hunters I can safely say that you will find those who underestimate, overestimate and simply have limited knowledge of the weapon they are using. Some to the point that it's scary. My point is you find these types of people in every aspect of hunting and it would shock you as to the number or them. I know a guy who has been a bow huntng for 5 years now. The other day we were talking about his bow and I asked him what his draw length was....he didn't know! When I pressed him on it he said " my proshop sets up my bow for me"

I can't tell you how many hunters I talk to that have no idea the capability and range their slug shot gun has. They are either way underestimating it or overestimating it, both could spell disaster in the field. I had one tell me that a modern sabow slug could not kill a deer at 200yds. I was in shock and thought I hope he is never near me when I'm hunting, as he has no idea the killing range his gun has and would be the type to take a shot at a deer knowing there are other hunters a few hunderd yards away thinking his slug would never reach!

So what season? I wish there could be a way to separate them but I feel it would cause too much fighting because some group would have to give up some days and I can't see that happening. In some states it might work, but most no. The only logical one for me is the archery season if not for any other reason than a crossbow is not a firearm.

So can I find a negative about crossbows? No...... at least no more than I can find about any other type of weapon as none are perfect are they? Thats where I stand, it's not how everybody thinks and that's fine with me.

Thanks for listening.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I do not think that people as my uncle shot be in the same class as I am or any other bow hunter.If xbows are alowed than any one that can look thogh a scope can kill a deer in bow season.

There is a young boy up the road that is 17 years old. He is a green heared skate bord boy with no respect to hunting at all. When him and his bro [younger bro is a hunter] came to my house today day I talked to them about this cross bow thing. The yougher boy said he will kill a deer with his bow. The older boy siad I hope they make it legal to hunt with that xbow I would start hunting.

I thought mmmmm MABY this is a good thing.

Then I talked to them about how they would voat if the time came to help bow hunting.The jim the hunter said I will vote every time I can for bowhunting. His bro said heck I would not voat at all I would just go back to rifle hunting and if they take that away I will just ride my dirt bike quote[ the heck with hunting]

So I do not think the people that will join in on the xbow rush will stand stroung anyway. I shure do not see them posting on here how much the like to hunt with there xbows.

There is a place for a xbow it is in the hands of the bow hunters that can no longer hunt with a real bow.


I went on a ton of hunting trips with no wepion at all WAY befor I could draw a bow.This is the time I learned to hunt.You do not have to kill to learn to hunt.This is one of the main problems in rifle hunting.I would hate to see it come to bow hunting.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Other than the PETA comment I don't think it's true. I hunt with about everything you mentioned but a crossbow and I don't hate anybody?

I have to admit though the crybabies who are always crying for some rule change or another like a baby with a wet diaper are pushing it though. But it's got nothing to do with what ever LEGAL WEAPON they choose to use in a LEGALY REGULATED SEASON for that weapon. They are all the same whether they are balling for crossbows in archery, rifles in shot gun, or some antler restriction or one kind of buch moratorium. It's all a bunch of sour grapes and whining as a direct result of their own lack of hunting skill or percieved lacking there of.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

So go ahead an use them in your state however you see fit. I don't oppose that in any way what so ever. If your state chooses or not to allow something is no business of mine what so ever.

Same goes for those who use them in their home state when they are guests somewhere else. Read the rules, follow the rules, shut up and quit crying about the rules or go home.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Well you know what they say, ugly is only skin deep but stupid goes all the way to the bone!!!!! I would like to thank jacko and elk for once again making that so painfully obvious.:([:'(][&:]

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

BigJ12, Good post. I don't have a problem with crossbows at all. I may even try one someday. At least here in Texas they are legal to use during general season which is a month longer than archery season so there is no need to lobby to get them a season or legalized. Yes, its pretty obvious a crossbow is similar in some of its parts to a bow. However, its use is more similar to a rifle or shotgun. And whether a compound is soooooo easy to master or not, one still has the challenge of pulling the bow at the right time, holding steady with no aid (and I know of nobody that would use the "STEADY READY" contraption), making the shot without a high powered scope. There may be a few more differences but those alone are enough for me to be content with them in gun season. Would I stop hunting if they were allowed in archery season? Hell no. Do I believe there could be adverse effects? Yes. What are some of the things most of us like about archery season? Less people in the woods. No noisy guns. Less sloppy hunters. Yeah, yeah, there are sloppy bowhunters and we all know anyone shooting a compound is obviouly a lazy slob. But the truth is alot of gun hunters do not bowhunt even with a compound because they do not want to put forth the effort, an effort not required to shoot a crossbow. So I believe yes, there would be more hunters in the woods making noise and other distracting things making is less enjoyable for those bowhunting. If they want to hunt archery season then get a recurve, longbow, or compound. I think crossbows should be legal but should be allowed during gun season. I wonder why some states don't allow them even during gun season.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Are you saying there is a 100% success rate for crossbow hunters ? And as people have said before, if the technology gives the hunter a better success rate ......... thats GOOD, isn't it ? Fewer animals missed/wounded, right ?

Fact is, the above is just another wives tale. With a crossbow you still got to get within 20 yards and with them being so bulky and loud .... a compound is still a better weapon to hunt with.

Jack Ryan - thank God for the crybabies and rule changers that allowed your precious compund huh ? You know, the ones that bucked the rules and forced their way into invading archery season and taking it over ? And according to your grand philosophy, when then become legal in YOUR state, you'll immediately switch sides and become Pro-crossbow and defend their legality to anyone who questions it, won't you ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I have to admit I am finding myself siding with similar views to BigJ. The only point we really differ -
and we come to our reasoning by almost the same exact path. The reason I feel crossbows should have thier own season is that a crossbow is not a bow. Similar yes, but different. They should be allowed to hunt, and should be managed as their own line of weapons, and here's why.

The crossbow is also evolving as bows are. Some crossbows utilize cams similar to compounds to create extra energy and some use limbs similar to traditional. The laws that manage archery season are all bow centric, draw weight minimums, legal sights and others. As crossbows evolve they WILL require their own unique rules and laws to govern them, such as multiple bolt firing crossbows, remote controlled firing and others we haven't even imagined. They will be unique to crossbows and should be managed that way. I do think crossbows should be legal to hunt with, and they are in many states. I agree with the majority that does not consider them legal archery gear, but they should have similar access as their weapon does not differ much in effectiveness. Today most states have 3 "types" of seasons .. Archery, MuzzleLoader and Firearms, and in many states these overlap. Since they can overlap, we can fit 1 more and keep all reasonably happy.

One last point .. I agree with Data that compounds are a much better weapon to hunt with than crossbows. While he grossly over states how easy they are to master, with consistent practice and good shooting form they are an awesome weapon. I shot my recurve better due to the form I worked so hard on with my compound. But...
your "truck analogy" was HORRIBLE. Comparing GMC's to Ford's as being the same as bows and compounds was funny. I think comparing a truck and station wagon may have been better. They are different but do a similar thing, and from insurance and licencing perspective are different, but still will get your groceries home. Of course you know the crossbow is the station wagon!

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

My brother in law uses a crossbow and he misses deer at ranges under 30 yards. I'm giving him my old compound bow and will try to teach him to shoot it. I still think that even old compounds are more accurate than crossbows.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

So too are compounds. They are similar ......... but very different.

Look, its absolutely 100% fact that compound have revolutionaized archery. Never would have archery come as far as it has without them. Think of everything that has come from the compounds being allowed into archery season - hundreds of thousands more archers nationwide, 3D shoots, tourneys, clubes, organizations ............ look at the impact compounds have had on manufacturing, they are a large part of the whole archery world of clothing, gizmos and gadgets that fuel Bass Pro, Gander Mtn and Cabela's. Hunting shows and videos cater to bowhunting - and bowhunting IS compounds.

Trad shooting is more popular than it was even 10 years ago but still far from the popularity of compounds.

Compounds have redefined archery. And you won't hear hardly a negative word about it.

Why ?

Thousands more compound hunters is GOOD. isn't it ?
More accuracy, more success, less wounds/misses is GOOD, isn't it ?
Easier shooting for the archer is GOOD isn't it ?
The ultra high letoff, the triggered releases, high tec sights - its GOOD, isn't it ?

All that is viewed as GOOD - but the crossbow is all that too and viewed as BAD

Why ?

"because it isn't a bow" - is that the absolute best reason anyone can give ? An open ended generalized comment that isn't even true ? By definition it IS a bow, has been for thousands of years. Its in the dictionary - is compound bow ? A crossbow is every bit the bow as a compound is. Both vastly different than recurves/longbows.

Think about all that. Compounds 'invaded" archery season 40 years ago and did exactly what ya'll fear of crossbows - tens of thousands more hunters, easier to shoot weapons, more accuracy, higher success rates - same fears guys except archery seasons were NOT cut because of compounds, nor were bag limits and in AR, TX, GA, OH and other states its been shown that fear isn't reality either.

So it comes down to this - compounders ARE the very thing they claim crossbows to be. Hate crossbows in legal archery season and you're arguing against the very weapon you choose to use. Everything you say against a crossbow IS what a compound it.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Data- the reason you and I can never come to common ground is that you think a compound is "not" a bow based on it's differences with traditional equipment. I happen to think a compound is a bow, as much a bow as a recurve or long bow and based on all the reasons stated above. I hate to break the news to you, but EVERY state considers a compound a bow, the olympics, P&Y, NFAA, 3-d shoots and my indoor archery league. There are differences among bows. Long bows are different in their mechanics from recurves as they are from compound ... but they all work exactly the same and are shot exactly the same.

Now you seem to think because the effectiveness and range of crossbows is similar to compounds that should get them "included" ... but it doesn't. Just as it doesn't get shotguns into ML season, effective range and similarities don't qualify you for a season.

Compounds are and have been part of archery for 25+ years. As the sport of bowhunting has evolved it's always been there. Crossbows were to, but weren't considered archery gear. Why can't you get that MOST of us don't think a crossbow is a bow? Based on that, and we are by far the majority, the logical progression is to manage it as the seperate/different weapon that it is.

Archers shoot bows, not crossbows.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Data,

Now you are putting words in my mouth - I have never once claimed nor even thought that a recurve can be shot just as well as a compound. Also, I never said that crossbows are better than compounds. In fact, I've made it very clear that I agree with the fact that xbows are less effective than a compound.

I think you are arguing with too many people here, you can't keep your facts straight.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

MA JAY, well explained, If he replies negetive to it let him go. He probably goes home and holds a conversation in a tape recorder so he can argue even more than he does here.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

No, I'm not against compounds - I am in favor of using the most effective weapon available for the season. So if your criticisms of the crossbow are true, then what is the point of allowing another weapon into archery season that is (by your definition) less effective than a compound?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Not really, only so much as to argue against those who don't want crossbows. The difference in one to the other arre just as huge and obvious - I compare ALL of them while you're just stuck on crossbows. True ?

McAlister military base don't allow compounds. Does that mean they aren't bows ? Certain areas of Idaho are Trad only - no compounds. Does that make a compound not a bow ?


You are NOT serious ? A Mathews Outback works identically to a recurve ? Do you really believe that ?

Not gets them included soley based on effective range - but yes, it is yet another reason to allow them. They (crossbows) are bows that work every bit like a compound does - and equally as different as a reurve too

Majority of people 25 years ago was against compounds. Aren't you glad they lost the battle ?

AR,OH,GA,TX and every handicap person in every state that shoots crossbows disagre with that narrowminded, elitist point of view. As easily as you can declare that, so too can I say that since I shoot a recurve, your choice of a compoound makes you inferior and not worthy of the title "bowhunter" - right ?

If that is true, show me where I'm erring ?


CHOICE ! I choose a recurve (currently) and its by far less effective. And yes, its been said by several that compounds are their choice and that they are MORE effective for them to use deer hunting. Why NOT allow them ? If they are less effective few people in the great scheme of things will use them because of that and much like AR, OH, GA and TX their impact will not be as great as feared, will it ?

You're starting to piece together the argument I've been making all along. Crossbows are not nearly the weapons that compounds are - just like recurves/longbows/self bows. Their impacts on archery season will not be huge, no more so than they are in the mentioned states.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Read the post where you accused me of thinking recurves are just as easy to shoot as compounds and where you accused me of thinking xbows were more effective than compounds.


There you go again making false assumptions.

I have never once argrued that xbows were more effective than compounds

I told you from the beginning that I knew nothing firsthand about the effectiveness of a xbow. I have been agreeing with you that they are less effective based on information you provided - WHEN are you going to get that through your thick skull!

I'm saying - why allow the xbow in archery season if it is less effective than a compound?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Not true. I have always stated clearly the differences in the long, recurve and compound bows. All I need to do to conclude the crossbow is different is show how it does not share what all 3 of the bows share in common. That is how they are drawn and "held" at full draw and how they all require the same form to be shot accurately. (Form = bow hand grip, consistent anchor point, consistent sighting method, smooth arrow release and follow through)

Come on, of course it doesn't! Military bases, state parks, even some communities all have "special" rules they make to control game and limit hunting access.

Dude, do you really believe otherwise? If you do; you are not nearly as intelligent as you pretend to be on-line. The one thing ALL bows have in common are the manual drawing of a string attached to limbs that store the energy tranferred to them by the muscles of the person drawing the bow. Upon the manual release of the string that energy stored in the limbs is expelled and transferred into the string and then onto the arrow. At no point is the energy released from the "human" until release of the arrow occurs. This is why compounds are still bows and crossbows are not.... silly little man. This is easy to just take snippets and rip them apart!

Every bit??? Read above post, they don't work the same. If they did, then the crossbow couldn't create and maintain energy without the direct result of human muscle. But it does.. it is why they are different.

This is just your "opinion" and a dumb one at that. There was no HUGE anti compound sentiment... as I said before, when the compound was launched ... it was an inferior weapon to traditional equipment based on it's lack of reliability, consistency and noise alone.

You are a meatball. I have never said "better" or "inferior", just different. I personally think "Crossbowhunter" doesn't sound like a bad moniker to have... but why are you crossbow guys avoiding it like it's diseased? Perhaps because it validates the "different" part????

Here you have a valid point. Choice, and mine and other archers and 47 states have made the choice that a crossbow is not "archery" equipment. Doesn't make you less of a hunter to use one where legal, doesn't make you inferior to bowhunters .. it just makes you a crossbow hunter or in the case of the handicapped, a crossbow hunter hunting during archery season.

Ouch Data.. using this format all of your points seem so .... "silly"

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Data,

It seems I'm not the only one who's mouth you seem to be filling with your words.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I'll reply in length a bit later guys - I'm getting slammed at work. Don't think I wont reply though ;)

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Well they all shoot arrows. That is something they all 3 have in common so I guess that's a wash huh;)

That's funny cause I never saw cams on a recurve:eek: Come to think if of it I have never seen cables, axles, or a cable guard on a recurve. Yet despite of all the other things that go on with a compound while drawing you still think they are the same.[:-]

Well somebody has to pull it back initially. A crossbow is just a compound mounted on a stock with a latch to hold the string. That's it.

Have you been smoking something? Have you spent anytime around archery whatsoever? The trads were chicken flippin when they tried to introduce compounds into the archery season. If you don't think so then just ask any of the old timers around that were in it before compounds were brought on the scene.

Actually that's the essence of this whole thing. You guys think your special and people won't think you're so special anymore if crossbows are let in. Only specials people should be allowed in "you" season.[:-]:eek: Some of you guys couldn't stand the thought of a kid being out there and killing a bigger deer than you I would bet. Others are just affraid someone will have more of an oppurtunity than you. I don't understand why you take it so personal. But what baffles me even more is why you don't want to open the sport up to women and kids and the partially disabled.

No they haven't. That's like saying that becasue there were laws on the books saying that women couldn't vote that women had choosen not to vote:eek::( Come on you don't really believe that do you? If you want to give someone a choice then legalize it and let them decide which they prefer. That's a choice. However, the good news is that your "choice" is coming to an end because several other states are considering legalizing crossbows during the archery season and your state probably will be soon as well and then you will have to share your woods with the crossbowers whether you like it or not. Then you will have the "choice" to stay home or keep on hunting. Crossbows are coming whether you guys like them or not.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Data I have a question for you. What makes the compound so much different than any other bow? I am talking the use of it in a hunting situation, that is what we are talking about here. All are used in the same manor when game is present. Unlike a shoulder fired weapon. When I was Based in England we shot allot of Tournaments, you can't kill the damn Queens deer with a bow. When I came back to America I had and shot a English long bow that a local bower made, My bear Kodiak Magnum recurve, and a localy made American flat bow, I also shot my Compounds. All these are considered bows because, when used to propel the projectile it was done useing the same required motion, pulling the string back and maintaining the required pressure to hold it back. The crossbow is considered a shouldered fired weapon, do you agree? That is why you are getting the responses against them. It's not because we hate them,I have shot crossbows as well, there just considered a shoulder fired weapon unlike a bow, which in the eyes of bowhunters, that is the next step that makes them to much like a gun to be in the woods during bowhunting. All your other fact or opinions I agree with.

Please don't think because the above states you listed welcomed crossbows that most hunters did, here in GA there is a board that makes up our rules and regulation. If any Joe blow out there has an Idea, the board will make the ultimate verdict on what will happen. The last meeting I whent to was in Jan 05 more than 60% of that commitee was Biolgist. When crossbows were put up for voting there biggest concern was deer population control not where the weapon belongs. They knew that if they put a crossbow in gun season it would not attract as many hunters as it would in Bowseason, so hear we are with crossbows. I can't speak for evey state out there, but I do sit in on the rule meetings here. There open to the public. I don't want a debate It just seems like you are adding GA to your equation when it does not benifit your argument. Have a good one

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

No that's what your are talking about here becasue it's the only thing you have to hang your hat on. But in data's abscence I'll take a crack at it. It's shoot an arrow. It has identical tracetory. It has identical range. It has identical KE and or killing power. You still have to judge yardage like you would with any other bow. The only difference is instead or drawing you just have to raise the bow up. There's still movement involved but your not holding any weight. of course it would be OK if the let-off was 99% as long as it's on a compound:eek:[&:]

I am sure not all hunters were happy becasue most hunters have the wrong attitude and don't have the best interest of the sport at heart. But like you just alluded to, crossbows bring people into the season. So whether your own personal feelings were hurt or not, You have benefitted by the growing number of archers in your state. But then again alot of this has to do with greed so that' not going to be a very good reason for some of you. Also break down those that are happy and unhappy. A guy that thinks he is the greatest and crossbows shouldn't be allowed probably wasn't all that happy. But a woman that loved to hunt and hunted with her husband every gun season yet was unable to shoot a bow that will now be able to hunt with her husband during archery season, was probably pretty stoked. But then again to hell with her cause some of you guys don't need/want the competition.;)

So who gets to decide where they belong then? You? By your resoning since compounds were originally put there by biologists then they don't really belong there nor do they meet the criteria of a bow. Afterall that was what some of you used as a qualification for what a bow is, since the state DNR's say they are bows then they are bows? I don't care which way you guys go as long as you pick one and stick with it? Do the DNR's get to determine what is or isn't a bow or don't they? If so in 5 years when half of the states have legalized crossbows will you then refer to them as archery equipment?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Silent, this works both ways.

Nobody said there weren't similarities. It's the major differences between bows and crossbows I mentioned. According to you then any arrow shooting weapon is a bow? So pneaumatic arrow launchers are ok??? The projectile doesn't determine the weapon .. Silent, everyone knows that shotguns and ML shoot rifle bullets out of sabots... Guys, you are killing me,

It's still "limbs" and a "string" being drawn and held there by a person. Can't say that about a crossbow though...

The term "Chicken Flippin" is one of the funniest things I have heard in a long time. Yes, I did speak with the old timers ... you do realize that the number of "archers" 25 years ago was a fraction of what we have today right? At least with the 30 or so pre-compound shooters I shoot with, the compound was looked at more as gimmick that wouldn't work than anything else. Many of those old timers tried them, some stayed and some went back to what they liked. The one thing you fail to mention though... not 1 state that allowed traditional archery excluded the compound.

Have you not read a word "we" write? The choice we agree to is a seperate season.. hunt it if you want. Here the "choice" for crossbow hunters is a rifle, a shotgun or a crossbow. Archery season is not a choice becuase they aren't considered archery equipment.

Dude, you are right ... they are coming all right. Just ask Mississippi! Hell they are already here, just stuck in firearms season in almost every state where no one wants to use them.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

You said the ONE thing they all shared in common. I was merely pointing out there were things they all shared in common. You seemed to want to pick one issue to hang it all on but when I picked my issue you want to complete discount it[&:]

A crossbow doesn't have limbs and a string???? Are you sure about that?

Are you saying they all adopted the compound at the same time? If not then your point is irrelevant because if we have this conversation 10 years from now 100% of the states my adopted crossbows at which point I can say "not one single state failed to adopt them" at which time you will think that argument is pretty weak. Just like I do now;)

They may be a choice in your state soon. Will you call them archery equipment then? But the real issue is whether they can use them during the archery season. Why are you trying so hard to keep archery season all to yourself? Do you think you are helping the sport? You say you agree to a seperate season? If so do you agree to taking the archery season splitting the time between archery and crossbow season? That would only be fair wouldn't it? Or deserve more rights because you shoot a "special" bow?

i realize that and despite your best efforts to sabotage hunting as we know it, luckily the DNR's are realizing that we need additional hunters and they are taking the steps that need to be taken. It's one of the few things DNR's are actually getting right these days though they may be doing it for the wrong reasons. One thing you guys need to wrap your heads around is that in most states there is a whitetail poulation explosion. In those states the deer herd needs management and archery is a poor tool in the mangement arsenal. If there enough deer being taken out in archery season then archery season as a tool is useless and therefore expendable. Guess who is going to get the nod when more deer need to be taken out. ;)Yep the gun hunters. The DNR's may even come to the realization that there is no need for archery as a tool in the management arsenal and with so many groups leveling their sights on archery as inhumane etc. that they might just be better off getting rid of the archery season all together. But hey who cares, you kept those damn crossbowers out;)[:-]:eek::([:'(][&:][8D]

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Silent
I do agree with you, on most. The differance is still when it is used for hunting. I know that the rest is almost the same. But that is the whole point HUNTING SITUATION, because we are talking about them being in the same season with a bow, and using it during hunting season. Shoulder fired weapon verses not a shoulder fired weapon. There is allot of differances in all my bows but they require the same motion. Which is far from a crossgun. Its simple for me if it is used like a bow then it is a bow, reguardless of cams, pullies or a piece of wood, If it is shouldered like a gun, has a scope simular to a rifle, and requires no stgrenth to hold back, then it is not a bow Sir. That makes it more like a gun. I hunt on public land all year with a bow for everything, so all I do is share. I by far am not gready, so you can drop it from your equation.

As far as who should vote, Yes me and every other liscense buying hunter is that hunting residents only. If the rules effect the hunters don't you think we should have a say so, is there somthing wrong with DEMOCRACY. The Biolgists made that rule, did you read my last post? NOT WITH THE CONCERN OF THE WEAPONS LIKENESS, but with herd control in mind. If you are going to take a "crake" at it apply common since and good reason.

My wife can hunt with me in Bowseason so why does she need a crossbow to do it.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Yes a crossbow has limbs and a string, but it is NOT held at full draw by a person. That is why they are not considered bows.

Perhaps 100% of states will allow them during archery season... BUT, the fact they have been around for hundreds of years, are legal already during firearm type seasons but still have made almost no in road into archery season, I'll assume you'll need more than 10 more years to hold that over me.

Silent, do you actually read before you type? I say this because you assume there must be a correlation between "Archery Season" and "Crossbow Season". If you feel that there will be such an influx of new hunters and interest in a crossbow season it will of course need to be weighed into each states management plan. Why you insist that crossbows must be considered the same as bows is beyond me .. and frankly is not in the best interest of crossbow hunters. With your own season you could weigh the impact of your sport on the herds and hunter participation, validating all this fuss. I will be the adult that breaks the news to you, the world is not always "fair" to all people. Gun hunters don't get as much time in the woods as archers because their numbers and success would be detrimental to the deer herds. Since crossbow hunters have at best a weak and small following they may not generate the interest or need their own season, which leaves them hunting with firearm hunters in 47 states. Now should that change, and they grow in popularity, they may warrant their own season with state set guidelines.. which MAY or MAY NOT equal the time archery hunters get. Fair has absolutely nothing to do with it. Regardless of whether they hunt during rifle season, muzzleloader or archery season.... they will not be considered "archery" by me.

Crossbows don't make people stupid ...... they just prove it.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

So why do you care that a woman or kid get a little more of an advantage than you do? You get a little more of an advantage than trads hunters. Does that mean that compounds shouldn't be allowed in archery season? All of those other things still remain the same in a HUNTING SITUATION. You still have the same effective range in a hunting situation. You still have to judge yardage in a hunting situation. You still have the same amount of KE in a hunting situation and you still shoot an arrow in a hunting situation.

That's just were you have shoosed to draw the line in order to justify your own personal choice. Others may shoose to drawn the line differently. What gives you the right to decide for everyone else should drawn the line?

Again that's your opinion but some people and some states disagree with you so shouldering it being the only difference you can point to why do you care if someone else shoots one if it doesn't effect you and allows others who may be less fortunate or have less aptitude than you to hunt during the archery season?

I don't think so. you just explained to me why you are so greedy. You don't want to share "your" public hunting areas.

No I don't have a problem with that at all it's just simply not how it's done. Ask DC if he got a vote when MS propsed the use of crossbows. The answer is NO. Legislators and the DNR decide. They may ask for your input in ofer to appease everyone but at the end of the day the only vote that counts is theirs.

well then we have to assume they also made the decsion to allow compounds based on herd control and therefore we can't consider it a bow. That was your groups rationale for what is a bow and what isn't, wasn''t it. "Because 47 states say it's a bow" But now your discounting that. Do the states and DNR's get to decide or not? If not then your argument is shot to he!!

We I am glad for your wife but the fact that she is capable doesn't make everyone capable and you are still trying to keep those folks out of archery season.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

No that' why YOU don't consider it a bow. That's a pretty flimsy reason to descriminate against other hunters IMO.


Well the whitetail population explosion hasn't been going on that long so crossbows are just now being looked at as another possible management tool by many states. You may be right but then again you may not be. If I am right and there are legal in the majority of states in the next 10 years will you then consider a bow?

have you read any of my posts? I want them to be allowed in archery season to eveyone that wants to hunt during the archery season can do so. But can you explain why being able to choose and why allowing those that may not be able to use a compound or trad equipment to hunt is not in their best interest?

But why exclude people that we should be trying to recruit into our ranks?

I hate to keep beating this drum but that's like saying that women didnt' need to vote since they didn't draw enough interest to themselves. That's pretty assanine isn't it?

well that's definitely where are stances differ. i think anyone that wants to should have the chance to hunt during the archery season. To me archery season is a wonderful thing an big part of my life and something that I love and cherrish very much. I personally don't want to deprive anyone of enjoying that just as I do especially when the differences that we are talking about are so minute and ultimately inconsequental.

So disabled people are stupid because they use crossbows?[:'(]:(

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

next year im gonna hurt with the crossbow out of the blade movie thats a gatlin gun that shoots arrows. death to all 4 legged beasts and turkeys

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

You just clearly pointed out why though similar in effectiveness to bows, crossbows should have their own season. Because your point above is EXACTLY true of ML, shotguns and rifles... and guess what, they each have their own seasons.... you write it, but don't understand what you type.

No, the line already exists. Crossbows just ended up on the wrong side for your liking. Try as you will, they aren't on the archery side.

They didn't "allow" compounds to be considered legal archery equipment. It qualified by meeting all of their defined criteria already. They have ALWAYS been considered bows. After 50 pages I would think you'd have figured out it was the crossbow that isn't considered a bow and it doesn't meet the legal criteria to qualify for archery season.

Guess what? They are out of archery season. That doesn't mean they can't hunt though! Just as gun hunters, and muzzleloader hunters have to wait till their season, so do crossbow hunters. Asking someone to wait is now a bad thing? We should all roll over for some impatience from a few crossbow hunters. Ok.. that's going to happen.