Owl

Have you considered that the success rate you report that hunters are having with your bh, is (possibly) because most of the hits have not been at a critical angle that might exist that might deflect the head?

Well, I wasn' t there c903 when all those hunters took those shots. And I didn' t have the opportunity to tell them what shots to take. Thats why I trust the dealers to collectively provide a rational judgment. I can tell you that MANY of them told me they wouldn' t sell a head they hadn' t tested themselves, and they proceeded to do so. One common test I heard that dealers do is get a group together and proceed to deliberately shoot hogs in the shoulder. They seem to believe that will provide good input. Like I said, if feedback determines a problem I guarantee I will take care of it. I believe this years ferrules have improved case hardening and will hopefully shrink any breakage to nil. Nobody is monitoring my heads more than I am. It just seems logical that dealers are knowledgeable bowhunters who collect more straight poop on a broadheads performance from their and their customers experiences than anyone. I give a lot of credibility to their opinions. Shoot what you like and take a good shot, THANKS GARY

Say what!!!!???[]

[:' (][:' (]Thats just not right.[:' (][:' (] I don' t think your selling many broadheads with comments like that. I know I' m not buying.

I can' t believe that I just read that!!! Boy, now there is a group of stand up hunters testing that broadhead. What is next, going out and purposely gut shooting a deer to see how the heads perform on a gut shot. Sorry but I find that very unethical. I know that anytime the questions of an ethical shot come up there are people who rant about others being on their ethical soapboxes. In a post a while back it happened, and I apologized because the questionable shot was made by a brand new bowhunter in the heat of the moment. Understandablely, it all happened fast and the guy just didn' t know better. That is an understandable situation. But to purposely go out and make a marginal shot, that is a bunch of crap!! Sorry Gary but I really can' t believe that you posted that. I am glad that I don' t use your broadheads, because that would have made me change heads right there. I also wouldn' t buy a piece of bubblegum from these dealers who set up this little test. I have way too much respect for the animals that I hunt and the integrity of the sport to sit back and not give an opinion this time. And I won' t retract this time with an apology. This is an iffy shot that is taken ON PURPOSE!! Yes I am on the ethical soapbox and I am not stepping off this time! I still can' t believe that I just read that.

I want to know if " dealers" are (actually) shooting, live hogs or dead hogs in the shoulder? Either way, but more so if the hogs are alive, that is extremely bad publicity for bowhunting. If the hogs are alive when shot….in the shoulder, that is inhumane and totally uncalled-for. Any person committing such an act should be arrested for cruelty to animals….after he or she has had their butt kicked. If such an act is actually taking place and " dealers" are involved, those dealers should be shutdown…..and have their butts kicked.

If such acts are taking place, I am not sure they are, or at least to the degree that " Oldhootowl' s" statement implies, it would be another piece of evidence of how the " Rambo" mentality and the run for " bells and whistles" is ruining what bowhunting is supposed to be, and what once was. If it keeps up, the bowhunting sport will eventually suffer. How much more " flash, crash, and smash" is needed from broadheads -or any other bow gear to be efficient for bowhunting?

What does not make sense about " Oldhootowl' s" statement, is the pluralistic aspect of his statement vs. probability. Is there a state or national convention where dealers gather to test broadheads on live or dead animals? If not, how many bow equipment dealers can there possibly be in any given locale that gathers to shoot live or dead animals to test broadheads, and who is supplying the live or dead hogs?

Gary, I have some questions for you!

1. Do you know for a fact that the act of shooting live or dead animals for testing purposes is actually occurring? If not why would you say it is?
2. What have you done to confirm if such tests are occurring, or not occurring?
3. Is your product being used in these tests? If you do not positively know, have you made inquiries to find out if your product is being used in the tests?
4. Have you warned, and documented the warning, that dealers are not to use your product in the tests, and should they do so you will no longer supply them with your product?

YOU made the statement, and the WORLD will read it....which will include the " anti' s." You had better have some good answers and a fantastic explanation!

Being a bowhunter, your statement, bs or not, has demeaned me, many bowhunters, and the sport. You had better clean up the mess you just made.

I agree c903. I would think that if they were shooting dead hogs, he would have stated that they were using hog carcasses to test the effectivness of the broadhead on the shoulders of the dead hogs. But he stated that these dealers get together groups and proceed to deliberatly shoot hogs in the shoulder. That sounds to me like going out on a hunt and and shooting the hogs intentionally in the shoulder to test the broadhead. And by the way it reads c903, they are indeed using Gary' s broadheads for this test. maybe it is just me, but if I had knowledge that my product was being used in this manner, I would do everything I could to put an end to it immediately, and I would distance myself as far away as these idiots as I could. I surely wouldn' t come on a public forum and present it as a test of the effectiveness of my product. I will be honest, ever since I read that post this moring it has really been on my mind. I called a buddy and he read it and he was floored also. If these tests are being done on dead hogs that were legally taken or died naturally, then fine. No problem. But it sure sounds as if these guys are just out hog hunting, probably in a fenced in area, and intentionally shooting the hogs in the shoulder. I am sorry to keep rambling but I just can' t believe that this was posted. I hope these guys are exposed for this and the all lose business over it. I personally do not want to support a dealer that would involve himself in this. I guess I have said enough. Time to go out and mow the yard and enjoy this nice weather. Then I will fling some arrows. Maybe a few hours riding around on the mower can calm me down, because frankly this has really ticked me off!!!

Proff

I am with you. I wanted to put my fist through my monitor when I read his comment. Regardless of what he now has to say -regarding his statment, the damage has been done.

I (personally) would not purchase his product, nor will I recommend it to anyone.

Well excuse me for living. I just reported what I had heard, don' t know any details on it, in the course of the year can' t point you to the culprits. I do recall they reported they had no problem dispatching the hogs. It wasn' t " my" test, and I am not advertising such. It just popped in my mind as I was typing when the subject of penetration came up. I suppose if you hear somebody using whatever heads you use doing it you won' t buy those either. Every head out there has somebody posting something about it, you guys are going to be kept busy switching. Too much of a lynch mob mentality here, internet sites are pretty wild. Move on to the next guy, I have work to do.

As the initiator of this post, I am appalled at how off the question it has become, to the point of questioning someone' s integrity and ethics. I only wanted to know some real experiences with this head. I got a little, but I won' t ask again, and I think I' ll figure it out for myself. Thanks to those who provided the input I requested. The rest of you... well I' ll refrain from saying what I think... let' s just say I' ll know who to ignore from now on!!!