If you look at the speeds most xbows are close to compound bow speeds. There are a few top end models that push it out their but on average they are not that much different. Just because you see a xbow in a Bass Pro catalog thats 400 fps doesn't mean thats what most people shoot. Of the thousands of xbow hunters I doubt most use a 1200 dollar xbow. Most will buy the 400- 600 xbows and their speeds are not out of line with bows.

Do you really think this would calm down the anti xbow people? Not for a second. They just don't want them hunting in the woods with them. Thats it. They don't want to share their woods.

Start going to xbow forums and read what others say. These are just guys talking about hunting like they do on any bow hunting forum. You will see what challenges they have and that they are not some miracle deer killing machines. Do you really think they have a huge advantage over you and if so is that going to keep you from killing a deer that walks under your stand?

I can teach most any guy to shoot a compound bow in a day and they would be better than most traditional shooters. What I can't teach them in a day is woodsman ship and how to deer hunt....that takes time.

Your reading comprehension level is that of a 3rd grader. I am not saying that to be mean, just we have the proof in these posts. You tried to make the arguement that arrowgun hunters has no effect at all on my hunting, why should I care. I clearly laid out, that that is the same arguement that pro-gay marriage folks put out there. I didn't say arrowgun shooters were pro-gay marriage, but "YOU", are using the same arguement. Its rather comical how you and brad lantz use one arguement to suit your needs, and then say its invalid other places.

In my opinion and experience, they are. I am allowed to form an opinion without passing it thru you. We all are, you are too, but folks like you and bligblulls want to squelch us when they don't align with yours. See this is where you suffer on low integrity. Its doesn't make it a lie as you say, but its my experience and opinion.


Again, I have a right to post my thoughts on it. You can't change that. I realize you love to give folks advise, but you have no right to tell me or anyone on here how to think.

Again, same arguement the homo's use.

Says you. I have a vastly different experience with arrowgun shooters in my state.


Interesting, never been saddled with that one, at least not face to face.

It wasn't in this thread. You needed to feel like motherhen and give everyone advise. All thru this thread, you have been throwing out advise like candy. And I have yet to see anyone ask for your advise.

You mean like you shoving your advise on others, telling them to get an education, throwing out scripture to Bob and trying to align it to a arrowgun debate, giving false information on physics, and then trying to deny you said it, and then to top it off challenge others on paycheck matchup, and then backing off? Is this maturity level on par with a man like yourself?

The point is that the more states that open xbows to anyone,the more manufactures will spend in development as they have with the compound! And with higher end xbows at over 400fps you honestly think that with more demand they won't work at making them faster and cheaper?

IMO they do have advantages over a bow,I have seen them taken out of the box with scope aready installed and shoot 2" groups at 20yards.And they can then be hung up just like a rifle untill season opens.That don't happen with a bow!

And you stated they will help bring new hunters to the sport,well I too would like to see new comers enter the sport,the sport of bow hunting and how many people will pass on the bow for the xbow because its easier?
So IMO they will hurt BOWHUNTING!!

And I'm not sure about you but I can and have taught guys to shoot in a day,but none could consistently shoot 2" groups right off the bat!

You have to remember that the one thing any vertical bow CAN NOT overcome is the physical limitations of the shooter.Even with high let-offs we are not drawing any higher weight!
Where do the limitations of the xbow end??

My reading comprehension is wonderful. I see your attempt to devalue the others because they want something different than you. Just because they are different you call them names and belittle them. This is much like a racist would do. Lump a group together then say they are all alike.



[/quote] In my opinion and experience, they are. I am allowed to form an opinion without passing it thru you. We all are, you are too, but folks like you and bligblulls want to squelch us when they don't align with yours. See this is where you suffer on low integrity. Its doesn't make it a lie as you say, but its my experience and opinion. [/quote]

Your opinion is not based on facts. You do not hunt with a xbow and dismiss all others that have when they relate their experience. Just like a KKK members opinions are his doesn't mean they are founded in fact. Not saying you are a racist but you treat the xbow people the exact same way.




[/quote] Again, I have a right to post my thoughts on it. You can't change that. I realize you love to give folks advise, but you have no right to tell me or anyone on here how to think. [/quote]

Once again you have the right to tell me how you hate xbows but to tell me xbow hunters are scum and lazy is just a lie...to tell me they are things they are not is a lie not an opinion.


[/quote] Says you. I have a vastly different experience with arrowgun shooters in my state. [/quote]

You didn't even know they were legal to use in your own state along with the bow. You thought it was still proposed yet it had passed. I would think you would be up on it more. You have one or two bad experiences and you form the opinion they are all scum and lazy....thats realistic. I've had bad experieces with gun hunter and bow hunters and atv riders....doesn't mean they are all scum. You have good and bad in everyone. Lumping everyone together is stupid.

[/quote]
Interesting, never been saddled with that one, at least not face to face. [/quote]

I'm sure you are a super bad a$$ but I was talking about your view on the xbow hunter. Ignorance on a topic is often out of fear of change.

[/quote]
It wasn't in this thread. You needed to feel like motherhen and give everyone advise. All thru this thread, you have been throwing out advise like candy. And I have yet to see anyone ask for your advise. [/quote]

Only advice I give is to stop treating your fellow hunter as scum as you put it and treat people fairly.



[/quote] You mean like you shoving your advise on others, telling them to get an education, throwing out scripture to Bob and trying to align it to a arrowgun debate, giving false information on physics, and then trying to deny you said it, and then to top it off challenge others on paycheck matchup, and then backing off? Is this maturity level on par with a man like yourself?[/quote]

Again you grasp at straws...I only compared a story in the bible that mirrored his story. Never was any religious rant going on. No false information was given. I even printed other stories stating the same thing yet you dismiss everything that doesn't fit your opinion. You act like being an engineer was going to scare me and that I should just bow down .....I make a 6 figure income and I don't feel inferior to you because you have a title. Guys like you want to act like a guy driving a truck or working a lower paying job would be stupid and shouldn't even have the nerve to challenge your opinion. You kept telling me to go to all these schools when you know nothing about me...just trying to show you are somehow superior. I also know and work with many engineers and I can tell you not all of them are the sharpest tool in the drawer. Book smarts don't always relate to common sense. You prove the point all too well.

Speed is something that is over rated. Speed comes with it's own challenges / trouble. Harder to get quiet and harder to get good broad head flight.....but speed sells. I see guys that are worried about putting something on their bow that will cause them to lose 4 fps on their bow. The fastest bow on the planet is still close to 3 times slower than sound. So the long shots of a noisy xbow brings more challenges. Thats why most ( unlike what is told by some here) xbow shooters want a close shot. Most want a 20 yard shot and 40 yards is considered by most to be the ethical limit.


I will agree that they are easier to shoot out of the box. I also had a guy in the 1980 come borrow an old bow I had. He had never shot a bow ever. I gave him 3 arrows that he put in a sock and he went hunting that afternoon with only shooting it a few times at his house. He killed a doe that day. I know he wasn't good by any means but he did it. Can anyone get lucky...Yes. Would anyone do better with practice....Yes. That goes for the bow hunter or xbow hunter. Many people do not practice like they should so I'm glad the xbow is easier to shoot. That means less bad shots.

A friend of mine is a busy farmer. He bow hunted a little but never practiced. I went to his house once and we went hunting. He goes out and picked his bow off the nail in the barn and the sight nearly fell off. He tightened it up and was ready to go....He was not able to devote the time to a bow and shouldn't have even went. Now wouldn't it be better for him to have a xbow that is easier to grab and go? Although everyone should practice, some don't, and that goes for bow hunters and gun hunters.

No, it not, I know it stings to hear it, but you clearly have reading issues.


None of yours are on facts either, you didn't post the first fact, but kept telling everyone it was. Well, because you read them on the internet.

kinda like when you tried to play in the physics and ran and ran and ran. That was funny.

Once, again reading comprehension of a 3rd grader. Now, writing is an issue. Very sad.

Again, reading comprehension of a 3rd grader, I was told MD would gather the numbers for this year. You tried give out advise again, to tell me you would lay down. I explained clearly, I was not made that way. I wasn't a quiter like you. We went thru this whole thing about, is this the way you raise your kids. Your weak and a sad excuse if you teach your children this, lay down philosophy.

What is this, playtime in 3rd grade? Its stupid??? Thats freakin funny. Is it dumb too?

Its about tradition and doing something a bit harder than the rest. You want a society where everyone takes the easy way on everything. Might as well make it weapon of choice. Everyone's happy.

I am sure you go down the street giving advise to everyone.

Your the one that brought up how much you make. I just played along. It did show your maturity level.

Not in the least, total BS. I would never go and try to tell a truck driver how he should downshift on a 12% grade. Or how to work on his rig. I would never challenge you on making paper. But you would. You did. You run your chops non-stop, and your mouth gets you in trouble. You still wouldn't admit what you did on these forums. You talked out your butt about knowing physics, now cry us a river, that someone called you on your BS. And because your pride, you started advising others go back and get thier money back from colleges. So I called you on your blantant ignorace. You, yes you alone, brought up how much money you make and wanting to compare paychecks. Now, after its all done, you cry now. Grow a pair man. Quit acting like a wounded victim when you got yourself into this.

I know you don't know anything about static dynamics. But you got called out on here. And you ran. Your big mouth got you in this. And I did enjoy putting you in your place. I mean clearly, you can't be trusted to work the "quote" button correctly. Its a simple concept, but you could screw up anything.

Look BC....Once again, your arguments are to discredit me and others that disagree and nothing to do with the discussion. That's just your style....I get it. You play the victim. I could go back the 60 some pages and point out the names and the belittling but that's pointless.

1. The things is....you can not show that deer populations have suffered.

2. You can not show how your tradition has suffered or where you will have to change your style of hunting.

3. You can not show where seasons have been shortened.

4. You can not show where xbows have been a detriment to the sport.

You know why ? Because you can't.

And what are you trying to do so different on here?

I am never the victim, too many low hanging fruit, victims like you. Makes it easy for me. So are you attempting to say you never tried to belittle folks on here? Mr. 6 figure income? You would never catch me saying something like you said about comparing paychecks. That showed volumns about you and who you are.

Why would I need too? Why do I need to turn you around and convince you different? Whats in it for me? I mean I seriously doubt your going to come up here and go to the open floor forums like we did this year and defend the tradition and heritage we had.

Considering most states do not consider an arrowgun equal with a compound or traditional bow, doesn't seem like there are much statistics, to conclusively show one way or another. You got ohio, and a couple of years in PA, which has its boatload of other mgmt issues. I have my beliefs, I have my opinions and I am allowed to them. I am not a big fan of experimenting with deer mgmt like PA and Ohio, that have vastly different herd dynamics. One seems to be dying, another seems to be thriving. You of course cherry pick your data to conclude one thing or another to further your arguement.

Let me see... the very first reply to this you said this....I freakin dread the season this year with all these slobs.

It doesn't sound like you came here with an open mind wanting to just discuss the topic. You came in with guns blazen already lumping them all as slobs. If you want to come one here and rant and rave how unsafe and how they will decimate the deer and how tradition will suffer then you should at least back it up. Since you can't back it up then you say it's your "opinion". I can have an opinion the earth is flat but that doesn't mean it's true. You can have an opinion that venison taste better than beef. That can't be proven with fact.....thats opinion. If you don't want to show that the xbow is making things worse then you don't have a leg to stand on. Opinion doesn't cut it counselor. You can have the opinion that they are scum but that shows ignorance based on hate. You have no facts that back that up anything you say. Just ignorance. Not saying you are personally ignorant but that you argument is.

Ohio, Arkansas and Ontario have allowed crossbows during archery season for 30 years. Wyoming, British Columbia and the North West Territories came along ten years later. Indiana, Georgia, Alabama, Maryland, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina, Quebec, Florida, Virginia, Louisiana, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Michigan, North Carolina, New York, Texas....maybe a few more. ....I would think we have a pretty good idea how the xbow is doing and the fact that more state are expanding tells more. Also the Pittman-Robertson Federal Aid brings in money to the states that they need. The sale of xbows will help everyone.


I guess you blame the xbow on the Pennsylvania deer herd? If it's dying it has nothing to do with that. It's had horrible management for many years. It also has been improving lately because they are changing some of that. What facts have I cherry picked? At least I try and back things up with facts unlike you. Yours is just opinion and that is just your way around proving anything to me. Take the easy way out and hide behind your opinion. For a man of science you sure do hate facts.......

But you still haven't told me why I should prove anything to you. What is so special about you, that anyone on this page should prove anything too?

You also haven't posted any facts other than Ky deer kill. The only person to post any facts was a report from Indian Creek, MD that MOarcher put. And that was with what 5 arrowgun shooters.

You keep saying you know these facts. Well internet facts.

In fact, its a fact, that you have posted more BS on this thread than anyone. We can bring the up the physics facts you thought you knew. How could anyone trust you when you lie thru your teeth. Your a dishonest man. Littlechief, I don't think so. Brad, he has always has been less than dishonest, and he knows it. MOArcher never gave me a reason to doubt him. You? Not so much. You could sit here and say anything and your credibility is shot. You act like a 3rd grader, and want to post how much you make and want to compare paychecks. Honestly it wasn't fun just seeing you cry on here, you wouldn't be worth replying too. That is fact.

I don't come to this page on a mission to turn you, I come here for the entertainment of watching you spin.