RE: baiting
 

Are we talking "hands" on experiance? :eek:

RE: baiting
 

Yes. What you wanna know?

RE: baiting
 

Not to throw fuel on the fire, but baiting helps if the objective is to have ANY deer in bowrange, period. Those who don't want to believe this are either in denial, or im not sure what. I've done both, and I know it does helpjust as well as others know it hurts.

Everyone keeps referencing back to year round bait stations or pounded hunted everyday carelessly setups....

If a guy throws out a 50 lb sack of corn in a known deer area, and comes back to hunt it the following weekend, does anyone have a logical reason why it hurts his chances? I know it doesn't just trying to see why some think it does.

RE: baiting
 

Same reason an over-hunted NON-baited stand hurts your chances.

RE: baiting
 

Just checking to see if you read it right, how can it be over hunted if he threw it out and a week later setup over it for the first time?

RE: baiting
 

You're acting like every (or even the "average") person who baits does so with precision and unabated tact.

Get real, Trevor.;)

We're not discussing the people who have this down to an art form. I thought we were discussing the practice "in general". Your example is like trying to compare Phil Mickelson going for a par 5 in two from 277yds......and whether or not "golfers" should try it. Hell yeah it works most times......if you're Phil.

Most baiters ain't Phil;)

Most baiters dump it in the drink and make 8.

RE: baiting
 

You can kill deer over corn. You can kill them over acorns. You can kill them over honeysuckle. You can kill them over grass. You can kill them over water.

What you can and can not do is up to you. Now, just how do you want to get 'er dun?

LT

RE: baiting
 

Not sure where that all came from....but how on earth is dumping out a sack of corn and returning a week later "down to an art form"?

In general, that's what ALOT of guys around here do...They dump out corn, and then hunt over it. No art form, no golfing. Not year round bait stations, not guys that hunt 5x a week. Maybe once a week guys, if that. These guys "in general" dont hunt enough to pressure deer in the first place.

Oh well, now it just sounds like I am generalizing all baiters which is what I wanted to steer clear from, because they aren't all the same just as all non baiters arent the same. We both realize that though.

It ain't like I'm calling it easy. I'm just saying a bait pile helps your odds, as does being in the woods during the rut, using scents, hunting trails instead of this spot looks good, being scent cautious, hunting great farms over average farms, switching it upduring setupsetc....plenty of tactics hunters employ to improve their odds, baiting absolutely being one of them.

RE: baiting
 

So what is this big art form you keep mentioning. Are you a master at it? You either dump bait or you don't. You pick times, and you do it.

I guess if one took this step he could just take to the next logical step and make like a caged trap. That way next day, just go out and shoot it in the cage. Could check it in on a trappers licence. Then run back in thier house and get their camo on and take pictures with it.

RE: baiting
 

Jeff,

So you do agree that it's true and my above statement correct......IF done correctlybaiting will produce better results than if not done at all?

So getting back to the original question, isbaiting (and yes I mean done correctly)different than hunting over a cut corn field....The answer then HAS to be yes it is. If done correctly baiting will give you a distinct advantage because you can pinpoint with far greater accuracy where and in some cases when the deer will show up. You simply set up in that location and your odds of killing a deer....any deer increase dramatically.

With your average crop field(multi acre) you won't be able to predict with much accuracy where the deer will enter the field because their food source IS the entire crop field. Sure you can locate trails and set up their but unlike the pile of corn or automatic feeder, you can't be sure exactly where the deer will be.

That feeder out in the middle of nowhere when other sources of food is scarce is going to be an oasis for the deer....and they will go to it. People feed deer all the time and they keep coming day in and day out. You can even see them on line now with those streaming videos of the deer feeding. They have even been posted right here in the bow hunting forum.

Bottom line....if done correctly it will give you an advantage and yes it's different and more advantageous than hunting over a crop field.

Can we put this thread to rest now??

RE: baiting
 

If I am not mistaken the study that GMMAT is talking about was done because of the split in the SC laws on baiting. The upper state hunters were saying that the lower state huntershad an unfairadvantage.You can not bait in the upper state of SC, but you can in the lower state. The harvest numbers also prove that there is no advantages of baiting.Upperstate huntersactuallykill moredeerthan the lower state where baiting is legal.Our record book also shows that the bigger bucks come from the upper state.

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What's the deer demographics in SC?

For instance, if a state carriedthe better partof it's Whitetail populationin the upper portion of the state then even with baiting the lower half still wouldn't come close in numbers killed.

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http://dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/deer/deermap.html

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As you see there isn't a big difference in the deer numbers throughout most of the state.

RE: baiting
 

This is the ignorance that breeds elitist attitudes.

Fair question. What's your goal? If your goal is to kill "A" deer.....I'd say you're correct.

Now what do you do? You've killed ONE. See....the problem (IN REALITY....where people bait)....is...they keep hunting the same old baited spot.....the same old way.....entering the same way.....exiting the same way......etc...., etc..., etc... You see the trend.

So now what do they do from that point on? Their baited spot will suffer. Period.

There's no doubt in my mind I could bait this time of year and be successful.....even with bucks. But let's remember when we talk about baiting....that we're not talking about the Greg Millers of the world (as a community). Think about how most hunters use scents. You think everybody who buys tinks 69 uses it correctly? Plays the wind (though I can't figure that one out, yet)? Let's be real. Baiting isn't as easy as you make it.....and my bet is about 5% do it with any smarts about them.

Again....size of the pile, John. And the fact that the multi acre field is unpredictable probably AIDS the hunter to be honest. If he knew THE trail they'd take to it......he'd overhunt it.....just like most baiters do their centralized spot. Think about that.

Please cite your hands-on experience with this. Also....the flocking you're talking about.....are people HUNTING while they're feeding them? ReallY? And they keep coming back? Even when Myrtle got shot yesterday.....and Sally, last week? Really? To the same spot?

I sure hope so.

RE: baiting
 

Jeff you saying Greg Miller baits? He can not stand it from a convo I had with him once.
*I could of missunderstood you pal*

We having baiting in northern Wisconsin but not down in my area of the south.
Yes we dont like and they love it. The thing is you nailed it on the head how a spot can get ruined.
My buddy has been baiting the same spot for 3 years now and this season he did not see one deer.
They were coming in at night only and learned his pattern. He has this truck with one loud muffler
and you can hear him coming in a mile away and then leave. These deer no doubt learned about him.
Thing is also their is not a corn field for milesand this year I found 3 piles around his area.
I admit it I pissed in 2 of em.

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Yes you did. No inference intended.

RE: baiting
 

How so Jeff? Only way for one to see some with an elitist attitude is to feel inferior to them somehow.

Why don't you be so kind to educate us dumb folk who don't know anything about deer hunting on this art form you keep saying over and over.

RE: baiting
 

Lets say you had access to 100 acres of corn......and the deer were using only one trail to access it. You hunt that trail every day.

Ya think they "might" change up their pattern?

Difference in hunting ag fields and baiting is the size of the "pile". So let's say you have a man "baiting" who sets up multiple bait sites (increasing the size of his "pile"). He hunts only the bait site that he can access playing the wind....never hunting a bad wind....and never over-hunting a spot. That guy is upping his odds. I dont' know ANYONE who does this, personally. But that doesn't mean it couldn't be done with precision.

Most people who actally bait are as dumb and lazy (the people I know who do it) as you give them credit for. Their results reflect this. That's why I profess that it isn't an advantage for the "average" guy baiting.

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So its not that baiting itself is not effective,it is that baiter's are to dumb to master the art of properly placing and hunting their baits ?

RE: baiting
 

I'd say that would be true in just about ANY aspect of introducing artificial means to attract deer.....wouldn't you?

You think everyone who hunts ag fields has the same hunting savvy? People who use scents? People who use decoys? Calling to deer?

Let's just remember, too, that we're talking about a legal method of taking game, here.

RE: baiting
 

Jimbo if you knew my buddy you hit on the head pal.


Cheers

RE: baiting
 

My turn to jump in. I bait. I have a feeder on my new lease. It throws corn for five seconds every morning at 7:10. The feeder sits on a logging road half way down a secondary ridge. Thereare a lot of deer tracks under and around the feeder. I don't own a trail camera as I feel they give hunters an unfair advantage and should be illegal,( see tongue in cheek), so the tracks are the only way I know something is feeding there besides hunting there. I watched that feeder out of a pop-up blind several times this season. I saw does, does, fawns, and does. Altough some of the tracks are obviously those of a buck or more than one buck, I have never seen one at the feeder. I don't often hunt at the feeder although I do hunt the area around it. I have several stands in an area that encompasses about 30 acres around the feeder. I see mature buck sign in the area. There are large rubs and scrapes around on various trails. I have seen a couple of mature bucks in the area, however, again, never have I seen one at the feeder.
The woods I hunt are 2000 acres of a mix of hardwoods and pines. I have no earthly idea where the nearest ag field may be. My guess would be that it is measured in miles not yards. Those of you in the midwest that condemn baiting have ag fields that concentrate deer populations. They may not concentrate them to the same pinpoint location that a feeder does but it does concentrate the deer. THATS WHY YOU HUNT THERE NOW ISN'T IT? I don't have a natural food source to concentrate the deer population. There are oaks all over the property. ALL over the property. The deer can and do feed all over the place. I am using a feeder to concentrate the population into a smaller area. In my case the 30 or so acres of woods on the ridge where my feeder is located. How is that different than the hunter sitting at a 30 acre ag field? I hunt trails leading to bedding areas and other travel routes hoping to catch one of the bucks moving around looking for a doe. I know I won't see one of the bucks at the feeder.
So, those of you that have the luxury of hunting ag fields tell me what I can do to stop being a "slob" hunter in your eyes while still giving me the same odds as you to see and kill a mature whitetail buck.
BTW, I also have foodplots planted so I bait in more ways than one. I am also eating tag soup so far this year.

RE: baiting
 

THIS is aprime exampleof baiting smart. People against baiting don't wanna hear of this, though. They wonder why you just don't set up 15yds from the feeder and slay every deer within square miles of it.

RE: baiting
 

GMMAT,

I assure you that baiting isn't always "lazy". Try carrying a 100lb bag of corn in the swamps and sand hills of SC. Then tell me thats lazy.

On the flip side, I do know guys who just back up their trucks and unload a pile of corn on the road then go climb in a boxed in tree stand and wait for the does and younger deer to appear. They often wonder why they don't see any mature bucks on the corn.

If baiting made killing mature bucks so much easier every hunter in SC would have multiple record book bucks on their walls.

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Haha- Thanks man. I appreciate that.:)

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I don't recall using the term "lazy". I know guys who work really hard at what they do who don't maximize their efforts. I'm sure you know people who take 50 hrs to accomplish the same thing the next guy gets done in 30hrs. I'd say the latter guy has found a way to maximize his efforts......and that he's probably more successful.

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Fair enough.....and I stand by that (with my explanation) 100%.

RE: baiting
 

As I stated.....You are more than welcome to come hunt with me on my land and I will let you carry the bag of corn.:)

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It's legal, here, Tom. If I thought it would up my odds.....I'd do it.

RE: baiting
 

LoL

Come on. I am too lazy to carry it myself.:eek:

RE: baiting
 

I don't know you.....or how you hunt. If you took offense....it wasn't at anything I said. I qualified my post pretty precisely.

RE: baiting
 

I didn't take offense to it. I just find it funny.

RE: baiting
 

How so? Do you know these guys?

RE: baiting
 

Wow, this sure is a "heated" debate. While I have not read all the above posts, I have a comment. I can only comment on my personal experiences. To those that call the baiter lazy, they have never carried 100#'s of corn through the woods to their location, lol. I used to hunt with a guy that did jut that 2 times aa week at multiple locations in northern Wisconsin. Between the cost of the corn, the time and money to drive 2 hours north 2x a week and the effort(sweat) to tramp in the woods, I myself did not see it worth while. When my father first started baiting a stand 20 years ago, it worked, plain and simple. He shot a lot of deer up north over a corn pile. Now, not so much. Are there less deer? Maybe, but I believe it has turned them nocturnal. The bait disappears each night, no sightings during daylight hours. The trailcam proves this also.
Wow, I am rambling, lol. So, if done right, can it work? Probably, only you know for sure. My dad still thinks it does even though he sees very few deer over the bait.I do think that deer "learn" what the corn pile means----danger. If you use a bait pile and it works for you, great! If you have been using one and not seeing deer, like my dad, try something else. I truly believe that in the big woods of Northern Wisconsin, if you are not able to get a huge amount of bait in the woods without giving yourself away, it will not work the majority of the time. So in our scenario, it does not work like you would hope. It would be too expensive and/or illegal to do it where it would start to work. I say illegal, because to really work, you would needa feeder to distribute the bait over a longer period of time and maybe even have a cover on it at night, so the deer can only feed during the day.
hope this made sense, I'm dizzy from writing it. If it works for you great, but I really would have better luck up north if people did not do it any longer since to me, it makes them much more nocturnal. This may be only becaue the ones doing it are not doing if correctly, my dad being one of them. I think he "checks" the corn pile even more than hunts it, the deer probably watch him walk in on the same trail at the same time every day to the same stand with no regard for the wind, and wonders why the luck does not change????

RE: baiting
 

Ahh man... You will fuss with a stop sign. I just got off work. I am going to bed.

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So this is the big art, us dumb folk on here do not know about? Don't overhunt a spot and don't overhunt your bait? Hmm, I am not sure about this art as you say. Most of us dumb folk knows not to overhunt a spot, and learned this quite early in hunting. Is there anymore to this artform?

I have yet to see a mature buck hit bait in the day. Not saying it can't happen. I just have yet to see it.

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I never called anyone on here dumb or lazy. You have to read what I wrote (and even highlighted).

So are YOU the one arguing how easy or how hard baiting is?

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Sure you did Jeff. You have several times posted that certain views promote elitism and are ignorant. For you to know they are are ignorant, ill informned or elitist, you need to know better than them. So therefore, one can conclude you feel you superior to us dumb folk who know nothing about deer or thier habits. Maybe you are.

So once again, there has to be some more too it than "don't overhunt spots". Maybe you can enlighten us since you have proclaimed how you know are not ill informed.

I have always felt (not know or big expert like you proclaim) that baiting hurts your chances, spreads disease, for killing a decent buck. Sure, does, and spikes are taken, but not all of us here are after does and spikes.