Rage mechanicals
07-18-2009, 02:54 AM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 345
HAHAHA, I love it. Sounds like you've got quit the drive o go get them. Do you think maybe he can mail them out to ya. I love it. LOL
07-18-2009, 04:40 AM
#22
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 2,520
You can, and should, tune your bow with nothing more than your current arrows. You absolutely do not need to spend hours or money to do it, just a little time and effort. To say it takes money, elaborate equipment and huge amounts of time is either a weak excuse or ignorance.
I am constantly amazed at the number of "hunters" that don't care to know how their equipment works, how to take care of their equipment or know how to use it properly.
I am constantly amazed at the number of "hunters" that don't care to know how their equipment works, how to take care of their equipment or know how to use it properly.
07-18-2009, 03:17 PM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,084
The only "RAGE" your going to have is your temper. Well in my case that is what it was. I wounded two buck's one that would have made P&Y (well that is what I tell people) two years ago. I hit a rib and deflected under the skin towards the shoulder. I will say it left about a 8 inch cut. After hitting two buck's with the rage I wasn't happy. The other buck I hit in the shoulder and bent the blade to a perfect 90 degree's. I ended up shooting that buck during gun season. Any ways Im sticking with slick tricks.
07-18-2009, 06:02 PM
#24
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
- MUZZY 3's were consistantly low and left (3 shots) I tried my best to align BH with fletchings
- Rage 3 blade mechanicals were a 2 inch pattern wth tree arrows at my high left circle on my broadhead target. I switched to my FP's and had the same shot pattern on top right circle on target. Im sold, and am convinced that I will be shooting these this bowseason. I just dontthink there is another, more accurate mechanical BH out there, especially with the cutting diameter and penetration I was getting.
Last edited by Rob/PA Bowyer; 07-18-2009 at 06:04 PM.
07-18-2009, 09:24 PM
#25
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Horse Country, VA
Posts: 937
Rob,
I see this going in circles. I had my bow tuned by a respectable archery pro shop, new string, paper tuned at 5, 10, and 15 yards. Had some minor adjustments with my knocking point being slightly low, added d loop, etc.
I did the three different BH's after my tuning, and even adjusted my APEX 5 pin as much as I could tolerate with each fixed BH, with the results that I posted. I've heard both sides of the alignment of fletching and in some ways flight is a science and if the difference is that much betwen fletching and fixed blade its either going to spin more than needed, or "steer" the BH. I dont need someone to tell me that a 1 1/2" 3 blade BH will not tend to "steer" or if WAY out of alignment with fletching will spin more than anyone desires. I like the tucked blades of a mechanical, the cutting diameter, and thats my choice. Regardless of doing this, that , or the other to adequately make a fixed BH do the same. After a tuned bow, shooting these three BH's, there was WAY too much changing my pins on my sight. Sure, I could always aim 3 inches left and high if I want to hit my mark, but I just want to hunt...and im not into 3d tournamaents or archery tournaments, so the underlying factor is what kills when I put my pin on the vitals. 90% of everyone who shoots the rage praise the accuracy, the other 10% complain of deflection. I will take my chances with the 10%, and Rob...I do and always have read and respected your knowledge and keen advice, but I belive unless something else comes along....Rage is my choice.
FYI...In all actuality, to answer your other question, the paractice head is very similar to a real one except the blades are dull, and crimped tighter to not expand. After shooting mine into my BH target several times, a few "blades" have opened enough that I could take the dull blades and sharpen them or even replace with relacement blades.....then my practice BH is a hunting BH!
I see this going in circles. I had my bow tuned by a respectable archery pro shop, new string, paper tuned at 5, 10, and 15 yards. Had some minor adjustments with my knocking point being slightly low, added d loop, etc.
I did the three different BH's after my tuning, and even adjusted my APEX 5 pin as much as I could tolerate with each fixed BH, with the results that I posted. I've heard both sides of the alignment of fletching and in some ways flight is a science and if the difference is that much betwen fletching and fixed blade its either going to spin more than needed, or "steer" the BH. I dont need someone to tell me that a 1 1/2" 3 blade BH will not tend to "steer" or if WAY out of alignment with fletching will spin more than anyone desires. I like the tucked blades of a mechanical, the cutting diameter, and thats my choice. Regardless of doing this, that , or the other to adequately make a fixed BH do the same. After a tuned bow, shooting these three BH's, there was WAY too much changing my pins on my sight. Sure, I could always aim 3 inches left and high if I want to hit my mark, but I just want to hunt...and im not into 3d tournamaents or archery tournaments, so the underlying factor is what kills when I put my pin on the vitals. 90% of everyone who shoots the rage praise the accuracy, the other 10% complain of deflection. I will take my chances with the 10%, and Rob...I do and always have read and respected your knowledge and keen advice, but I belive unless something else comes along....Rage is my choice.
FYI...In all actuality, to answer your other question, the paractice head is very similar to a real one except the blades are dull, and crimped tighter to not expand. After shooting mine into my BH target several times, a few "blades" have opened enough that I could take the dull blades and sharpen them or even replace with relacement blades.....then my practice BH is a hunting BH!
Last edited by Hoyt_Viper; 07-18-2009 at 10:25 PM.
07-19-2009, 02:48 AM
#26
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
Rob,
I see this going in circles. I had my bow tuned by a respectable archery pro shop, new string, paper tuned at 5, 10, and 15 yards. Had some minor adjustments with my knocking point being slightly low, added d loop, etc.
I can assure you that you didn't take it to anyone who knew more of what they're talking about than Rob. He's (neither is Bruce or myself) not making this stuff up or "winging it", Jeff
I did the three different BH's after my tuning, and even adjusted my APEX 5 pin as much as I could tolerate with each fixed BH, with the results that I posted. I've heard both sides of the alignment of fletching and in some ways flight is a science and if the difference is that much betwen fletching and fixed blade its either going to spin more than needed, or "steer" the BH.
Jeff...I've never heard of one spinning TOO much. Spin is your friend (poet and didn't know it). Bigger the BH....more you want it spinning. Spin = stable in flight.
I dont need someone to tell me that a 1 1/2" 3 blade BH will not tend to "steer" or if WAY out of alignment with fletching will spin more than anyone desires.
If you think spin is a BAD thing.....well...yes, you do.
I like the tucked blades of a mechanical, the cutting diameter, and thats my choice.
And a fine choice it is....in the proper circumstances. Rob shoots them (mechanicals). In the hands of the right archer, they're devastatingly lethal. I've never seen anything to beat them. What bothers me (and others) is when hunters use them as a band-aid to cover up tuning issues. It's unfortunate and easily remedied.
Regardless of doing this, that , or the other to adequately make a fixed BH do the same. After a tuned bow, shooting these three BH's, there was WAY too much changing my pins on my sight.
Jeff....this statement doesn't juve. You don't tune a BOW, only. You tune a setup. Your arrow/BH choice is part of the tuning equation. The width of a BH can affect flight (and therefore affect setup.....tune). Length of BH can affect arrow dynamic spine. My personal opinion is...you can't have a bow/arrow combo that is "perfect" for every BH out there (even in the same weight). Can you get close? Of course. And, you can get close enough that the adjustments you were having to make indicates you WEREN'T (close).
Sure, I could always aim 3 inches left and high if I want to hit my mark, but I just want to hunt...and im not into 3d tournamaents or archery tournaments, so the underlying factor is what kills when I put my pin on the vitals.
If you're shooting 3D, it really doesn't matter if you're optimally in tune. WHo cares if your arrow is fishtailing a little of porpoising a little......if it hits where your pin is each shot???? We tune our hunting setups to get true arrow flight when it counts.
90% of everyone who shoots the rage praise the accuracy, the other 10% complain of deflection. I will take my chances with the 10%, and Rob...I do and always have read and respected your knowledge and keen advice, but I belive unless something else comes along....Rage is my choice.
I killed several deer with the head, Jeff (12 or more). It's a GREAT head. Was I optimally tuned for it EVERY time? NO! I know that, now. I'm not preaching to you. I'm trying to get you to realize that there's no reason you shouldn't be (tuned, correctly). There isn't a person in here that wouldn't help. Rob's where I'd start. Ditto Bruce. I won't speak for Rob....but my guess is he won't be steering you away from the Rage head, either. I suspect, out of the right setup, he's a fan.
Good luck.
FYI...In all actuality, to answer your other question, the paractice head is very similar to a real one except the blades are dull, and crimped tighter to not expand. After shooting mine into my BH target several times, a few "blades" have opened enough that I could take the dull blades and sharpen them or even replace with relacement blades.....then my practice BH is a hunting BH!
Jeff...
Did you buy these new? The factory rage practice head is blue and doesn't have blades. It also WILL NOT open.
I see this going in circles. I had my bow tuned by a respectable archery pro shop, new string, paper tuned at 5, 10, and 15 yards. Had some minor adjustments with my knocking point being slightly low, added d loop, etc.
I can assure you that you didn't take it to anyone who knew more of what they're talking about than Rob. He's (neither is Bruce or myself) not making this stuff up or "winging it", Jeff
I did the three different BH's after my tuning, and even adjusted my APEX 5 pin as much as I could tolerate with each fixed BH, with the results that I posted. I've heard both sides of the alignment of fletching and in some ways flight is a science and if the difference is that much betwen fletching and fixed blade its either going to spin more than needed, or "steer" the BH.
Jeff...I've never heard of one spinning TOO much. Spin is your friend (poet and didn't know it). Bigger the BH....more you want it spinning. Spin = stable in flight.
I dont need someone to tell me that a 1 1/2" 3 blade BH will not tend to "steer" or if WAY out of alignment with fletching will spin more than anyone desires.
If you think spin is a BAD thing.....well...yes, you do.
I like the tucked blades of a mechanical, the cutting diameter, and thats my choice.
And a fine choice it is....in the proper circumstances. Rob shoots them (mechanicals). In the hands of the right archer, they're devastatingly lethal. I've never seen anything to beat them. What bothers me (and others) is when hunters use them as a band-aid to cover up tuning issues. It's unfortunate and easily remedied.
Regardless of doing this, that , or the other to adequately make a fixed BH do the same. After a tuned bow, shooting these three BH's, there was WAY too much changing my pins on my sight.
Jeff....this statement doesn't juve. You don't tune a BOW, only. You tune a setup. Your arrow/BH choice is part of the tuning equation. The width of a BH can affect flight (and therefore affect setup.....tune). Length of BH can affect arrow dynamic spine. My personal opinion is...you can't have a bow/arrow combo that is "perfect" for every BH out there (even in the same weight). Can you get close? Of course. And, you can get close enough that the adjustments you were having to make indicates you WEREN'T (close).
Sure, I could always aim 3 inches left and high if I want to hit my mark, but I just want to hunt...and im not into 3d tournamaents or archery tournaments, so the underlying factor is what kills when I put my pin on the vitals.
If you're shooting 3D, it really doesn't matter if you're optimally in tune. WHo cares if your arrow is fishtailing a little of porpoising a little......if it hits where your pin is each shot???? We tune our hunting setups to get true arrow flight when it counts.
90% of everyone who shoots the rage praise the accuracy, the other 10% complain of deflection. I will take my chances with the 10%, and Rob...I do and always have read and respected your knowledge and keen advice, but I belive unless something else comes along....Rage is my choice.
I killed several deer with the head, Jeff (12 or more). It's a GREAT head. Was I optimally tuned for it EVERY time? NO! I know that, now. I'm not preaching to you. I'm trying to get you to realize that there's no reason you shouldn't be (tuned, correctly). There isn't a person in here that wouldn't help. Rob's where I'd start. Ditto Bruce. I won't speak for Rob....but my guess is he won't be steering you away from the Rage head, either. I suspect, out of the right setup, he's a fan.
Good luck.
FYI...In all actuality, to answer your other question, the paractice head is very similar to a real one except the blades are dull, and crimped tighter to not expand. After shooting mine into my BH target several times, a few "blades" have opened enough that I could take the dull blades and sharpen them or even replace with relacement blades.....then my practice BH is a hunting BH!
Jeff...
Did you buy these new? The factory rage practice head is blue and doesn't have blades. It also WILL NOT open.
07-19-2009, 08:54 AM
#27
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Horse Country, VA
Posts: 937
Jeff, Yes the head was blue, and a test head. After so many shots through my BH target, two of the "blades" actually started to open. I will post a picture of the latest one below.
Im not arguing a bit about your response either. I believe I made my point clear of the reason for my decison, but you misunderstood, I was darn close with each BH shot, just not deadnuts like the BH I am shooting, nor comfortable enough with a shot from a treestand with .3 seconds to react, draw and shoot.
Never did I discredit Rob, in fact, I praised his experience and knowledge. Im simply speaking my reasons and why they were made. BTW, my whole rig was tuned 100% from last year and attempted to tune the setup with the three BH mentioned, just w/o much success. Maybe you could have better luck doing it with my rig, maybe not, but I am done at the practice range for the year. my hunting rig is set and ready to slay with the best combo that I could come up with with my novice tuning abilities. As I mentioned earlier, I would love to shoot the Muzzy 3 but never could get the accuracy I desired while doing my "novice tuning"
I really do appreciate your input, so please dont take any sarcasm or disrespect from my replies. Its just what I am most comfortable with, and most importantly, comfortable I wont be killing ants or wounding any deer this year!
Here is a test head I could easily turn into a killing head!
Im not arguing a bit about your response either. I believe I made my point clear of the reason for my decison, but you misunderstood, I was darn close with each BH shot, just not deadnuts like the BH I am shooting, nor comfortable enough with a shot from a treestand with .3 seconds to react, draw and shoot.
Never did I discredit Rob, in fact, I praised his experience and knowledge. Im simply speaking my reasons and why they were made. BTW, my whole rig was tuned 100% from last year and attempted to tune the setup with the three BH mentioned, just w/o much success. Maybe you could have better luck doing it with my rig, maybe not, but I am done at the practice range for the year. my hunting rig is set and ready to slay with the best combo that I could come up with with my novice tuning abilities. As I mentioned earlier, I would love to shoot the Muzzy 3 but never could get the accuracy I desired while doing my "novice tuning"
I really do appreciate your input, so please dont take any sarcasm or disrespect from my replies. Its just what I am most comfortable with, and most importantly, comfortable I wont be killing ants or wounding any deer this year!
Here is a test head I could easily turn into a killing head!
07-19-2009, 09:43 AM
#28
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
Jeff:
If you're set...you're set. But if I were you....and I REALLY waned to shoot the Muzzy 3's.....I'd be PM-ing Bruce and Rob (and Tfox, et. al.) and following their instructions. It's not that difficult.....and it would benefit you no matter which head you decided to shoot.
Good luck to you.
If you're set...you're set. But if I were you....and I REALLY waned to shoot the Muzzy 3's.....I'd be PM-ing Bruce and Rob (and Tfox, et. al.) and following their instructions. It's not that difficult.....and it would benefit you no matter which head you decided to shoot.
Good luck to you.
07-19-2009, 11:32 AM
#29
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Horse Country, VA
Posts: 937
Thanks Jeff,
I really do appreciate your input, and wish the best of luck this year. Im hoping to see you with a wall hanger this year.
Seriously, I have so many different parcels to hunt, totalling now to close to 1000 acres with sole lease, you should make an excuse to get up here for a weekend, or hell even an afternoon hunt or two. You are always welcome.
What did you think about that practice head? I bet I can get replacement blades and put them in, or even put tips on the "pretend blades, and sharpen to an extent. But I wouldnt do that until I shot all six of my arrows and had one i my pack. still as accurate though. I had to put a rubber o-ring just to shoot my practice head!
I really do appreciate your input, and wish the best of luck this year. Im hoping to see you with a wall hanger this year.
Seriously, I have so many different parcels to hunt, totalling now to close to 1000 acres with sole lease, you should make an excuse to get up here for a weekend, or hell even an afternoon hunt or two. You are always welcome.
What did you think about that practice head? I bet I can get replacement blades and put them in, or even put tips on the "pretend blades, and sharpen to an extent. But I wouldnt do that until I shot all six of my arrows and had one i my pack. still as accurate though. I had to put a rubber o-ring just to shoot my practice head!
07-19-2009, 01:41 PM
#30
Fork Horn
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 414
If your bow is set up right... Just about any decent fixed blade broadhead will shoot great... If your having prob with broadhead flight then you really need to mess with your bows tuning more... Bottom line... No mechanical broadhead is ever going to out perform a GOOD fixed blade broadhead like a Muzzy...
Maybe over the top mechanicals but certainly not Rage.