buckeye

Bowfanatic

If it were dire circumstances and it absolutely had to be done I would.

Other than that no debate or discussion will ever persuade me to shoot immature animals.

Thats just me.

atlasman

When did I say that??

I don't think a buck is easier to kill then a doe or fawn.........you do.

In my experiences does can be very crafty.......if they were not handicapped by having to care for their little ones they would move around a lot less once it hits the fan every fall.

No matter how you slice it a 1 1/2 yr old deer is gonna be more aware then a fawn........they've seen it before. The fawns have no clue.


If that is your opinion that's fine.......I think you are over looking all the mistakes a doe is FORCED to make simply because she can't lay low all day because she has little ones to care for........and I don't see how you think a 6 month old is harder to hunt then a 1 1/2 year old buck.


That wasn't really the point of my whole post. I hope you saw that I was trying to show you that your opinion of a 1 1/2 yr old buck would most likely be different if you were hunting different land. Just because a 1 1/2 yr old buck seems easy to kill on a low pressure farm doesn't translate to real life in most areas.

Like I said I have had several mature bucks in my yard that just stand there while I shoot my bow, swim in my pool or mow my lawn. If I were to come on this board and say that mature bucks are dumb and the easiest deer to hunt/kill I am sure you would object to that right??.............but it is true in MY YARD. What is true in my yard isn't really a good example to go by though.........similar to your farms.

IL-Cornfed

........"no debate or discussion will ever persuade me to shoot immature animals."....

And it shouldn't brother! I TOTALLY agree and I have heard the same words uttered from the mouths of some of the biggest names in the whitetail world!

1 1/2 year old (yearling) bucks are without a doubt, THE most naive and easily killed deer in the entire herd!!! This is easily seen in the woods. As you have mentioned there are many factors that contribute to this! A yearling buck actually gets all hormonal and can be easily "blinded" by the rut. He also has fawn dispersment to deal with, meaning for the first time in his life he has to leave his home range, being driven away by his mother to prevent inbreeding. This means you have a naive uneducated yearling who has NO idea where he is or where he is going. This time he also does NOT have the protective maternal instinct of a mature Doe to keep an eye out for him either! This is CLEARLY demonstrated in severe lopsidded harvest ratios! Most states harvest stats are compromised of 60 to 80% YEARLING bucks! WHY? It's certainly not because most of these hunters are waiting for a buck, it's simply because it's the dummies that show up first.... the yearling bucks! In fact, I beleive this can also be proved in several of the Earn a buck hunts like some conducted on special areas in IL. The average hunter simply CAN'T fill his Doe tags because they are MORE difficult to tag then a yearling buck. Again, I will stree that they are easier to kill than fawns bacause a fawn has a mature Doe looking out for it! It's always amazing to me that so many folks want to try sooo hard to convince themselves that a yearling buck is something that they can be proud of instead of emabarrassed about? It's still a macho thing for many guys to sit around with their buddies and be able to say " I got MY buck this year".... whatever! [:@] We just really need some folks to get involved in a quality deer manage plan and start doing their part. I say IF you shoot a yearling buck for ANY reason then you had better be a KID or a first time hunter! There is simply no other excuse. You wanna brag to our friends about killing a deer, try taking on a Mature Doe! Master that and it's Mature trophy class bucks after that. I always thought it was just a natural progression as WE mature as sportsman?? For some, they are stuck back in time, the ol' timers, exactly the reason WHY our herds are so out of whack in the first place. In the end, all this crap is exactly like catch & release was years ago. We all just have to keep repeating to everybody who will listen and to some who act to thick headed to want to listen that this IS the only way to be for the better of the sport, the herd, and overall thoughts and opinions to the general non-hnting public! Don't let these guys try to drag ya down bud, there way of thing is way outdated! Good luck and good shootin'

buckeye

Talk about laying it on the table!

BAM!

BOWFANATIC

Then dont preach QDM to anyone if you wouldn't go the opposite direction and take out young bucks if the cycle was reversed like the 2nd scenario I gave.

Wrong! The nub buck is the easiest deer to kill in the woods.

Really? My freezer is full of doe and I consider myself "the average hunter".

Is it a "macho thing" for you to proclaim that you only shoot big bucks and anyone who shoots anything less should be ashamed? That has to be one of the most hypocritical statements I've read here in a long time!

Why? For the "health of the heard? Or to make it easier for you to obtain your trophy?

Oh lets see , how about nice tasty venison on the table , remember..the reason man started hunting to begin with!

What about those who dont brag to anyone about shooting a young buck? They just do their own personal business and dont tell anyone else how to hunt!

Or it could be that our herds were alot smaller years ago so our DNR's spent many years issueing very few doe permits in order to grow the herd. Guess what , it worked.

Please explain how trophy hunting is "the only way to be for the better of the sport , the herd , and overall thoughts and opinions to the general non-hunting public"???

atlasman

Oh gee........because you heard it on a TV show or at some seminar you paid for a seat in then it MUST be gospel

Any person on this board could accomplish the exact same things as the "Biggest names in the whitetail world" do if we had the same amount of money, time and resources at our disposal.


I have been hunting for 17+ years.........if it was EASILY seen in the woods I think I would have seen it by now There is no way a 1 1/2 yr old buck is easier to kill then a fawn or even a 1 1/2 yr old doe.


So what??........that is the demise of 90+% of bucks during bow season. You are either gonna kill one looking for food or looking for love. More mature bucks get killed during the rut then any other time so obviously being "blinded" by the rut isn't something they grow out of.

BINGO......you just tipped your hand. You obviously view the hunting world through the rosey glasses of private land, honey hole, sweet spot, low pressure dreamland. Sorry to tell you but that is not how things work on heavily hunted public lands. A large number of deer lose their mother to hunters and are left to get by on their own.........IF they didn't get killed also. Not only that but a mature doe certainly has her little one's survival at the top of her list but if danger pops up she is GONE......if they follow and make it fine......if they don't then that's life. Many deer get seperated from mom when the lead starts flying and they run opposite ways. Maybe they get back together maybe they don't. Ever see a fawn standing around not knowing what to do when it's mom gets dropped by a shot or runs away so fast that the fawn doesn't really know what happened?? Your views may hold true in the woods you hunt but you are being very myopic if you think it is the same for everyone else.


Do you have a link to those stats?

Embarrassed??........you've got to be kidding. The only one embarrassed should be you for typing that.

I killed a nice mature buck last year and hardly saw anything else..........the year before I killed two 1 1/2 yr old bucks and a mature doe. This year I killed two 1 1/2 yr old bucks, a mature doe and 6 month old doe. I will take the 2 years sandwiching the big buck any day of the week given the choice. I killed a nice buck.......it was fun, had some laughs and took some pics......cost me $460 and he is on my wall and that's about it. It was a good time but not really much different then every other deer I kill. I just don't get the facination with antlers. If you love them so much why not just hunt for sheds??


Yea I know what you mean.............no one ever sees macho behavior from the "mature buck only" crowd


Only if they follow YOUR definition of "quality" right??


I am not a kid or a first time hunter and I have killed 4 of them in the last 3 years..........and I don't owe anyone an excuse or explanation for anything I do legally.


Killed a couple of them also........and one of their daughters


Been there........done it. Didn't excite me any where near enough to even think about changing the way I enjoy hunting.


I'll tell you why our herds are out of whack...........because hunters don't kill enough does!!! They are all obsessed with something that has antlers.......no matter how big or small. I have seen grown men reduced to stammering morons because they saw and missed a buck..........why?? The sheer fact that "buck fever" even exists is laughable. A mature doe is the same animal as a mature buck but one is not even looked at by most and the other creates an obsession that people spend their lives chasing..........all because some extra bone on it's head........how dumb is that??

I will be hunting a local farm next year because the owner finally got fed up with the hunters he had let on his land.........you see there are tons of deer and it's a big problem for him so he lets people come to thin the numbers..........but they are big macho buck hunters who only want to put their name in a book so they can show their friends and PROVE what a great hunter they are........so no one is killing the does. The farm is getting hammered with damage and numbers are out of control.

Killing 1 1/2 yr old bucks won't destroy your herd...........letting all the does walk will......and you have all your "trophy" hunting buddies to thank for that.

They have antler restrictions in PA now and from what I hear the hunting was the pits this year..........doesn't really support your theory.


You actually think the non-hunting public gives a damn if you shoot a 4 pointer or a mature 12 pointer??