RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

uh, almost got it right there.....

Crossbows = easiest
Compounds=easier than longbows
Recurves = hard

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

IL Rancher,

I know that's your opinion but I don't think you will actually see that happen. At least I haven't seen it in my area and they are legal here. I honestly can't think of one single guy that is able to hunt with a compound yet hunts with a crossbow. I know I have met a few but none that I know very well and none that come to mind right off hand.

I have a buddy that picks his bow up every year the day before bow season. He shoots a couple of shots. He is hitting where he is suppossed to. He goes to the woods and kills deer. I fuss at him about it but it's kind of pointless because he never misses and he never makes bad shots. I have videoed out of the same tree with him. He's got nerves of steel and he always makes a good shot under pressure though he doesn't shot 50 shots a year.

Do you think it should be taken from the general archery season?

I would agree they are not the same mechanically though I think that is irrelevant since they are the same from a performance standpoint. However, I also think there is as much or more difference between compounds and trad equipment as I do between compounds and crossbows.

#1 Not far from it.
#2 I couldn't agree with you more. I hate them with a writhing passion.
#3 Got to disagree with you there. When used with a proper set up they can be very effective.
#4 Agreed!
#5 Yep;)


Which many today, including myself, would call unethical.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

SA,

I can't say I know 100% of the bowhunters in this area but I do know quit a few who have flat out told me they will switch. These are not the hard core guys but the ones that go out maybe 7 times a season and who only bow hunt because it falls during the rut. I think it will be different results in different states because each state has a slightly different population deomographics. For that matter it will be different results for different areas in the state.

Around here there are lots of guys who have picked up bows in the last 5 years or so that aren't married to the idea. The only thing that would probably keep them from switching to crossbows will be the economics of shelling out the money on a new one when you can buy used bows real cheap. Now, the question remains will they continue to hunt with the crossbow down the line? That I have no idea. Given the choice of hunting with a bow and hunting with an X-bow I would choose the bow. I have shot a crossbow. Don't like them. Talk about them with local shop owner all the time. While he is not a big fan of them he does think they should be allowed into general Archery season. His opinion is about the same as mine when it comes to many of his customers switching out to them. Also you should understand that this part of the county has a very high average age and many of these gentleman are farmers who think using a bow is just to darn hard because they 1) Own a mid 80's compund or 2) shot a bow when they were a kid and quit. and 3) Don't have time to practice very often. I see these guys shoot, lets just say they aren't getting the same results as some of you folks are

As far as it getting kids into hunting. It might but will it keep them in it? I don't know. The thought of my daughter walking around with a loaded weapon that weighs more than she does is does not sound appealing to me. Maybe I will feel differently in a few years when she isn't 2 years old but I don't know. I see a lot of 10 year old girls pulling 25-30 pounds down at the range, trying to build up over the next year or two to build up strenght. And they are having a great time doing it. (their accuracy isn't the best either).

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Sorry to join the issue here so late I just joined, but the big issue that some of us bow only hunters have is. That if it is not reconized by the trophy archery hunting system that is already in place Pope and Young. Then it should not be in the same season. If it's already loaded (cocked) like a gun, and you shoulder it like a gun, and look through a scope like a gun, then it should be in the same season as a gun. That is why most of the bow only hunters don't want them in the same season. I agree that the compound is easier than my recurves and long bows, but atleast they operate on the same princiaple. There are some simularties between a crossbow and a compound, but anyone can see that the crossbow is more simular to a gun, than a bow. Heck man I think we should call them crossguns instead of crossbows:D.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

flat feet - rules change. P&Y didn't allow >65% letoff for years, do you think they should have ? They had too because they realized the ast majority of compounders were using them and they would continue to and they'd lose a great following if they didn't tweak there "rules"

P&Y is a private club, making whatever rules they want. If they made a no mechanical broadheads rules would you deduce then that mechanical broadheads should not be allowed in archery season ?

The P&Y club, while doing great things, is a selfish club that has its own intrests at heart.


BOWFANATIC - I am currently shooting a Hoyt Gamemaster recurve. Do you know why ? I love the challenge of trad shooting - no sights, no letoff, no release, no gizmos or gadgets .......... just nock, draw, focus and shoot. Its my challenge, its my choice of bows that affords me challenge yet also a resaonable shot at shooting a deer and filling a tag.

MY CHOICE. Yet is is far away from the challenge of cutting an osage stave and whittling my own self bow. I'm choosing an EASIER route becasue even though its easy in comparison, its still tough for me.

You are doing exactly the same thing. You are shooting a compound because its a challenge to you - correct ? You shoot it because you find it fun, yet challenging, but still affords you a reasonably good chance at killing a deer.

But you're far from the challenge of shooting a recurve or longbow, and farther still from self bows.

You see, you and I have challenges that we take, and we base it on many things. Time available to practice, money, goals, sheer fun in shooting the chosen weapons ....... many things. I UNDERSTAND why you shoot a compound, you probably understand why i shoot a recurve.

What seperates us is I also understand people finding the challenge of bowhunting with a crossbow challenging. Perhaps not the shooting aspect (though you full well know I believe compounds very easy) but getting within 20 yards of a deer and making the shot ? Thats a huge challenge for guys - be it shooting a crossbow, a compound or whatever their chosen weapons.


I'm not forcing you nor would I ever without proof that compounds are a negative to archey - to choose a recurve. I don't think we should force guys who want to shoot crossbows to shoot compounds or trad bows either for the same reasons.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

It's me again. I think that may be the most well written response you have stated yet. The issue of forcing people is a very good point. Right now, crossbows are not allowed in most states during archery season for healthy people. So forcing crossbows into archery season is the option some are advocating for. Crossbow use is allowed in many states, even mine here in NH. That use is limited to firearm season though, not archery season. The ability to shoot and use crossbows is available in many states right now, just not during archery season. So as hunters we have options, accept the allowed weapons in our season of choice .. fight to change the rules of what weapons are allowed in different seasons ... or wait till the appropriate season to use the legal weapon.

See, not many people here are fighting an out right ban on crossbows. We're not also telling them they must shoot bows and not crossbows. Just that archery season, as it is defined in 47 states is bow only for healthy people, and we think they got it right when they set it up that way. To many of us, having to wait till shotgun or rifle season is ok and we accept it .. we don't think that because muzzleloaders are so similar in effectiveness or range that we should allow shotgun use during muzzleloader season. No one argues that compounds and traditional bows have differences .... but crossbows differ in fundamental ways to bows, just as muzzleloaders differ from rifles and shotguns in fundamental ways .. and as such have their own followers and seasons. We could argue till we die about how technology affects things making them easier and more effective to use .. but in the end, bows are bows, muzzleloaders are muzzleloaders, rifles are rifles and shotguns are shotguns .. just like crossbows are crossbows. They are all different and unique and should be managed that way, just like they are today in almost every state.

To me fighting to let crossbows be considered bows .. is exactly the same as saying lets consolidate muzzleloaders and rifles and shotguns. You could argue on the merits of their equal ranges and effectiveness, but at the loss of their uniqueness and differences.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

No one if forcing you to use one - its simply allowing a person the option to shoot what is very much the same kind of close range bow as a compound is. Still gotta get 20 yards from the deer, still got just one shot with one arrow tipped with a broadhead. They work a bit differently, but we don't want to start with the comparisons again or we'll have to also point out how vastly different compounds are from recurves as far as machanics, shootability, accuracy, range etc etc, right ?

I keep pointing out (and ya'll keep ignoring) than never, ever has legalization of crossbows led to a negative in any archery season. Arkasnsas, Ohios, Georgia ........ no negatives. Ever. What you fear - be it more hunters, less season, less bag limits, whatever IS NOT A REALITY. It simply isn't.

With that knowledge, then what the holdup is on crossbows comes down to what you personally believe takes archery to a level that eliminates a large part of what archery IS. That is, dedication, practice, difficulty, shootability, capable range of making kills ........ whatever. And ya'll say "well, a crossbow is easier blah blah blah"

Compounds are vastly easier too.


And that is my argument. As easy as crossbows seem, so too are compounds. That is true - thats why most archers USE compounds instead of recurves/longbows - its EASIER. You want your easy - but you don't want anyone else to have easy unless its the easy you want.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Data

you are the man. I don't know anybody else that can stir up trouble (to their own satisfaction, I'm sure) for 30 pages while basically having everybody restate and restate......blah blah blah

now here I go again as well too---you got me

The issue is really much simpler than most people are making it.
Compounds are easier to become a proficient hunter with than recurves
likewise crossbows are easier still--however there are more significant differences between crossbows and any archery equipment and everybody knows it.

The issue though is the difference between banning and enforcing a restriction that is already in place.

I think that most true advocates of hunting and the outdoors would never ever want to deal a blow to the hunting community by making them take a step backwards. That is what you would do, if you would attempt to ban compounds which are now widely accepted and used throughout the country, for being too easy ( not that I think they are too easy---just making a point)
But it is true the selection that you have on weapons and the improvements is growing toward the ridiculous, so that is why I advocate the point of maintaining the current restrictions, along with allowing crossbows to continue where they are currently already accepted. likewise compounds should stay restricted in areas reserved for primitive weapons.

that is the issue: banning (which I interpret as getting rid of after being previously accepted) versus just maintaing the current restrictions in favor of using hunting skill (however easy those skills are being currently acheived) over technology

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

All i want to know is what about spears? What about slingshots? Id like to use a potato gun to hunt squirrel. Im going to use a catapult next year i think. Mount it on a swivel in the back fo my truck and im going to launch bricks out of it at deer and throw corn all around my truck. Truck will be painted camo and asat camo for myself will be purchased.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

You are right, many archers want "easier" and because of this shoot the latest and greatest. The reason we archers feel so strongly about crosbows is the radical difference between adding a more advanced stabilizer, limb saver or fiber optic sight pin and allowing a whole new type of weapon. Easier may mean a cam or even a release when comparing a recurve to a compound .. but it surely doesn't mean a cocked and loaded shoulder fired weapon that allows for the use of magnified rifle type scopes. Some ask "where" is the line we stop at .. well the line I and many like me drew is when you take a bow, mount it on a stock and add a retained stand alone trigger mechanism and make a totally differnet weapon called a crossbow. When it's not a bow anymore, but a totally different weapon ... you've left archery and entered something else. Doesn't make it bad, and the effective ranges are similar if not identical, but they are different. Just as the well established precedent of ML and FireArm seasons are different, so are bows and crossbows.

Data .. a crossbow and a compound bow are different. You can argue till you're blue in the face that compunds are different from traditionals, which nobody here denies. Even easier to shoot, but that does not validate the argument that compunds and crossbows are so similar that we should all universally adopt crossbows into the accepted definition of archery. Even when OH allowed Crossbows during archery season, they still defined them as different weapons .. Longbows and Crossbows and the Longbows those being traditional and conventional have their own requirements and rules, and the Crossbow their own rules as well. When Arkansas allowed the use of Crossbows during archery season they still define the bows (Long, recurve and compund) and crossbows as different.