RE: baiting
 

I guess the honest answer is "indifferent." I supplement my deer outside of the season and the 30 days before. When the snow is heavy on the mountain, I bring ear corn. I also have protein blocks out almost year round. SOOOO, in regards to legal baiting, I still loathe the hunter that dumps out a bag of corn the same day or the day before. (if that is his "total game plan") I guessI have no problem with guys in baiting states that go about it in a more herd healthy and methodical way. Like you said, it's just hard for me to wrap my head around it. Gots respect for what you do and have done in a baiting state.

RE: baiting
 

And all along I thought:

1. Farmers planted corn in fields so that they could harvest in order to feed their livestock and sell it on the open market in order to make money to make a living. They attempt to maximize their harvest = income by leaving as little corn as possible left on the ground. However, the harvest process is an imperfect system which leaves residual corn and by-products scattered randomly for wildlife to eat. Some hunters take advantage of this imperfect process by strategically setting up stands or blinds around trails in which they believe wildlife will enter these fields. Some of the more successful hunters may also have had the ability to take time to scout these areas in order to determine if there was a pattern to where the deer entered the field - thus again strategically placing their stands or blinds.

The intention of the corn in this situtation was for the farmer to make a living / career / lifestyle - the result provided an opportunity for a hunter to take advantage of this situation. (Is this an unfair advantage? - you decide)

2. Baiters (who bait with corn) intentionally place strategic piles of corn in areas where it will optimize their success for killing a deer (or other animal). They may set up their stands or blinds first, in trees and areas that they want the deer to come close to - and then place the pile close by.

The intention of the corn in this situation was to kill a deer. (Is this an unfair advantage? - you decide)

3. Food Plots? - (What is the intention? - Is this an unfair advantage - you decide).


I really do not care if hunters (purposefully) bait or not, unless they bait where it is illegal.
As you can see from the above - my definition of baiting comes down to what the original intention of the food source was.
So to me, that is the difference.

Be safe, be ethical, be lawful and continue to promote hunting for the next generation.

RE: baiting
 

in·dig·e·nous

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(Ä*n-dÄ*j'É™-nÉ™s) Pronunciation Key
adj.
[*]Originating and living or occurring naturally in an area or environment. See Synonyms at native.[*]Intrinsic; innate. [/ol]
I have never seen an idigenous corn field. A farmer has always planted the ones I've seen.

I'd also say that there is quite a bit of difference between a 40 acre corn field and a bait pile.

A corn field is usually planted for grain to provide feed for domestic animals.

A bait pile is planted to attract deer so they can be shot.

A bait pile will concentrate deer within range of the hunter.

A corn field may or may not concentrate deer within range of the hunter.

If you are referencing the corn field as a food plot provided for deer. Again, it may or may not attract deer with range of the hunter. If it is small enough it will increase the odds for the hunter to have a deer within range. Therefore.......Yes ..... the difference between a food plot and a bait pile is the size. The bait pile will afford the hunter the greatest chance at having a deer come into range.

The bait pile will not offer the deer any lasting nutritional value after the season as the food plot would either. Food plot = dual purpose.... Bait pile= single purpose.

RE: baiting
 

AFter reading Greg's post, I would like to add something. This year was the first year I had access to hunt crop fields, mainly one 30 acre bean field. Exactly once, in this field did I have a shot at a buck and that was just because the doe decided to run my way. I have sets in 6 spots all around this field. Pile the beans up and set a stand 15 yards off, and tell me it's the same, I'll say you a liar.[8D]

RE: baiting
 

Both Methods are used to kill deer.Food plots are usedto give the hunter an advantage. Stands are placed around them too.................right?

RE: baiting
 

Stands placed around a pile o corn vs stands placed around a 10 to 30 acre field?

RE: baiting
 

Yes. Let's say you set up on one side of the field and see deer entering the plot from another.....do you move your stand or for the sake of fairness............stay put?

What if the plot is let's say 2-3 acres or 1 acre? Is it the size of the plotonly that matters? What if it's Biologic planted specifically for deer?

What if I buy 500 LBs of corn and use a spreader to cascaed it over several acres...........is that different?

RE: baiting
 

That was my point, yes. Corn is an artificial food source for the whitetail no matter how you slice it up.

I'm neither disregarding the rest of your points nor denying their validity. They are valid. Mine were, too.

Disagree....unless your farmers leave their corn in the fields all season long and don't harvest it. If a person is supplemental feeding/baiting....and does so all year long....I'd say he's doing MORE to offer the deer a lasting nutritional value.

Do we really believe the hunter hunting a corn field edge is not intending to use the corn's presence in his situation to aid in the taking of a deer? You decide.

RE: baiting
 

What about micro food plots that are so popular? Ive seen a guy berate baiting, yet sets on miniture clover plots that allow him a shot at any point of entrance.


What about Decoys? Not much sport there. What about doe in heat urine? Not much sport there. Shoot, why a compound bow? if you want a challange, get you a self bow. Or better yet, make you a bow and go kill your deer with it. I do it, its much more difficult. So I guess I am allowed to berate everyone on this board.


Here is a bamboo backed Osage bow I built this year and shot most of my deer with this season.

And a few hogs

Or how about a yew recurve I built several years ago.


Both hogs and the doe were shot during a still hunt. So i guess i can be an elitest. All of you who buy your bows, hunt from a tree, or use scents or Decoy are unethical and I simply loath you.:eek:


Oh the Irony just makes me laugh.


Some of you guys really need to enjoy what you do and not get bent out of shape at what other do. But then agian, hunters wont quit hateing each other until we kill the whole sport.

RE: baiting
 

You bet I do, BUT with a bait pile you don't have too right? All I am saying is that there is a huge difference between field/ food plot hunters and bait pile/ feeder hunters. Thefirst has alot more ground to cover and room for error.

RE: baiting
 

Do we really believe the hunter hunting a corn field edge is not intending to use the corn's presence in his situation to aid in the taking of a deer? You decide.

[/quote]

Please re-read my post.

The answer is no.
But the HUNTER did not BAIT.

The farmer planted the corn - the hunter took advantage.

It was pretty clearly stated.

RE: baiting
 

Micro food plots?[&:] I call them Kill Plots and I have used them with great success in MI. I use them to draw(bait:D) does away from my sanctuarys. Then with a well place arrow I kill the doe and do not have to trample through my best hunting spots.

30x30 near corn or acorns is where I set them up.

I will use any legal method to kill a whitetail where I hunt;)

RE: baiting
 

Deer will feed in a picked corn field all winter long. They eat more than just the "corn", they eat the remains of the plant and discard of the combine. So it is a lasting food source.

Hunting a corn field edge in farm country is different than hunting a big woods oak flat........How?

There is a difference between hunting food sources and bait piles......right?

RE: baiting
 

So if my buddy kills a deer tomorrow.....over a bunch of acorns "I" put out.....he's simply "taking advantage" and not baiting?

RE: baiting
 

Burnie, simple question, answer honestly:

Which hunter do you respect more?
Hunter A plants food plot in spring by clearing ground, tilling ground, and fertilizing. Continuous care weekly through summer and early fall. Kills buck.
Hunter B buys corn in bag two days before season, dumps on ground, comes back in two days. Kills buck.

This is a crude analogy I know,but I am curious. A or B? Anyone can play too.[8D]

RE: baiting
 

Honestly, I could care less. If hunter A enjoys what he isdoing, great. If hunter B enjoyswhat he is doing, Great. I respect that they are both enjoying what they do. I’m a bowyer and make bows all the time. I use my own custom bows and tend to push myself to my personal limits to get the enjoyment I seek. I don’t give a rats back side how anyone else does it, because I’m not in it for others or to force others to prescribe to my method of madness. Its this elitest, soap box mentality that puts more wedges in our dieing hunting population.

RE: baiting
 

Only in the sense (they're different) that the oak flat IS Indigenous. Which, to me, is HUGE.

In your second question.....if one is indigenous and the other is artificial....yes...huge difference. Like you said earlier....if they're both artificial....the difference becomes the size of the pile.

RE: baiting
 

Are you a farmer in the acorn business?

RE: baiting
 

And I respect you for that. I respect that people do what they enjoy, not try to one up each other. I do not respect those who try to force their notion of what a hunter should be, on others. Heck, im taking out some friends to do some hunting on my land. They will be hunting deer and hogs with bows. I am going to grab a rifle and set up on the opposite end of my land to try to call varmints. Could I use a bow to do that. Sure, I do it all the time. Im a little weary from the deer season, so I simplywant to set up, relax, and call yotes and cats and shoot them from far away. Heck, I had to pull out a compound this year and shot one of my bucks. I broke a finger and had heck drawing my heavy longbows. Just like you said Germ, ill use every legal method to hunt. Most of the time I like to challenge myself, but this next weekend, im not in that mood.;)

RE: baiting
 

Ben it's hunting and it's suppose to be fun.

RE: baiting
 

I fail to see the relevance in this question. Acorns are indigenous to even the grounds I placed them on. Using your logic.....the man placing the bait pile is golden.....because he's using a crop that was farm grown to make up his baited area.

RE: baiting
 

Germ, I have a blast. I just get bothered by others determining how society views the sport I love so much. If burnie doesn't mind getting lumped in with the most visible members of the club, that's cool with me.

Guys I am heading to climb my tree on my 30 acre pile soybeans, hunt safe, see ya later.

RE: baiting
 

I am simply pointing out how the elitest attitude is going to ruin the sport. I, as well as Kanga, ChrisW, and others who are bowyers, could cry foul to the highest because it is too easy to kill a deer with a compound. Heck, that is why I went back to trad bows back in the 90s and even started makeing them. I love hunting, but as Germ mentioned, its for enjoyment.So if it bendsyouso much out of shape that you cannot enjoy it because someone else might be doing it easier, thenyoureally needs to analyze why you are hunting in the first place.;)


Oh yea, and if you are worried about society, let me clue you in on something. If they are agianst hunting, it dont matter. If they dont care, and are not hunters, they dont care.

Not sure how old you are, but back in the 70s and 80s there was a push to keep bows from the field period. To much room for mistakes. Heck, there was even a push to ban compounds. Society is the least of our worries. Our fellow hunters are our biggest problems.

RE: baiting
 

We do a great job ourselves of throwing each other unders the bus:D

Way I look at it is this:

At the end of the day when a hunter kills a deer, he may have killed by

baiting
foodplot
funnel
scrape
called in
ambushed
etc

whatever method the hunter use, the deer is still dead;) The challenge does not make a deer deader. if the hunters is happy with his deer, then who cares.

In all honsty the non-hunting public really does not care what we do, they really don't.

RE: baiting
 

Excellent post.;)

RE: baiting
 

Dead on Germ. It's the hollier than thou attitudes amoung ourselves that blows my mind. Ben actually used the worde "loathe" That speaks volumes to me. It's sad really.

RE: baiting
 

INTENT

RE: baiting
 

Good one Burnie, you have exposed yourself, with photographic evidence as a .......(gasp!).....Pretender!![:-]

Everyone knows that a true elitist doesn't use aluminum arrows with (gasp!) METAL broad heads!! They don't live in houses constructed with man made materials either! They use wood arrows, stone broad heads and live in huts constructed out of animal skins which were sewn together with sinew and porcupine quill, or maybe stones and mud. You're busted! [8D]

Besides that, you've been out of the loop on the Bow hunting forum for too long........Just this week (earlier) we all got through this elitism crisis by deciding that to be a good hunter you must be proficient with your weapon of choice. This includes, guns (all kinds), bows (all kinds), spears, knives, catapults and bare hands. Therefore, it is a given that ALL of us are proficient with any weapon that we choose to use because we are all good hunters. We also decided that it's really all about the hunt, not the weapon.

Come join us! ;)

RE: baiting
 

Again....is the guy hunting the artificial ag crop's INTENT not to lure the deer into bow range via the crop he's sitting over?

What's his intention....if not that?

RE: baiting
 

Call me crazy but, isn't it all of our intentions to kill deer when we hunt? [&:].

RE: baiting
 

You would think so, wouldn't you? Some of these threads are making me start to wonder, though.

RE: baiting
 

no kidding...what the heck is going on around here lately?

RE: baiting
 

Actually, that is my office made of metal. My house is a tee pee I made from moose hide I killed with a rock after chaseing it down on foot in 20 ft of snow.:D Those arrows are not aluminum. Good grief, what kind of hunter do you think I am? They are carbon:D. Actuall I have had obsidian heads and wooden arrows. I got away from them because of the cost. Much sharper heads, but a beotch to tune. And they are good for one animal, then they are pretty much done. There are some things I fudged as I got older, and arrows and self bowsare them.;)

RE: baiting
 

No kidding...people continue to comment without reading the original post and then it gets out of hand.

To re-cap, my response was in response to a post that questioned the difference between a cut corn field and a pile of corn - whether or not they both qualified as baiting.

My short reply:
The hunter who hunts over a cut corn field is NOT baiting, because he had no INTENT to bait. He was using the field to his advantage to kill deer.

The hunter who purposefully sets out a pile of corn is baiting. It was his INTENT to bait.

In both instances, they intend to kill deer.

One hunter baits, the other doesn't.

Rocket science.

RE: baiting
 

It's nothing new, Cooter. It's the same old song-and-dance. Some folks just aren't happy unless they're arguing. That's a big part of why I have an ex-wife.[8D]

RE: baiting
 

You left out master baiters.

RE: baiting
 

If you think corn is an indigenous crop....then I can see why you think a corn pile is baiting (although it would equate to putting out acorns, really). If you agree it isn't (and that they're BOTH "artificial")....I can't see the difference...other than the size of the pile.

No argument, here.....just stuck on what's artificial and what isn't.

We don't want others second-guessing our means and methods of taking game.....but it's seemingly "OK" to question another hunter's legal methods for doing just that?

Interesting.

RE: baiting
 

To a point your right IMO. But from my view, its a tad different. Someone asks for opinions on a contraversal subject, people answers, and people gets thier feelings hurt because it doesn't align with thier own view. So the people that get thier feelings hurt decides to step outside the orginal question and start questioning why someone feels that way. Or change thier mind on the matter. Hunters don't change thier mind very often. So then because they disagree, they are elitist, they are on high horses or as in this thread, they are uneducated on the matter, or ignorant. The people that get thier feeling hurt feel attacked or belittled. But in reality, its rare for two people to totally agree on everything.

From my view, people are extremely sensitive.

RE: baiting
 

You're absolutely correct, of course. There are a few on here, however, that seem tohaveturned the insult-slinging argumentinto an artform.

RE: baiting
 

I agree, BC. We had a thread on animal respect that exemplified that, just yesterday.