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Don't shoot dogs!!!

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Don't shoot dogs!!!

Old 09-17-2004, 09:51 AM
  #41  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Alexandria La. USA
Posts: 124
Default RE: Don't shoot dogs!!!

ORIGINAL: KimberRuger

I was brought up to believe that most "pets" would run themselves to death trying to catch a deer, which always seemed sensible to me - a pet dog doesn't run anywhere near as fast as a deer and a dog doesn't have the stamina a deer has.

A pack of dogs is a different story - they can "corner" a deer, surround it, etc. But a single dog seems hard pressed to keep up with a deer, let alone "run it down".

Have I been thinking wrong all these years ? Can ONE dog really chase down a healthy deer on its own ?
Assuming one can, is it really relevant? I mean, is the decision to kill a person's pet dependant upon the possibility that it might kill a deer? I know I can kill a deer. I hope I would not get shot if found on your property.
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Old 09-17-2004, 10:48 AM
  #42  
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the Great Plains
Posts: 351
Default RE: Don't shoot dogs!!!

ORIGINAL: KimberRuger

Can ONE dog really chase down a healthy deer on its own ?

PMantle said it...it's not really relevant, however, they most likely could never catch a deer. Not a pet, most pets lay around all day and could never just see a deer or smell one and catch it...a strong, woodswise hunting dog up with one, but never would catch one on the run. Plus, hunting dogs aren't usually chasing deer unless they're young.
As far as it not being someone's responsibility like someone said to catch and return a dog...well it's not your responsibility to shoot the dog either, most would get bored and go home soon anyway. Whoever it was that shot a collered beagle...you've got to be kiddin. He'd never have caught that doe. Plus you said the doe had be run a long ways...sounds to me as if the dog ran a deer onto your property from somewhere else, doesn't sound like a problem to me. Focus your efforts on coyotes, which really know how to catch and kill deer. A domestic dog is little threat to the deer hurd.
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Old 09-17-2004, 10:50 AM
  #43  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: West Central Illinois
Posts: 863
Default RE: Don't shoot dogs!!!

When I stepped out she ran off and whenin a few seconds here came a beagle so when it got to where the deer had been standing I let the Ruger bark. That dog had a collar but was turned loose.
did you kill the dog or injure the dog or just scare it off?
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Old 09-17-2004, 11:05 AM
  #44  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 120
Default RE: Don't shoot dogs!!!

ORIGINAL: PMantle

ORIGINAL: hornbow

ORIGINAL: PMantle

This is the most shocking thread I have ever read on a hunting forum. That any hunter would shoot a dog because if wandered on his land or chased a deer is beyond my comprehension. Of course, many feral dogs are likely better off put down anyway, but you guys would shoot someone's pet?
It is beyond your comprehension because you live in the south where there is no deep snow and perhaps running deer with dogs is legal. In Maine, it is not legal to run deer with dogs and in the deep snow, a Chijuajua can bring down a deer. The deer's hooves cut through the snow and it flounders while a dog can run on top of the snow (especially if there is a crust). They will eat at the hamstrings until the deer can't run and then they will simply eat it alive. Additionally, as I said, there is a leash law in Maine. Your "pet" must be on a leash at all times. There is no legal justification for allowing your dog to roam the woods. If your dog gets shot in the woods, odds are it is your fault for not obeying the law in the first place.

Shooting dogs in the woods of northern and central Maine is not only tolerated; it is advocated. There is a bounty on yotes too. If everyone just let their dogs chase deer, the effects on the deer population would be catastrophic. That is the reason people shoot free roaming dogs. And no, it doesn't matter if it has a collar or not. Keep your pet on the leash as is the law and it won't get shot.

So, if I understand what you are saying, it is fine to kill someone's pet, thereby destroying his property because of the potential that the dog might act on his preditory instincts and kill a deer that belongs to no one other than the State(unless you damage your car on one)?

Leash law? Violation of the leash law justifies killing a dog? Man, this is one eye opening thread.
Just trying to explain the reasons for the rule up there. I didn't make the rules; I just abide by them. I don't think you understand the scope of the problem in high snow country and you obviously have never found a dead deer ( or worse, one still alive) after a dog has been at it. Dogs kill deer all the time up there. It isn't that they "might act on their predatory instincts". They DO and often.

If an owner doesn't value his "property", as you put it, enough to keep it on a leash, when that rule is well known and well adhered to then why should I. I own dogs and have all my life. If I let one roam in the woods up there, odds are it wouldn't last a week because someone would shoot it. Guess what; I never let my dogs roam and I never lost one yet. It's a simple concept really; obey the law and you don't have to worry about it.
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Old 09-17-2004, 11:17 AM
  #45  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 120
Default RE: Don't shoot dogs!!!

ORIGINAL: SWOSUMike

ORIGINAL: KimberRuger

Can ONE dog really chase down a healthy deer on its own ?

PMantle said it...it's not really relevant, however, they most likely could never catch a deer. Not a pet, most pets lay around all day and could never just see a deer or smell one and catch it...a strong, woodswise hunting dog up with one, but never would catch one on the run. Plus, hunting dogs aren't usually chasing deer unless they're young.
As far as it not being someone's responsibility like someone said to catch and return a dog...well it's not your responsibility to shoot the dog either, most would get bored and go home soon anyway. Whoever it was that shot a collered beagle...you've got to be kiddin. He'd never have caught that doe. Plus you said the doe had be run a long ways...sounds to me as if the dog ran a deer onto your property from somewhere else, doesn't sound like a problem to me. Focus your efforts on coyotes, which really know how to catch and kill deer. A domestic dog is little threat to the deer hurd.
With all due respect, you are wrong on that one. Deer are fast but they are not long distance runners. A dog can literally run a deer to death! They don't have to be faster (and they aren't). They just have to have more stamina (and they do). Hell, I have caught up to deer before that I was trailing by just going along at a steady jog. Sooner or later, the deer will get caught looking back at you and will present you with a shot oportunity (with a rifle anyway). Dogs will chase the deer until the deer just can't run fast enough to keep away anymore. Then they will hamstring it and it is all over. In deep snow, the deer have even less of a chance. Floundering through snow up to their shoulders really takes it out of them quickly and many dogs (especially smaller breeds) can run on top of the snow and catch them pretty fast.
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Old 09-17-2004, 12:28 PM
  #46  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Alexandria La. USA
Posts: 124
Default RE: Don't shoot dogs!!!

hornbow, what "rule" are you refering to? Is this a statute or just what is done by people? BTW, and not that you care, but I consider this rule quite possibly the most barbaric thing I have ever heard of in American hunting culture.
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Old 09-17-2004, 02:09 PM
  #47  
Fork Horn
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: IN USA
Posts: 113
Default RE: Don't shoot dogs!!!

I dont like the way you say that....My and my borther hada beagle that we were training for rabbits, and we jumped a deer, and this was during deer season, since the pup didnt know what he was doing he chased the deer...we saw the pup leave our sight and heard a gun go off... some hunter had shot our puppy, luckily he was using buckshot which btw was illegal for deer in Indiana, and the pup got hurt, but still lived... whenwe caught up and saw the guy about to pop my puppy in the head I stabbed the guy in the leg with my knife as my brother knocked his lights out, my brother ran back to our house with dog in hand and called 911 and had my dad take our dog to the vet.. when the cops arrived in the woods I had the guy down with his own gun aimed at him..Long story short he wasnt allowed to purchase another firearm in the state of Indiana, got a $500 dollar fine for shootign my dog, and 5 months in jail for using the buckshot.. so think before ya shoot, because sometimes it might be a young kid trying to train his dog for something else..
ORIGINAL: gutshot

Sorry guys I know that I'm going to catch a lot of flack for this but if I catch a dog chasing deer through my neck of the woods I'll down it in a heart beat. I have no problem with squirrel dogs, bird dogs, rabbit dogs or any other hunting dog but in WV it's illegal to run deer with a dog so shame on thier butt if they are chasing deer around me.
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Old 09-17-2004, 03:11 PM
  #48  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 120
Default RE: Don't shoot dogs!!!

ORIGINAL: PMantle

hornbow, what "rule" are you refering to? Is this a statute or just what is done by people? BTW, and not that you care, but I consider this rule quite possibly the most barbaric thing I have ever heard of in American hunting culture.
I was refering to the rule that that game warden told my stepfather and I which was to shoot any free roaming dogs as that was considered prima facia evidence it was chasing deer. I was 11 at the time and just took it for granted. I never actually tried to go and look up to see if that was an official stance of the state of Maine. I just assumed it was since it was an officer of the state that told us to do it.

Now, I have never shot a dog in the woods and don't really know if I could unless I caught it actually at the carcass or pulling down a deer but that was what the game warden told us. That was 25 years ago now so maybe things have changed but I don't really think so. I do go back nearly every year to hunt and visit with family etc. and the mentality is still the same. Like you said, southern Maine is a little different (the rest of us actually consider Portland to be part of NH, LOL). Go up north to Caribou or Greenville and ask a random sampling of people what they would do if they saw a dog running around in the woods when they were hunting and I will lay money that 90% plus of them will tell you they would shoot it.
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Old 09-17-2004, 03:29 PM
  #49  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 120
Default RE: Don't shoot dogs!!!

ORIGINAL: Koontzy

I dont like the way you say that....My and my borther hada beagle that we were training for rabbits, and we jumped a deer, and this was during deer season, since the pup didnt know what he was doing he chased the deer...we saw the pup leave our sight and heard a gun go off... some hunter had shot our puppy, luckily he was using buckshot which btw was illegal for deer in Indiana, and the pup got hurt, but still lived... whenwe caught up and saw the guy about to pop my puppy in the head I stabbed the guy in the leg with my knife as my brother knocked his lights out, my brother ran back to our house with dog in hand and called 911 and had my dad take our dog to the vet.. when the cops arrived in the woods I had the guy down with his own gun aimed at him..Long story short he wasnt allowed to purchase another firearm in the state of Indiana, got a $500 dollar fine for shootign my dog, and 5 months in jail for using the buckshot.. so think before ya shoot, because sometimes it might be a young kid trying to train his dog for something else..
ORIGINAL: gutshot

Sorry guys I know that I'm going to catch a lot of flack for this but if I catch a dog chasing deer through my neck of the woods I'll down it in a heart beat. I have no problem with squirrel dogs, bird dogs, rabbit dogs or any other hunting dog but in WV it's illegal to run deer with a dog so shame on thier butt if they are chasing deer around me.
Glad your pup made it. Buckshot is illegal in Indiana?? I have never heard of that one before.

I guess it depends on the state in large part as to whether it is tolerated or not to shoot free roaming dogs in the woods. In many states, it is illegal and you will pay a large price if caught killing someone else's dog and in some states, it is not only tolerated, it is pretty much expected. I know for a fact that if what you describe had happened in Maine, the guy not only would not have gotten in trouble, you would probably have been arrested for assaulting him. Your pup was caught red-handed (red-pawed?) chasing a deer; not just roaming around innocently. That would have justified the other guy's shooting of him in the eyes of the law. It just depends on the state I guess.
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Old 09-17-2004, 05:29 PM
  #50  
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the Great Plains
Posts: 351
Default RE: Don't shoot dogs!!!

Law-permitting or not, it isn't always necesarry. Just becuase the law says it's permitted, that doesn't make it something good.
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