RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Unfortunately, I have to sign off until tomorrow y'all have fun and keep it civil;)

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I don't think that.

I may not have relayed my point well enough. I know there are big differences between compounds and long bows, I know there are big differences between compounds and crossbows.

My point is I feel the differences between the two (compound and long) are just as bad and big as the other (compound and cross) yet long bows and compounds are in the same season so why can't crossbows?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Come on man, I thought you got paid to do this stuff;)

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

We agree on more than one thing!:D

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Dog hunting isn't issue in Arkansas as much as tresspassing, which is not a legal activity, but some dog hunters don't recognize that.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

trad archers hate compounds and crossbows - i thought you knew this ? Its why we're called Elitists

Actually, muzzleloaders and inlines ARE quite close in the way they function and their performances. Real close actually. In fact, so close some shotguns you can get muzzleloader barrels, and some muzzleloaders you can get shotgun barrels !

Crossbows and compounds share much - neither have any similarities to ammount to anything with recurves/longbows. You can bounce up and down all you want, but it simply isn't true and we've SHOWED you the facts

Why can't you ? The difference is obvious between rifles/pistols and muzzleloaders - that being muzzleloaders don't have shelled casing and are single shot weapons. Inlines are way, WAY different than muzzleloaders 15 years ago and in fact, banned by some states up until recently because they pushed too far into what IS and ISN'T a muzzleloader.

They are similar, but different in the way they functions and their , for lack of better words "mechanics". Hey - so are compounds ! :D

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

1. Thanks

2. Yep sure do

3. Well he sure has the skills and the size (6'6" 237)that you want on a QB, but that dosen't allways get you into the first round.

Hell what do I know...I went in the 8th! and I still think I should have been a 1st rounder:D

They don't even have 8 rounds anymore do they..geeze I'm getting old.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

In what book dose it say YOU CAN NOT TAKE A KID THAT CAN NOT SHOOT SOME THING HUNTING. I take kids every year that can ton hunt yet. I PACK my son on my back up to 7 miles to bow hunt with friends. I DO NOT FOR ! MIN> THINK HE SHOULD GET TO BOW HUNT BEFOR HE CAN SHOOT A REAL BOW>But in NO way dose that meen he will not go. That is just not right to think kids have to beable to kill something to get to go hunting.


I do a lot with kids it is not about KILLING deer. It is about geting to go enjoy the out doors. Maby that is the xbow peoples problem.No one is saying kids cant hunt they just have to get stroung enough to hunt with a bow befor killing a deer NOT going hunting.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I also need to sign off (Dinner time:D)

I have work to do later so I will check back in tonight.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

If you want them to enjoy archery season - teach them to use a bow!!!

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

It's getting too hard to go back and quote each question pertaining to my posts. I come back after eight hours and there's another ten pages.[:o]

BigJ12

Why you pointing your big finger at me for "people not reading your posts"?:D That wasn't me that made light of that!
You didn't play with the Broncos in 96 did you?

Oh , the Bears still suck!!![8D]


Data

You still haven't responded to my research question. The effects of compound use had nothing to do with the point I was trying to make.

Lets try this...for those states that currently allow crossbows..

Pretend your state doesn't allow crossbows (except handicapped). Lets say your state sells 250,000 bowhunting licenses each year and bowhunters have an anual harvest of roughly 50,000 deer each year. Bowhunters also have the longest season for obvious reasons. Lets say your state sells 600,000 gun hunting licenses each year and the gun harvest is normally around 400,000. Your gun season is 9 days long. Adding the two harvests together gives you an anual harvest of 450,000 deer. Your deer herd is estimated at 1 million. Your game division has calculated that keeping the anual harvest rate slightly under half of the total estimated population will be good management , keeping the deer herd in check while offering plenty opportunities each year.

Now , pretend you ARE one of the game managers (DNR) in your state and for whatever reason you have to make a decision on where to put crossbows (crossbows were voted into use by all).
I would imagine in your decision process that you would take into account all possible effects it could have on the deer herd. The only current info you have to base your decision on is three states that dont have the same amount of hunters , the same size deer herd , the same monitoring/registering process , or the same herd estimation process.
Do you just toss it into the archery season?
Or do you put it into a seperate season to accurately monitor it's effects?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

BOWFANATIC - are those real numbers ? Because we can pretend all we want with number. I can counter that by saying that with pretending the additional archery harvest will increase by 20,000 animals, which it likely wouldn't, and that 90% of those animals are taken by 2 season hunters, meaning that 18,000 tags are not going to be filled in rifle season (they were taken in archery instead)

No real impact then, is there ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Does anyone want to make an honest attempt at answering my question?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Denver.

No, out of the league by then[&o]

I'm not sure who was the first, but I do remember you and others saying a couple of times "We are reading your posts" or something to that effect. I just thought it was funny and you were the only person I thought of at the time.:D

Not a big Bears fan either.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I will give it a shot.

Ok, yes you could create a separate season but I don't think you need to. All you have to do is have the personal at the check stations ask a few simple questions when a hunter is checking in his/her deer. Like, what type of bow did you use?

The Illinois DNR has been doing this for years. during gun season you are asked what type of weapon you used. They also ask if you have seen other types of animals while hunting and if you have had any problems with other hunters.

By doing this you can have all of the different bows in the same season and still keep track. You will also avoid the problems and bad blood that I think everybody here can agree would come to light if the bowhunters season was cut to.....gasp! allow in crossbow hunters.

Doesn't that sound like a better option?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Example 1.My fatherinlaw. Bow hunted till the years of physical labor took toll on his body.In late 40's couldnt pull a bow back anymore.Couldnt get permit for crossbow so just gun hunted till he passed away.Here is a guy who hunted his whole life and because he got older his deer season is cut down to 20 days.He told me many times if he could use a crossbow that would be great to get in the woods during archery.In NY it isnt easy getting a permit.You have to be major disabled to qualify.

Example 2.My wife.Weighs in soaking wet at 85 pounds.She shoots 3-4 times a week but still cant get to a min. draw weight of 35 pounds.She helps me scout,put up tree stands,and wants to hunt.We are working with a pro shop to get her strengh up but we have been working at it for 2 years.Not many people have that patience.

Example 3.My kids.All possible future voters and future hunters but unfortuante for them built like their mom.They have a huge love for the outdoors now but what does the future hold?With numbers of hunters leaving and not recruiting what is lost where will bow hunting be in 30 years?You might not be here but what about your kids?

Before its said yes my wife could gun hunt if she wanted.She doesnt enjoy guns and is nervous being in the woods in gun season.Gun season up in western NY is an experince in itself.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

mdbllung
your fatherinlaws seasion was cut down BY his own meens.You do not have to KILL some thing to get to hunt. Did he even try to get the xbow permit? Most older guys are TO prowed to even try to get the permit.

My wife started out shooting 28 # took her 2 years to get to hunt.BUT she hunted with me anyway allmost every trip.When she could shoot the 45#s she had allredy learned a very big amount about bow hunting. So the TIME SPENT IN THE WOODS WITHOUT A BOW HELPED A TON. Now 14 years latter my wife shoots 55#s and has killed an elk with her bow.

My sone is 4 years old I teach him every day about some thing in the outdoors.I do not beleave for 1 sec if he cant kill an elk befor he is stroung enough to BOW hunt he will ever stop LOVEING the out doors.

I do not get it, if all people worie about is killing a deer GO TO A DANG FARM. Bow hunting is way more than just geting to KILL a deer. All the xbow guys are saying the boy can hunt!!!!! THIS IS CRAP MY BOY IS ONLY 4 YEARS OLD AND HE HUNTS WITH ME VERY CHANCE I CAN GO.My son at 4 has seen 3 elk killed so far in his life,and every one was bow shot :}

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Thanks for your honest opinion!

Although I disagree.:D Here's why...

Having a "questionare"(<so to speak) on what type of weapon used would not be 100% fool proof. There are many reasons why someone could/would just say they used a longbow or compound when they used a crossbow (hunting contests,bravado,etc.) It would have to be just a questionare too , since all types of bows are allowed. Anything more than just a questionare? Then your opening up a can of worms that the WIDNR would just close in a hurry! Too many budget cuts in WI. (cost of CWD,etc.etc.etc.)

To get a true handle on what effects of allowing crossbows during archery season would have on the deer harvests for each individual state , you'd have to first get an accurate grasp on the participation and harvest percentages. The only way to do that would be to start a crossbow season.
Yes! Bowhunters will complain anyway. Why? Selfishness. They dont want to give up any of their season. I dont feel that way. I'd be happy to give up some of my season for a new weapon. I'd probably (NO I WOULD) buy a crossbow and join the crossbow season myself.
If we have a few seasons for the crossbow and it shows no negative effects on the length of everyones hunting seasons , and the majority of your states hunters are all for it , then by all means let their be one season.
If we were to just go ahead and allow crossbows for anyone in our four month season , right off the bat , and the participation and harvest percentage was big enough to do damage to our deer herd , then everyone would be complaining.
It's kind of like sticking your foot in the water to see how cold it is before just jumping in.

What do you think?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

These are very valid points please take the time to read them. I highlighted a part of particular interest. (I hope you don't mind Mdbllung)

With all of this talk about deer herds (with the exception on a few states) on the rise, not many have talked about hunters on the decline. Why would you want to deny or limit an opportunity to get more people into hunting. By saying crossbows should be illegal or only in their own sepatate season, how are you helping future bow hunters? It dosen't bother you that you may loose potential hunters by forcing them to use a compond, recurve or long bow? Especially in the circumstances listed above?


A guy does nothing but bow hunts his ENTIRE life until he can no longer pull back the string on his compound, long or recurve bow. So he goes looking for what?? A CROSSBOW!! If crossbows are SOOO different from "archery" why do they buy them? Just to extend their season? Why not just pick up the old trusty rifle or slug gun and head into the woods during gun season?

Why? Because those old hunters know it's still bow hunting. And it allows them the opportunity to continue to hunt the exact same way they always have. I will say it again, NOTHING about the HUNT changes. The weapon changes but the hunt does not! It's the same because all of the varaibles are the same it's just the weapon that's different. The range is the same, the stalk is the same, the type of projectile is the same, it's propelled the same, the thrill of having an animal so close you can hear them breathing or eating or snorting is the same.

Why do you think the handicapped choose the crossbow over a gun? Because the HUNT is different! They want to be able to BOW HUNT. You think they choose a less powered weapon with a drastically shorter effective range from a firearm because they think it's all the same??? No, because it's bow hunting. They are bow hunting.

Think about that the next time some of you say crossbows should be in gun season or are not bows.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I think you are starting to sound more like someone seeing our side.:D

Seriously.....I agee 100% with you and I mean 100% There will probably be those who would lie about their choice of weapon, I don't think enough to make a difference in the stats but you are correct to say in order to be 100% sure you need to separate the season. I also agree that bow hunters will complain and again with their reasons for doing so "selfishness"

We don't have to agree on "is a crossbow a bow" when we agree on the other things you listed. At that point it would not matter.


I also agree with you here as well. I would not want to hurt a herd just to introduce a new weapon. I am not sure if your theory would work but it's the best one I have heard so far and I would go along with it.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Bowfanatic,

I cut this sentance out of your post for two reasons:

1. It shows that you would have no problem with crossbows included in the bow season (assuming no negative effects to the herd etc..)

2. Allowing crossbows into bow season is a big big problem for most here because they don't feel it should be included (for whatever reasons) and you might just get some flak for saying that. But not to worry...you have me to help.;)

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Dang BigJ! I didn't expect a reply until the morning. Are you working nights too? Or are you just letting this crap keep you up all night?:D

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

If you look at my posts waaaaaay back in this thread you'll notice I asked the question..."why not a seperate season". My feelings towards a seperate season are generated by the same feelings the majority of folks have concerning the crossbow issue...fear. Fear of being taken over by crossbows , having too big of harvests , and shortening the seasons.




I should also add this...

Starting last year in Wisconsin , anyone over 65 years of age can legally hunt with a crossbow. I personally think it's the best damn thing our DNR has done in a long time! It used to be that anyone 65 or over didn't have to purchase a fishing license. I also strongly felt that was an excellent thing! But , since it's all about money now , our DNR changed that law.[:@]

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Cant sleep thank god for this thread!

BOWFANATIC

What your worried about I am too.I love my bow season and would hate to see it shorten up.If crossbows ever come in our bow season I'll stick with my compound but someone wants to shoot one so be it.

ELKINMTCWB

"by his own means"?The guys shoulders gave out from years of heavy labor providing for his family.What should he have done?poached so he wouldnt have to work hard.He tried they denied.
Thats cool your wife had the patience to work up her draw weight my wife is doing that too.my wife also goes out when she can to watch,learn and bond.She saw me arrow an eight point three years ago.She has to draw almost half her body weight.see were I'm going.
No I dont want your or my 4 year old killing deer.Dont think their ready.I loved the outdoors before I ever hunted and believe they will to but if because of their pyshical stature they cant share in the joy of bowhunting will they(future voters)defend bowhunting?Will they put money into the hunting community and fight for the issues concerning all of us?
Does a crossbow make it easier?Yes I think it does but if it brings in the smaller framed hunter and the older seasoned hunters I'm willing to take the risk.
Also hunting is killing lets not be ashamed of it.I like watching the sunrise,the songbirds,the squirells collecting nuts,and all the rest but thats not why I spend $70 for a licsence every year.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

OK now we know how you feel but why should you get to decide for other parents and other children when they will be able to hunt?

Being able to shoot a bow doesn't make them able to draw legal and ethical hunting weight.;)

Why can't you do both? In Arkansas when you kill a deer during archery season you have to specify what you killed it with when you check it. If people are going to poach and not report deer they killed then they are going to do it whether crossbows have their own season or not. Saying corssbows is going to cause poaching is like saying guns cause crime? You don't really believe that do you?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Oh dear God we have had a revelation;)

and the truth shall set them free:)

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

You know what... after all these comments the 1 main reason the crossbow guys give for including a crossbow during archery season is there is no negative to doing it.

Which was Data's point with the whole thread..... you are arguing because you do not percieve a negative to changing something, then it should be changed. If the world worked this way, what a messed up place it would be. See change does not occur because there is no negative to changing... in fact this has been BigJ's mantra, I don't see the negative, so change it. Well since the rules / law / definitons are set ... lets look at the positives of adding crossbows to archery season. I though about this last night. Your percieved positives can be just as easily dismissed as the negatives I percieve. Archery season doesn't benefit, archers do not benefit. Crossbow guys do, but not archers. At best ... it doesn't affect them much, at worse it reduces their seasons. Crossbows could add new hunters you say, I say there is a Crossbow season and it doesn't seem to be adding new people ..... you say crossbows give people choices and doesn't force them to learn archery or develop muscles to draw bows with .. I argue that Archery is what it is because of those requirements, you want women and children be allowed to use crossbows ... I argue they already can, you say but not when they want to, I say the "want" part is out of your control and is dictated by Fish and Game. We all want to hunt right now, but we have to wait.

After reading all of these posts .. the MAIN reason to change archery season to allow crossbows is because you do not percieve any negatives is the weakest of reasons to change. Change should be because change improves or makes better ... and in the end, that is why crossbows are not allowed in almost every state. If changing archery season to include crossbows were to make it better, I would be the first one on the band wagon... but it doesn't. For every percieved positive on your part, I can dismiss it away as easily and with as little regard to all the negatives we supplied. If I couldn't .. you'be be able to use crossbows everywhere during archery season.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

We have a winner! MAJay! This was the original question posed by Datamax. Through the 96 pages of this thread we have seen negative speculation, opinion, and emotions toward crossbows but no hard negative facts. So this thread has come full circle.

BigJ12

Wow, I was looking at your statistics on your size and you ought to have my nickname. I've got an inch on you, but you've got 30 lbs on me and you lifted a heck of a lot more than I ever did.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Very good post MA Jay.

I agree 100%.

And like Silent and Data have said all along, they never even see a xbow....If that is the case, why even bother? To pander to a very very very small handful?

Another fear I have about letting xbows into archery and having xbows catagorized with compounds is this....... I think we open the door for the 1% letoff, draw locks, etc on all bows to become the standard.... I just don't want to see that happen.... And it would..... The overwhelming demand in the market in easier, faster, more accurate, etc at
whatever cost.....

Sure, that hasn't happened in AR, GA , or OH, but they make up just a twinkling of the bowhunting community. If xbows were passed nationwide, I believe we would see the end of compound bow hunting as we know it. The bows would continually evolve until the xbow and compound were the EXACT same weapon, one being horizonal, the other vertical.

Now, Data will scream....THAT IS ALREADY HAPPENING!!!! But not on a large scale.....

Something to think about boys.........

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I am now thoroughly convinced that you either didn't read or didn't understand a single one of my posts. I have explained several times what I believe the positives are and that while there may be some perceived negatives they are far outweighed by the positives so there is no sesne in even trying to take the conversation down this road.

Not without also admitting that the reasons revolve solely around greed;)

Archery or bowhunting? Archery may not have much benefit while bowhunters and bowhunting tend to benfit a great deal by having an increased presence in the field. How can you possibly argue that there isn't strength in numbers? But either way pick a story and stick with it. In one sentence you say the effects of crossbows on bow season will be catastophic and in the next sentence you say there is no one out there wanting to use crossbows and that we wouldn't gain any hunters. It's not helping your argument that you keep flip flopping and it's not helping your argument that you keep dodging me like a championship fighter[:-]

Well two things go into play there. One most people don't want to go in the woods with a lesser weapon when everyone else is out there with a gun but you are still excluding those people from the archery season based on your own predjudice. Two, I would be willing to bet that your state has no way of tracking how many deer were killed by each different type of weapon during the gun season so in actuality you have no way to say whether they are being utilized or not.

No I said it gave them choices. I said it gives people that couldn't otherwise be in the woods a chance to be in the woods. I said it gave people a chance to enter the sport at a level they felt more comfortable. I said it lessened the chance of of wounded deer for new archers. You put the only spin you can to that which is "doesn't force them to learn (and pay their dues and be a big man like me:eek:) blah blah blah yea we get it no one else deserves to be in the woods unless they are as physically able as your are and have jumped through as many hoops. Yea we got it:eek:


Right you mean archery is what it is to you. It is what you have built it up in your mind to be (an elitist boys club). Because archery is something different to everyone and just because it's something different to them doesn't make you right and them wrong.

I say they can hunt but why should they have to limit themselves to such a short season when you could share "your" achery woods with them. I say why should they have to wait until the gun season and then hunt with a weapon that is so inferior to a gun when they could be hunting during the bow season and sharing the woods with weapons that are much much more similar. I say "want" is also the pivotal issue which is why I have spent 95+ pages trying to convince you guys that you need to help convince the Fish and Game folks rather than standing in the way and lobbying against little Johnny.

Getting more people involved in the bowhunting doesn't make bowhunting better and stronger?

How do you know until you give it a shot. It certainly hasn't hurt things in the states where they are allowed. At least not by the accounts of the hunters and that's what you are really worried about isn't it?

Sure you can but it's just self justification of your own greed and self righteousness.

Now that's like saying if women deserved to vote they would have been allowed to vote. But that isn't right, they did have the right to vote but it took them a long time to get those privlidges. Before that the states had it wrong.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

But DC that argument can be used both ways. If it's going to have little to no effect on you and it allows that small minority that couldn't otherwise be there, to be in the woods what is the negative?

That may be the case but why hasn't it happened it the states where it is legal. I will answer that for you. Because bowhunters like me and you are going to do things the way we have been doing them for years. We don't want to use draw loacks so them being legal is going to make no difference to us because we don't want to use them anyway. I suspect the majoirty of bowhunters are going to do the same. So allowing someone else the oppurtunity to do that isn't going to make you or I any difference. In all of my years bowhunting I have know of one guy using a draw lock and that was so he wouldn't have to set out archery season after his back surgery. He could have bought a crossbow but it was cheaper for him to just buy a draw lock other than that the largest otdoor store in NE Arkansas bought one last summer for a guy that ordered it but never came to pick it up and it's still just setting there and they haven't been able to sell it and we're in a bow only zone.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I knew you would bring that up;) The reason is due the fears noted in that same post

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

BOWFANATIC - I'm sorry I didn't answer to your stisfaction. How about this - we take surveys of AR, OH and GA archery hunters over the next 3 years. Lets say the results are 5% trad hunters, 70% compound hunters and 25% crossbow hunters, we'll divy up the archery season accordingly, allowing trad hunters to hunt the most, crossbows having the next longest archery season and compounders the fewest archery days.

Thoughts ?


Has seasons ever been shortened because of crossbows ??

Thats partly true. Its more like I see compounds are being a MORE advantageous wepaon, wll tricked out, high letoff, triggered released, better accuracy ........ allowing the crossbow would actually be allowing a little bit inferior weapon IMO. What would it hurt ? Thats the whole POINT to archery season - allowing primitive weapons, right ? Allowing challenging weapons that maximize the days a guy hunts and minimizes the chances he'll kill something. I just don't see allowing one without allowing the other. They are that similar IMO.


Crossbow bowhunters ARE archers. If you think they are not, then I don't think your compound is based on my shooting a recurve, right ?


MA Jay - more and more states are inching towards allowing them - even you must realize this. Theres a reason - the G&F see crossbows as adding hunters, adding revenue, maximizing the resources and all that comes with minimal impacts on archery season as proven in the states that allow crossbows.

More and more states will allow them. I promise.

Because about 8 weeks ago I played basketball and tore my shoulder up. I haven't shot much lately - because it hurts. I have an egg size lump on top my right shoulder - its still very inflamed. My Dad has chronic shoulder issues. As it stands, I might be able to practice enough with my recurve to hunt this fall. I might not. I might be able to shoot a compound - I might not. Because I live in AR, I can hunt with a crossbow if it comes to that. I'll be a minority in the woods, I won't have to get a handicap permit or nonsense like that - I can bowhunt, regardless of my shoulder pain.


I submit that when the compound was allowed, what you just said was what happened to the recurve/longbow. Back then, if you were archery you WERE recurve/longbow hunters. The compound was introduced, and the beginning of the end started. What you fear happened - except it was YOUR choice of bow, the compound, that ended what up til then had been recurve/longbow archery season.

Knowing this - knowing the compound effectively revolutionized archery and made recurves/longbows a rare sight in the woods - why are you against it happening again ? (like it really would) You fear it because its YOUR bow that will become extinct ? Again - you love the compound because its YOUR choice, but its already done to recurves what you fear crossbows will do to compounds. Isn't that ironic ?



It was mentioned what crossbows would bring to archery season. I ask - what do compounds bring ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Sorry, it is hard to keep up with this merathon thread.:D

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Help, Help, Ive fallin into this tread,,,,,,,, and I cant get up.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

No I own a small company and like all small business owners, I have no idea what a 40hr work week is.... 60 to 80 yeah but 40? I get a lot of work done between 10 pm and 3am

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

BigJ12 - did you respond to my inquiry on Matt Jones ?? I can't keep up either !

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Fears are understanable I am not saying that I don't understand your concerns because I do. But I can't help but point to the states where they have been legalized and my own perosnal experience when I say that I no evidence and or reason think that your fears would come to fruition. In my case I am always going to err on the side the I think will give all hunters the benefit of being in the woods and that will get the most hunters involved. Afterall, I we keep losing hunters at the rate we have been losing them there may not be a bowseason for us to argue about in the first place. The only way I know to prevent against that is by keeping our numbers strong and recruiting new members rather than turing them away. Allowing weapons that may be perceived as more efficient is only going to be a plus to the bowhunting community because right now the anti's don't see it as a viable weapon and that's why they are pressing the bowhunting issue in particular.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

No Data, at this point a compound is still a bow.... I don't think anyone would argue that. But, once it becomes a vertical xbow, you lose that....IMO when it has 99% letoff, a draw lock and a arm brace, it is not longer bowhunting.... it is vertical xbow hunting.....

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Be back in few hours, keep it real