The Kill - Revisited .......
10-01-2008 | 06:04 PM
#71
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Oct 1998
Posts: 18,322
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From: Hughesville, PA USA
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
ORIGINAL: HNI_Christine
Killing isn't the problem.It's the 'I hunt so I can kill stuff', 'I need to kill something' or the 'I hunt to kill not kill to hunt' attitude that is borderline.
The followingis from an anti-hunting website, it is how they try to portray us. Do you guys agree with it?
Hunters are killers, plain and simple. Let us not mince words. Hunters try to justify their violent pastime, but whatever they say to the contrary, hunting is the premeditated, cold-blooded killing of innocent animals.
The object of the hunt is to kill animals. Hunters argue that it is not just about killing. They claim that the camaraderie, nature appreciation, exercise, nature education, and so-called conservation benefits are just as important a part of the hunt as the actual killing or attempted killing of the target animal.
It is ludicrous to believe that someone who actively sets out to kill a healthy animal for fun, trophy or profit really cares about wild animals specifically or nature in general.
If you just wanted 'to kill stuff' get a job a dog pound, slaughter house or buy a barn full of chickens... but don't taint the hunt for those of us who believe it's about more than just killing.
Killing isn't the problem.It's the 'I hunt so I can kill stuff', 'I need to kill something' or the 'I hunt to kill not kill to hunt' attitude that is borderline.
The followingis from an anti-hunting website, it is how they try to portray us. Do you guys agree with it?
Hunters are killers, plain and simple. Let us not mince words. Hunters try to justify their violent pastime, but whatever they say to the contrary, hunting is the premeditated, cold-blooded killing of innocent animals.
The object of the hunt is to kill animals. Hunters argue that it is not just about killing. They claim that the camaraderie, nature appreciation, exercise, nature education, and so-called conservation benefits are just as important a part of the hunt as the actual killing or attempted killing of the target animal.
It is ludicrous to believe that someone who actively sets out to kill a healthy animal for fun, trophy or profit really cares about wild animals specifically or nature in general.
If you just wanted 'to kill stuff' get a job a dog pound, slaughter house or buy a barn full of chickens... but don't taint the hunt for those of us who believe it's about more than just killing.
10-01-2008 | 06:33 PM
#72
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,679
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From: Heaven is my home, temporarily residing in WNY :)
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
ORIGINAL: HNI_Christine
If you just wanted 'to kill stuff' get a job a dog pound, slaughter house or buy a barn full of chickens... but don't taint the hunt for those of us who believe it's about more than just killing.
If you just wanted 'to kill stuff' get a job a dog pound, slaughter house or buy a barn full of chickens... but don't taint the hunt for those of us who believe it's about more than just killing.
I love EVERYTHING to do with what it takes, or what is involved with hunting ....but the purpose remains the same ....
10-01-2008 | 06:42 PM
#73
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,434
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From:
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
ORIGINAL: PreacherTony
So you are saying that the means to an end has little to do with the end? I think we are WAYYYYY to afraid of what they think of us ...... trying to mask what hunting is, (using a weapon for the purpose of ending the life of an intended target) only causes people to think we are idiots? That is what we do .....the means have EVERYTHING to do with the end .....
I love EVERYTHING to do with what it takes, or what is involved with hunting ....but the purpose remains the same ....
ORIGINAL: HNI_Christine
If you just wanted 'to kill stuff' get a job a dog pound, slaughter house or buy a barn full of chickens... but don't taint the hunt for those of us who believe it's about more than just killing.
If you just wanted 'to kill stuff' get a job a dog pound, slaughter house or buy a barn full of chickens... but don't taint the hunt for those of us who believe it's about more than just killing.
I love EVERYTHING to do with what it takes, or what is involved with hunting ....but the purpose remains the same ....
10-01-2008 | 06:43 PM
#74
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,465
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From:
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer
Amen Christine.
ORIGINAL: HNI_Christine
but don't taint the hunt for those of us who believe it's about more than just killing.
but don't taint the hunt for those of us who believe it's about more than just killing.
Im not going to tiptoe around the subject, anyone with a brain realizes hunters kill animals. To say we hunt to kill animals, well DUH! Sure you can enjoy the actual hunt, friends, family, and everything else wonderful about hunting...but hunters set out with a goal of killing an animal, which is why we tote a weapon instead of a lense.
I agree it isnt all about the kill, not even close,but to say it has nothing to do with the kill or that the topic of killing is unacceptable is a stretch just the same as saying hunting is only about killing.
I dont disagree with your point of hunting being about more than killing, but you also cant disagree that hunting involves killing as its goal.
If anyone can provide an answer to my question in bold, I'd appreciate it. Im havin trouble seeing how people dont think hunting is about killing, in some part.
10-01-2008 | 06:45 PM
#75
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,679
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From: Heaven is my home, temporarily residing in WNY :)
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
ORIGINAL: Bowtech 360
If you think like that, I think you would find, The Prince by Machiavelli to be a very interesting read. The famous quote that he is known for is "The end justifies the Means"
ORIGINAL: PreacherTony
So you are saying that the means to an end has little to do with the end? I think we are WAYYYYY to afraid of what they think of us ...... trying to mask what hunting is, (using a weapon for the purpose of ending the life of an intended target) only causes people to think we are idiots? That is what we do .....the means have EVERYTHING to do with the end .....
I love EVERYTHING to do with what it takes, or what is involved with hunting ....but the purpose remains the same ....
ORIGINAL: HNI_Christine
If you just wanted 'to kill stuff' get a job a dog pound, slaughter house or buy a barn full of chickens... but don't taint the hunt for those of us who believe it's about more than just killing.
If you just wanted 'to kill stuff' get a job a dog pound, slaughter house or buy a barn full of chickens... but don't taint the hunt for those of us who believe it's about more than just killing.
I love EVERYTHING to do with what it takes, or what is involved with hunting ....but the purpose remains the same ....
10-01-2008 | 07:04 PM
#77
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
From: NY, Finger Lakes Area
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
I know that there is a high percentage of people each year that buy a tag and go out in the woods just to "kill" something. Some even leave the freshly killed carcass because they don't want it, they just wanted to "kill" something. They saw off the antlers for a trophy and leave the rest. This is what gives true hunters a bad name. I set out each time in the woods not to "kill" something, but to "harvest" it. Like you would harvest corn, or oats, or any crop. Hunting was originally a means to obtain food. For some that is still the mainobjective, unfortunately, for others their direction has derailed and their psychological dysfunctions have overtaken to the point where killing something is their main objective not the harvest of meat, the experience of the outdoors, or the respect for nature. Now I do not mean to offend or scold anyone for their actions, intentions, or individual feelings...but I feel that when we use the word "kill" it implies (although not always intended) that we are homicidal and angry individuals. Personally, and again I mean to offend no one this is just my opinion, I think we should all adopt the term "harvest" instead of "kill" for hunting animals. So I guess the question is where does your enjoyment come from...the fact that you just succeeded in a hard endeavor to harvest an animal and you are proud of your accomplishments and relished the experience...or the fact that a living animal is now dead and that is what you take satisfaction in, the fact that you are "better" than that animals and you are so macho for killing it that you're going to hoot, holler, scream, and dance around to show it that you are so great????????
Again, just my thoughts feel free to disagree
Again, just my thoughts feel free to disagree
10-01-2008 | 07:15 PM
#78
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,679
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From: Heaven is my home, temporarily residing in WNY :)
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
ORIGINAL: PatrickMc
I know that there is a high percentage of people each year that buy a tag and go out in the woods just to "kill" something. Some even leave the freshly killed carcass because they don't want it, they just wanted to "kill" something. They saw off the antlers for a trophy and leave the rest. This is what gives true hunters a bad name. I set out each time in the woods not to "kill" something, but to "harvest" it. Like you would harvest corn, or oats, or any crop. Hunting was originally a means to obtain food. For some that is still the mainobjective, unfortunately, for others their direction has derailed and their psychological dysfunctions have overtaken to the point where killing something is their main objective not the harvest of meat, the experience of the outdoors, or the respect for nature. Now I do not mean to offend or scold anyone for their actions, intentions, or individual feelings...but I feel that when we use the word "kill" it implies (although not always intended) that we are homicidal and angry individuals. Personally, and again I mean to offend no one this is just my opinion, I think we should all adopt the term "harvest" instead of "kill" for hunting animals. So I guess the question is where does your enjoyment come from...the fact that you just succeeded in a hard endeavor to harvest an animal and you are proud of your accomplishments and relished the experience...or the fact that a living animal is now dead and that is what you take satisfaction in, the fact that you are "better" than that animals and you are so macho for killing it that you're going to hoot, holler, scream, and dance around to show it that you are so great????????
Again, just my thoughts feel free to disagree
I know that there is a high percentage of people each year that buy a tag and go out in the woods just to "kill" something. Some even leave the freshly killed carcass because they don't want it, they just wanted to "kill" something. They saw off the antlers for a trophy and leave the rest. This is what gives true hunters a bad name. I set out each time in the woods not to "kill" something, but to "harvest" it. Like you would harvest corn, or oats, or any crop. Hunting was originally a means to obtain food. For some that is still the mainobjective, unfortunately, for others their direction has derailed and their psychological dysfunctions have overtaken to the point where killing something is their main objective not the harvest of meat, the experience of the outdoors, or the respect for nature. Now I do not mean to offend or scold anyone for their actions, intentions, or individual feelings...but I feel that when we use the word "kill" it implies (although not always intended) that we are homicidal and angry individuals. Personally, and again I mean to offend no one this is just my opinion, I think we should all adopt the term "harvest" instead of "kill" for hunting animals. So I guess the question is where does your enjoyment come from...the fact that you just succeeded in a hard endeavor to harvest an animal and you are proud of your accomplishments and relished the experience...or the fact that a living animal is now dead and that is what you take satisfaction in, the fact that you are "better" than that animals and you are so macho for killing it that you're going to hoot, holler, scream, and dance around to show it that you are so great????????
Again, just my thoughts feel free to disagree
10-01-2008 | 07:25 PM
#79
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,249
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From: Iowa (Heartland USA)
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
I personally don't believe there is one of us on here that do not get pumped when the arrow strikes the intended target whether it be a bulls-eye or a deer. Part of the enjoyment people get out of hunting is that adrenaline rush. If you don't feel that rush, why not just mail order your venison on line?Those who deny that they enjoy the taking of a deer are either being untruthful with us or themselves.
10-01-2008 | 07:30 PM
#80
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 272
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From: NY, Finger Lakes Area
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
Tony, I think you and I are on the same page here. You take an animal to eat it, as do it. You don't do it maliciously, nor do I. I don't have a problem with taking the life of an animal in order to eat it. My beef is with the people who kill an animal for the sake of killing something and then try to pass themselves off as hunters. I consider myself a hunter, as I consider you a fellow hunter. I believe that you hunt for the meat and the gratification of the experience. Taking pride in an accomplishment of what was taken is just a bonus, I don't mean that you can't celebrate or enjoy your successes. I know in all actuality we do kill every animal we take, but I just think that us real hunters kill an animal to harvest the meat, not just kill to kill.
I have read a lot of your posts Tony and I think you have a lot of good insight, I don't mean to offend you in any way. As for the politically correct thing...working for government will do that to you. lol.
I have read a lot of your posts Tony and I think you have a lot of good insight, I don't mean to offend you in any way. As for the politically correct thing...working for government will do that to you. lol.