Atlasman,
Just because it' s not common or " natural" where you hunt doesn' t make it the rule for every other place in the country. I think many factors can influence the intensity and frequency of buck fights for any given area. By no means do I believe that buck fighting is common, however I wouldn' t go as far to say that it rarely happens. You may have 16 years of hunting experience, but you may as well have none if you believe that deer are simple, predictable creatures that can be generalized by ignorant statements.

-Rob

I`ve see sparing before and one morning after arriving at my stand 45 minutes before light I listened to a knock down drag out fight. The noise these bucks made sent chills up my spine. Right after legal shooting time I watched a good 8 pointer come from the direction of the fight and shortly after a big 10 pointer walked by with his ears back and hair up, he had that stiff legged walk that says I`m boss.

I' ve usually see a handful every year. My favorite though was 3 years ago, I was watching 2 small 8ptrs going at it pretty hard for about 10 minutes, then out came mr.big 12ptr, from over the hill. One look at the big 12ptr and the other 2 knew who were boss around the area and got out of there. I saw that big one 7 times that year, but never could get a clean shot at him with the bow.

I have been witness to a few over the years of the all out bar room bawl style , seen a number of almost fights(square offs, muscle flexing if you will) and countless sparring matches. I am not sure why it is, b/c know guys here who have never seen a fight either. Some those results can be pointed to the places they choose to hunt. I have never seen a fight in a field before and know many guys who sit field in the am and evening, as an example. However more to the point I do know they scrap and go at it hard here, even if i don' t witness even 1% of the fights that go on. Explain broken tines, locked up dead deer, injuries, bruising in the shoulder/hams and of course the need for our mature bucks to have necks as big (and in some cases bigger) than their shoulders. Well it easy to say a big boy always finds it easier to intimidate rather than actually fight, he must find another guy who either thinks he is or is as big as himself and is willing to dance for a date with the ladies. Maybe in areas where he just have to go to the next club, it ain' t quite the same, but mature bucks like heirooms they are not satisfied with one date they want them all...thus competition for those does is inevitable. results are you' ll have fights between the upper level bucks, them little guys just run and don' t mess with daddy. If you have only little ones they haven' t experienced the need to fight for superiority or domain rights. that maybe a clue to why some don' t see lots of indicators of fights happening, but I would still say somewhere and everywhere there are mature bucks who do thing they need to keep the title...trick is finding them heavyweights

Easy big fella.............funny how somehow you think I said deer are simple, predictable creatures when I have NEVER said those words or anything like that [:-]

My opinions are based on real experience so they are definately not ignorant.

I will point out how rude your remarks come off as.........don' t come at me personally just because you hunt differently.

Atlasman:

I will be the first to admit that a person does not always have to have " hands on" experience to use common sense to argue certain issues. However, regarding the issues of whether " rattling" is effective, and do bucks commonly spar or fight, there are a lot of variables that come into play that provide different degrees of knowledge and experience that a hunter-especially gun hunting vs. bowhunting, might have regarding both subjects.

Considering you used to hunt with a shotgun during limited gun seasons, you were not successful for the first several years, and that you that you just started bowhunting last season (first deer with bow), it is possible that your exposure to what bucks commonly do during the rut season, your all-around experience, and how effective " rattling" can be, might be limited in comparison to some bowhunters that are disagreeing with you.

It is not uncommon to find that deer hunters that strictly use a shotgun and muzzleloader -or once did, and live in states that have a much lesser gun season than a bow season, will not have the same experiences and knowledge of deer and deer actions as a longtime bowhunter will. Being bowhunting is a close contact sport, a bowhunter usually has a need to know and see more, a need to use certain equipment and tactics that a gun hunter does not, and has to spend more time in the field, to increase his or her odds of success.

In my 39-years of bowhunting in numerous types of terrain e.g., vast timber, scattered timber, open fields, segmented fields and timber, I have seen and/or heard bucks sparring/fighting many times. However, having failed to anticipate that one-day I would engage in a discussion concerning the issue, I never kept a record of the number of sightings and hearings.

I can only say that I have witnessed/heard such actions enough times, that 1) today I am never surprised when I do see bucks spar/fight, and 2) listening for the sound of rut induced actions of competing bucks is always part of my (audio) tracking when standing or still-hunting during the rut and pre-rut.

If you stay with bowhunting, and put a few more serious (bowhunting) years in the field, I believe your opinion on this subject and the " rattling" subject might change.