hillbillyhunter1

I wasn't talking about banning crossbows, I was talking about permitting them in areas where there are currently restricted (which I'm against). To be banned, you have to have been previously allowed. I know you understand that concept Data

Cougar Mag

That lone statement has shown how credible your arguments are. If you spent so little time shooting your bow to get ready for deer season, you were doing a disservice to all bowhunters everywhere.

I find it funny you are for allowing crossbows into regular bowhunting season, but against crossbows being allowed in with firearms.

BigJ71

After reading all of the posts (took long enough)

I have a few questions and a couple of statement of my own.

1st in regards to "is a crossbow a bow or a gun?" While it does share components of both, I would have to say it would be more a bow than a gun simply due to how the projectile is launched. After all it is called a crossBOW and not a crossGUN right. I know some of you all hate them but they are bows sorry. They have been around before anyone even knew what a gun was. So how can you classify it as a gun?

2nd, if it's more gun than bow as some of you think, why is it that the states that do allow them (either by the mainstream or for handicapped) allow them during the archery season? if it's a gun then why not let the handicapped just use a rifle during the archery season to kill there deer?

I have no problem cross bows. If anything I encourage them because if it brings new people into hunting then we ALL benefit. How can bringing people into hunting that otherwise would not, be bad? And this "it's ok as long as you don't hunt when I do" is the right attitude to have? Thats just elitist crap!

I am a HUNTER and I will use any form or weapon that is legal for me to use. This "bow elitism" has to stop or it will be the downfall of the sport. There is a lot of people out there who want to put an end to bow hunting all together and this "in fighting" makes it easier for them to do it.

Why in the hell would you NOT want a crossbow hunter in the woods the same time as you? is he going to kill more deer than if he had a compound or recurve....no.

How exactly does this effect you? And don't give me this "yahoo in the woods who just bought his crossbow yesterday" crap either because I have seen with my own eyes and heard PLENTY of stories of bow hunters, gun hunters, muzzleloader hunters and the like that fall into the same category, your going to find those people no matter what the type of weapon. Maybe some of you BOW ELITIST should try different forms of hunting before passing judgement on crossbows.

Some of you need to relax!! If you want to just shoot a bow then do it and don't worry if the guy across the county is using a crossbow. When I gun hunt here in Illinois I could give a rats ass if the guy in the next county is using a pistol or a muzzleloader all of which are legal to use during the slug gun season. I'm just glad they are in the wood hunting and so should you!

datamax

Why ? I can take YOUR compound and shoot it very well in 10 minutes. Why is that a disservice ? They're DESIGNED to shoot with easy Cougar, thats what compounds ARE. If I can pick up your compound and have 3-4" groups within 10 minutes ....... thats not good shooting ? That klind of shooting would be, what, 280's on a 3D course or something like that ? And don't forget, I took one shot, a heart shot a very nice non-typical 3 days after practicing with the Q2 after a 3 year hiatus. Can't argue with the results, can we ?


They ARE legal in firearms season. See, in AR, you can shoot archery in rifle season following rifle rules (orange , bag limits etc ) I know some states you cannot. However, I'm quite sure crossbows are legal in most firearms season anyway in most states, aren't they ? I'm not arguing that at all.

Exactly.

Exactlier

They will say that it DOESN'T, however kids and women in AR who use crossbows wouldn't be bowhunting if it wasn't for them. Plus, rifle hunters joining the ranks of bowhunters by shooting a crossbow STILL counts as a bowhutner. Take a million rifle hunters and let them buy crossbows and they add to the ranks of bowhunters even if they still rifle hunt primarily.

On elitism ......... it can be a good thing in a way. Let me explain. Modern Muzzleloaders have gone too far IMO. I use one - however I think they are 1 shot rifles more than they are muzzleloaders. People don't even have to know to measure power now with pyrodex pellets, quick loading and that funky new Knight ........ its gone too far. They're still technically muzzleloaders - but every year less and less. We've "lost" what muzzleloading is/was. Its become easier - but that doesn't mean better. The tradition of muzzleloading, the old flintlocks and caplocks of old ........ and the skills needed to shoot open sights with a 12 pound barrel .......... its being lost. Elitism is traditionalism. Elitism is not just "our way is better" its more like "the traditional way should stay intact"

Can you see what I'm saying ?

MA Jay

What I don't get is that Datamax and others readily admit that Muzzleloaders and Rifles are different but share many similar qualities, and as the technology gets more similar their effectiveness is getting close to equal.

Now that same thing is applicable to Crossbows and Archery equipment. There are definitely some similarities to them, while there are also some major differences. Archery and archery equipment are very well defined, and they do not include crossbows. That doesn't mean a state hasn't allowed crossbow hunters to hunt during archery season.. that doesn't make them archery equipment, just like hunting with a bow during a rifle season doesn't make a bow a rifle.

Now what I don't get, is that almost every state has a Muzzleloader Season and a Rifle/Shotgun Season along with an Archery Season. If Muzzleloaders and Rifles/Shotguns are seperated, why "blend" Archery and crossbow hunting? A crossbow is as different from a bow as a muzzloader is from a rifle and shotgun. In fact here in the East, Muzzleloaders have some significant advantages over shotguns in terms of range where rifles aren't allowed, just as some highly profecient compound bow archers have range advantages over casual crossbow hunters.

Just because a state allows a crossbow user to hunt during archery season, doesn't make it "archery". In the neighboring state of Massachusetts, 2 guys can get married .. but in 49 other states they aren't married .. just gay.

datamax

Well, the difference is, your muzzleloaders are comparable to rifle as compounds/crossbows are to recurves/longbows. Technically the crossbow/compound is still a bow, and a muzzleloader is still a rifle, however technology has come so far that the lines are blurred, aren't they ?

Why yes, there IS a clear definition to what IS a bow and what isn't. Every state to my knowledge recognizes a crossbow as legal archery weapons. Some restrict its use only due to physical limitations (handicap permits) but still they recognize it as legal archery equipment. Some state say anyone can use them. Wait, I thought you and I agreed they are well defined ?

Well, why were compound "allowed in" back when ? Why wasn't your argument valid then ? All I'm saying is, apply your anti-crossbow argument to compounds and in the end, you'll come to realize that IF compounds are archery equipment, surely too must crossbows be.

Hmmmmmm. Actually, if the married boys go to another state that state must recognize the marriage, even though its not legal in their state if I'm not mistaken. But what you are suggesting is that a crossbow is a bow in Arkansas, and when it goes across the state line to Kansas, it magically transforms into a gun ? Or it magically changes into something else ? No, c'mon, no one believes that. Its still a bow. It might be legal only for handicap people, but its recognized as a bow.

Double Creek

I can't believe this is still going[:'(]

silentassassin

By the same token you can’t paint all kinds or all scenarios with one broad stroke of the brush. If you think you can then you are criminally st…………….naive. Different kids mature at different ages and some have experienced a great deal more at an early age than others have that may have readied them for such an experience. Myself as well as most of my friends starting tagging along consistently with our fathers when we were no more than three years old. By the time I was 7 I killed my first limit of teal with a shotgun. I was a big kid and I was far far ahead of the other children in my close both physically and mentally. I spent most of my time with the adults and that’s where I wanted to spend my time. My dad and his friends hunted hard and looked up to them and wanted to be like them and I spent most of my time trying to be like them from the time I was very little. As soon as I was big enough my father quit shooting but we still hunted just as much as before. The difference was that now he spent all of his time working with me on safety and ethics and coaching my shooting. Different kids develop at different ages and first of all you aren’t qualified to decide an age at which all children are prepared to hunt and second of all it’s not your place to.

You are forgetting about one of the most important factors in that phenonmenon. That is the deer population explosion of the last 20 years. It's not a result of the advances in equipmenbt it's a result of the fact that there is a deer behind every other tree in all most every part of the country. Obviously, there are a few exceptions and I am sure that attitude is not as prevelant in those areas. For the rest of us, it's much easier to kill deer these days than it was 20 years ago simply because there are so many more of them.

I worked in a shop long enough to see some guys that could come in having never shot before and just had amazingly repeatable form. I set a guy up one night that was shooting for the first time ever (2 days before season). I am telling him it's tough shooting a bow and you won't be ready to hunt in 2 days yadda yadda yadda and this guy shoots about 20 minutes and gets 3 robinhoods at 20 yards and is consistently shooting quarter size groups. Now he was the best I eve saw out of the gate but I have seen SEVERAL people get setup and be shooting very impressively in a matter of minutes.

silentassassin

Sure you can. Allowing crossbow will pro0bably not offset the declining numbers but I can guarantee you that it won't if you don't try. With the numbers that we are lossing we should be making every REASONABLE effort to bring as many into the sport as possible. That being said you can always make an outrageous comparison like hand grenades to make the argument sound unreasonalbe but in actuality there much less difference and in many other places the cross is accepted as archery tackle. Which makes your grenade argument moot. The fact is that intolerance and greed are hurting our sport and driving people out and it's going to continue to do so. Why do you guys begrude a 10 year old kid the oppurtunity to get in the woods? For the life or me I will never understand that. It would hurt you in the least. It wouldn't even effect you yet you feel the right to define how eveyone else should be allowed to hunt.[:'(]

Also, I have no problem with a crossbow only season but I think that time should come directly from the time that is currently alloted to the archery season. Would you guys agree?

Double Creek

Datamax, tell me xbows don't lead to more evils against bow season!!!!!!!




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