RE: Not 2 Impressed with the 09 Hoyts
 

Heard the Hoyts have been declining. Glad I decided not to get one.

RE: Not 2 Impressed with the 09 Hoyts
 

All of this talk makes me won't the Alphamax BAD.:D:D I was in the market for a new bow last year and the General was my first choice.[:'(] After reading acouple childishthreads like this, I went with the Katera.:):):)
The bowtechie's made my mind up for me.[8D]THANKS GUYS , I'm one satisfied customer.:):):)

RE: Not 2 Impressed with the 09 Hoyts
 

Question, why would someone's comment about a particular brand make you buy another ??


Local dealer that I deal with sells both companies, said that the AlphaMax should be in the store next week.

RE: Not 2 Impressed with the 09 Hoyts
 

Exactly, nothing wrong with using what works. Same as with the roller and suppressor that was so kindly being busted on previously. ;) If it works, it works.

Hoyt makes a very fine bow, It will be interesting to read the reviews once everyone starts to shoot them. I'm sure the looks will take second seat to the shooting. In a way, they've grasped the cp design of Bowtech, I'm betting they will be quiet.

RE: Not 2 Impressed with the 09 Hoyts
 

Still dropping deer.... 180 grains at a time.... if you date the original government release, it's 105 years old.

Often imitated, never copied. Often expounded on, never improved upon.

RE: Not 2 Impressed with the 09 Hoyts
 

Elk, I gotta play the devil's advocate here..... you started this thread saying how you weren't impressed with the new Hoyts.... and you haven't even put your hands on one yet? How in the world can you give us your honest opinion if you haven't even SEEN the thing? :eek:

RE: Not 2 Impressed with the 09 Hoyts
 

This got me laughing, very humorous! But Winchester stole the casing to make a .270 in 1923. Wonder if anyone called them copy cats back then ??? :DThen that dam REmington stole that case again in 1957 to make the .280.

This guy seemed to get a lot of copy cats too.....everybody had to go and put wheels on their bows after this...... check out his Tec riser!

http://www.socalarchery.com/Information/The%20invention%20of%20the%20compound%20bow.pdf

RE: Not 2 Impressed with the 09 Hoyts
 

YES ROB,I pointed that out last week when it was brought up that Hoyt copied Bowtech and posted pictures of that same (IDEA)design before.So much has been done in archery over the years that being truly innovative just isn't going to happen much anymore.All these design have definately been refined and are much better than they were but to say they are new is kinda like when Mathews followers says they invented the 1 cam.

RE: Not 2 Impressed with the 09 Hoyts
 

He has a point there.

Our shop carries Mathews, Bowtech, Hoyt and Pro-Series PSE.

Now, "work on" is a relative term. I work on more mathews than anything else, but thats because at our shop, mathews outsells all other bows probably 2:1... and 3:1 if you include Mission. I don't push them... they sell themselves... and do you know why that is...... ADVERTISING!!!!!!

And that is exactly why, in my opinion, people think that Hoyt is slipping.... because they don't see it on TV as much... there are no big money Hoyt commercials like there are for Mathews, Bowtech, Diamond and PSE. No youtube "Prove It" campaigns.

Everyone wonders why the Drury boys went to PSE.... I'll tell you why.... all you have to do is listen to the worlds smallest violin playing between your thumb and index fingers..... $$$$. PSE offered them their own branded bow... and probably a right attractive endorsement package. It isn't because Hoyt makes an inferior product, and as a proffessional archery tech of nine years now, I would refute that statement anyway. But then of course, it depends on what you want out of it... Hoyts are a heck of a lot easier to work on... that makes my job easy... and I like easy. Back to the point here, money is the reason SO MANY PRO SHOOTERS shoot for mathews and PSE... look at their contingency programs! The guys who are winning the national level circuits are talented enough that they could win with any bow, so long as they were comfortable with it. They would probably tell you that their sight, or their release, and their custom grip made a lot more difference than their bow... but for an extra $15,000... yeah... it was my Mathews baby!!!!! You'd be a damn fool not to.....

Now, as to what I think the "best" bow is.... there isn't one.... there is an ass for every seat. I think that if you were to walk into the shop, tell me what you want in a bow... how much money you want to spend, and I was to size up your build, use and ability... I think I could narrow it down to 2 or 3 that you'd be tickled pink with. But that all depends on YOU.

My opinion is that if I can put the right bow for someone into their hands... they will buy it... and they will come back... and if I can save someone a couple hundred bucks in the process... chances are they'll come back and spend that couple hundred plus some more next month.

Here is my customary answer when someone asks me what our "best" bow is (and keep in mind, I work on commission... but 2% commission isn't enough for me to sell a deaf old lady a pair of headphones) :

If you want a bow that is smooth, easy to draw and whisper quiet, then you want a Mathews.

If you want high let off, with a rock solid back wall, the option of having pretty impressive speeds, and state of the art technology, then here is a Bowtech.

If you want pure, unchecked speed, and can handle the draw cycle that speed comes from, PSE.

If you want a bow that will go to hell and back and need nothing more than a new string and a fresh pair of string leeches... Hoyt all the way. Also the place to go if a shooter likes a little heavier bow (and there are plenty of them out there).

If you want a very well made bow, but don't want to spend over $700 on a complete package, check out Parkers. Same thing for a new archer on a budget... Wildfire all the way.

I use Socratic method, and usually I can get a customer to tell me what they really want, and I can use facts to solidify why its the right choice for them.

And by the way... if you really want to know what I see more of that is just flat out BROKEN than anything else.... CROSSBOWS!!!!! Barnett is the #1 offender (big time), and sadly and suprisingly we have seen a lot of limb problems with Parker Buck Busters lately, especially the 175# but also a few 150#s.

I base a bow (for me) on who has the best deal, on the bow I like the best, at the time I decide I want a new bow.... I have been bow hunting for 13 seasons now, and have owned 6 different compound bows... never the same brand twice. I have no complaints at all, but I have no alligences to any company either.

I'm waiting to shoot the Alphamax, and waiting to see what Mathews brings out for 09.... right now... its going to be a tough call between a Drenalin and an Admiral. I shot the Captain and the SWAT today as well. The Capt was a bit too top heavy, granted its bare bow, and there is nothing I have bad to say about the SWAT at all, except that I think it should be priced about $50 lower... if it was consistant with what the Ally's sold for... it would be a big time top seller, and I think it likely will be anyway. All I have to say... its shoot the Admiral.... and you'll at least consider buying one... they are really impressive bows.

RE: Not 2 Impressed with the 09 Hoyts
 

If you wanted to be historically accurate... you'd have to call it a 7mm Rem Express ;) I enjoy researching the history and development behind cartridges, especially back before the computer and CNC era.


I know that you know what you are talkin about Mikey... and a lot of folks don't realize how very few true innovations there have been in the field of cartridge design and development. There really isn't much more that can be done... though lots of folks are trying hard.... (30 TC, 308 Marlin, the list is endless in every catagory). Most folks don't understand how they are all related, and how just a little tiny change and give you such a huge result. And also how an often superior design and superior performance, can be surpassed by solid marketing and perfect timing, as in the case of the .243 Win and the .244 Rem (later the 6mm Rem). Wild stuff really! :D

Fact is, archery technology is just about there as well. I think you'll start seeing some radical new changes coming in broadhead design, arrow manufacturing and make-up, and perhaps even some changes in what bows are made up of. But at the end of the day... you can only make an arrow go so fast and still control it and make the bow easy to shoot. I think that if you want speed..... the ability to shoot under 5gpp with High Country is about as cutting edge as it gets. They might not be whisper quiet at 70# with a 260gr arrow, but if you want to shoot over 350fps (and you guys with 27" draw lengths know you wish you could), thats your baby right there. The confidence to warranty what every other maker says will do certain voidable damage to your bow, speaks volumes.

But what SELLS bows is starting to change as well. Horsepower sold cars in the 60s and 70s... and it still sells a few today... but gas mileage is really where it is at.... Just a few short years ago... it was SPEED that sold bows.... if it wasn't IBO over 315.... it was slow... anbd the number went up 5fps every year.....then two years ago I think it finally peaked, crested and might be foaming......just look how everyone flipped at the X-Force and the 82nd.....hunting speeds in the 330s??? Its been going on for years and years... ever since the 1980s and the overdraw made hunting speeds over 275fps possible... speed sold bows, and to a certain extent, it still does.

But what is really selling bows now... is lightweight and IMAGE (BIGTIME). And you can thank Mathews for that. Thin is in... or at least light is in... You have the PSE SS, Mathews, Dren and DXT, Hoyts AlphaMax, and the BT Admiral... all under 4#s. And just look at all the advertising being down now???? You would see ads in magazines and maybe a poster here or there... but TV commercials???? Big money endorsements, contingency programs..... rallying the fan base????? All this is new ground....