silentassassin

Here are the numbers for Arkansas for the 02/03 season and the 03/04 seasons respectivel. AR started allowing crossbows in the 70's.

Button
Method Bucks Does Total Bucks ButtonBucks Does Total
Archery 2,816 4,118 6,934 2,726 533 2,973 6,232
Crossbow 1,245 1,570 2,815 1,209 366 1,371 2,946

Double Creek

I don't want to take the chance that my state will end up like Ohio!

Arthur P

LIfe is so unfair! EVERYONE should all be able to carry a machine onto the field to throw balls and make a few million dollars a year as an NFL quarterback. Those elitist football players with natural abilities, who work their tails off to improve those abilities, need to be chopped down to size.

You know, when I started shooting a bow I was a whopping 3 years old. I was hunting rabbits and squirrels with my bow when I was 6. It doesn't take a buttload of draw weight to kill small game. Practically any kid can handle a small game bow. Besides, small game gives a lot of action and the likelihood of making many shots in a day's time. That's the kind of thing kids love. Sitting on a treestand for hours at a time without so much as a glimpse of a deer when they're cold, tired, bored and hungry is a sure way to send the vast majority of kids right back to the Nintendo. The memory of that experience will keep many of them from ever trying it again.

A parent that is truly interested in getting his child into bowhunting should take the kiddo rabbit hunting instead of putting him/her up in a treestand. Peak his interest there and let the child grow into big game hunting as he or she matures - physically to the point where the child can handle a big game bow and mentally to the point where he/she is learning patience and concentration.

As a club officer over the past 20 years, spending many hours at the range, I've seen a great many kids turned off archery by overzealous parents. They set them up with the 'best' equipment they can buy, compound, sights, release, tricked out rest, carbon arrows... and then harp on them because their form isn't exactly 'right' or their concentration wanders and they shoot one of those expensive arrows off into the bushes. On the other hand, I've started a lot of kids out by handing them a bow I whittled out of a tree limb, a few wooden arrows, taught them the safety rules and basics of shooting, and then pretty much stand back and watch them shoot. I'm there to help them if they need it and to make sure they stay safe. Kids absolutely LOVE shooting at balloons. The look on their faces and the laughing leave no doubt they are enjoying themselves immensely.

When kids enjoy doing something, they will keep doing it. If they get bored or discouraged, then you can't force them to pick up a bow, ever again.

As far as the stuff about women not being able to draw a hunting bow and 'needing' a crossbow to hunt with, well... Say that to my wife and she'll slap the snot outta your sexist self.

datamax and I see the high tech compound exactly same way. I don't like the direction modern tackle has taken any more than he does. As far as I'm concerned, the technology could have - and probably should have - stopped dead in it's tracks in 1988. His defeatist point of view is, if we don't ban the compound, we might as well allow crossbows. While I might sympathize with the mindset, I realize that quite a few bowhunters are turning away from the compound because it has gotten too easy, even boring. As a result, we have a rapidly growing number of traditional and primitive bowhunters. So, I still have some level of optimism left. There is a growing backlash against all this technology that dm refuses to acknowledge.

datamax

Alabama needs more bowhunters if only 1500 members are a part of the organiation !

Ohio obviously has strong bowhunting numbers - with 25,000 + deer killed in archery season - which is a GOOD thing.

I wonder in Ohio ........ how many of those deer were killed with real bows ? You know, recurves/longbow ?

And how is that ?

Ohio Hunters Set New Record
217,301 Deer Taken During the 2004-2005 Season

Ohio
91 non-typicals all-time
179 typicals all-time
52 – scoring 200 or better B&C


Yeah, I'd hate to have those numbers too ! NOT


Well, thats not really any analogy at all, but I'll work with you. Steroids. Its what made average ball players excellent ones. Not unlike making an average hunter an excellent one.

Comparison ? Chuck Adams (and I love the man) he aint no Howard Hill. Take away Chucks compound and he'd suffer while Howard Hill truly was a great hunter/archer. Compounds are archery steroids, aren't they ? Quick and easy way to achieve excellence. And the crossbow ? Just another steroid, isn't it ?

Aint that the truth ! I remember being better at flushing rabbits than those hard heade4d beagles we had as kids. I loved those days ............ I wish I'd have had a recurve as a kid.

Watch it, thats anti-compound sentiment and we don't want to be truthful here, you know ?

And that Arthur P is where we differ and literally about the only thing we differ on. IF compounders are putting them down in favor of recurves, then do 2 things - either allow them the choice of putting down the crossbow in favor of the recurve, or mandate it by outlawing compounds. You cannot say "this steroid we'll allow, but this one we wont" based soley on one having a blue label and one having a red one. A steroid is a steroid, they both are an easy means to achieve greatness without having to put in the time and effort. A compound and a crossbow is the same thing - both are here to make bowhunters better and at the same time EASIER.

Double Creek

Datamax, you skirted around the issue and you know it. Xbows can be detrimental to bowhunting as we know it as shown by the stats.

silentassassin

Yet the number of hunters in general is rapidly deminishing. The bad part is that when you guys get through weeding out the "undesirables" there isn't going to be anyone left to stand beside you and fight for "your" hunting rights. [:'(][&:] Someone else mentioned how issues like this devide hunters and I totally agree. But lets recap. I want to allow crossbow hunters and welcome them with open arms by showing a little understanding and flexibility. You guys want to keep them out and keep it seperate. So who is really having the devisive influence?

datamax

How ? Because more bowhunters chose crossbow in OH and killed more deer ? How's that bad ? In Arkansas it was just the opposite, people chose to NOT use crossbows. And when its all said and done, rifle hunters kill by far more deer. And whats it matter HOW the deer are killed, if the herd is healthy, numbers growing and quality increasing ?

And what does it matter ? Ohio has a booming deer herd, HUGE bucks ............ you said you didn't want your state to end up like Ohio. You don't want a booming deer herd ? You don't want HUGE bucks like the Beatty deer ? You don't want to be near the top of the record books as far as record entries ? No, you don't mean that at all, I know you dont. Yet the state of Ohio has had crossbow for how long and the state is EXCELLENT for whitetail deer hunting. You cannot argue that, in fact we'd all love it if our state was as good as Ohio for deer hunting with few exceptions.

So fact is, Ohio has NOT been affected by crossbows, has it ? And if it has, I'll be amazed you can produce anything showing it. Look at the numbers - they don't lie

Arthur P

Silentassassin, I don't know what the heck you're talking about. Why would I want slobs and other such undesireables standing with me to fight for my hunting rights? (As if a slob hunter is actually going to 'fight' anyway.) A person is judged by the company he keeps.

Or are you trying to tell me how I define 'undesireable'.

Issues like this do split bowhunters, for sure. But it's guys like you that insist on doing something wrong and keep trying to shove it down everyone else's throat that keep bringing it up, over and over and over again. YOU, and guys like you, are the ones that are causing the problem. It's the crossbow faction's plan, divide and conquer. That's why they keep hammering on the wedge to widen the split and that's why I give them exactly the amount of respect they deserve. NONE.

ARGUY

The thing that remains is people are going to use whatever method they choose whether it be, shotgun, crossbow, compound, recurve,traditional, muzzloader, or whatever. If they want to use it then let them, thats their choice in the land of the free and home of the brave. Everyone here has reasons why they should or shouldnt be introduced to whatever time frame of the season for that state's hunting season.I mean its like saying dont use a rifle with a scope because that would make it too easy, use open sights. Ive used a crossbow and the only difference is the way the arrow or bolt is released. Its archery and everyone knows its archery, its just people are finding ways to down or insult someone else's choice of equipment because its a new choice. Was there this big of stink when compound were introduced when everyone was using traditional? I dont see how people can say they are invading the bow season. If people dont want them using crossbows on their land, then be a D$% about it and tell them they cant hunt on your land anymore. If they are own their own property and using one then who cares. If they come on your property with one and arent invited and making noise then run them off. But cursing the crossbow isnt the answer. And yes i have a crossbow but i like using my compound more. Im not biased to either one of the different archery weapons, I just shoot whichever one i feel like picking up that day and like having a choice. In alabama our bow season runs from Oct 15 to Nov 15 i believe if i can ge a fellow alabamaian to back that up. I seen 3 crossbows, 3 D%^& crossbows and all the stink that was caused in our state about it and thats all i seen. From the way it was broadcasted in my state, i was thinking there was a crossbow infantry unit marching through the woods and shooting every deer in sight. I mean this is ridiculous. Lets just stop adding fuel to the fire and let people do what they want as long us they are being ethical. And yes everyone wont be ethical about it. You give some people a inch they take a mile, thats like everything else. But insulting each other and lashing back with i read this and that , that just gets everyone pissed off. What should have been done, was lets the hunters of wherever the crossbow was being introduced vote on it, if it passed it passed and then there would be no arguments. None of well if you asked so and so # of hunters what they thought about it, should have been a vote i think tho i could be wrong. But anyways

BOWFANATIC

That right there is what this whole thread boils down to. It was ONCE AGAIN your reason for starting this thread!! To put down compounds every chance you get by going the round about way!
I'm surprised how many compound shooters have jumped in line behind you.
Maybe they haven't weeded through the entire thread enough to understand your true motive.

Since you seem to just love asking the "lets ban" question how about this? Since harvest quotas going up and up are a "good thing" , why not just ban recurves and longbows since they play such a small role in deer harvest numbers? Then we'll allow x-bows in archery season along with compounds and whatever new arrow projectile device is invented as long as it keeps the harvest numbers rising.