Gray Wolf Woolens? What's the fuss all about?
08-14-2008, 08:08 AM
#81
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Gray Wolf Woolens? What's the fuss all about?
Also, it is important to understand that I have the right to think/call you a goober if you made a dumb purchase. You may not like it, but I call them like I see them. 
08-14-2008, 08:10 AM
#82
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 1,184
RE: Gray Wolf Woolens? What's the fuss all about?
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
And we reserve the right to call you a cheap-ass......we just don't exercise it.
Also, it is important to understand that I have the right to think/call you a goober if you made a dumb purchase. You may not like it, but I call them like I see them.
08-14-2008, 08:11 AM
#83
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 4,679
RE: Gray Wolf Woolens? What's the fuss all about?
ORIGINAL: robbcayman
Goober.
While you're at it I have some Enron stock I would like to sell you too.
ORIGINAL: Rick James
Just to spite this thread, this morning I called up Jeff and ordered up two sets of wolfskin pants (one in Spring Green, one in Fall Brown, both with the extra pockets, double knees, and double butt), a wolfskin jacket, and two wolfskin hats. I'll post more when I get them in my hands. [8D]
Just to spite this thread, this morning I called up Jeff and ordered up two sets of wolfskin pants (one in Spring Green, one in Fall Brown, both with the extra pockets, double knees, and double butt), a wolfskin jacket, and two wolfskin hats. I'll post more when I get them in my hands. [8D]
While you're at it I have some Enron stock I would like to sell you too.
[8D]
08-14-2008, 08:30 AM
#84
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jackson, Missouri
Posts: 7,051
RE: Gray Wolf Woolens? What's the fuss all about?
Quik, I won't disagree with a thing you said in your last paragraph:
Except for "acting like I murdered the man."
It's ok then for you to come on and misrepresent his company -- as pointed out by both Whitehorn and myself -- and cast it in a disparaging light and for me not to come on because I possess factual knowledge of both the company and his product and not set the record straight?
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with playing devil's advocate, and I totally agree. Thankfully, there was some here who could speak factually about the company, its processes and its products. But representing the underrepresented? Who would that be, Quik? Those who can't afford to pay for the quality that GWW builds into its garments? Sounds like a classic case of class envy to me. And I'm sure YOU could afford them if you chose to; that must mean your truer intentions lie along the lines of a certain political party which wins votes every four years by pointing out how well "they" have it.
True intelligence is looking at the evidence accordingly and weighing it fairly -- not opening the conversation with preconcieved notions and hidden agendas, nor is it begrudging the fact that the man has a successful company with legions of loyal customers, satisfied with both their purchases and the price they paid for it. Kid yourself or your readers if you want to, but if you were looking for real answers in your initial query you would have done as Whitehorn suggested and compared "apples to apples" and not mass-produced, made-overseas clothing lacking both the attention to detail and quality put individually into each of GWW's products, nor would you have played your "bait and switch" game with the descriptions and prices shown. Looking objectively at the evidence would have mandated you compare the clothing to like-textured fabrics with similar properties. Then, we could have agreed your premise was to uncover answers.
Or was it just laziness and you wanted me to do all that for you? If so... that's hardly me "acting like you murdered a man." It's someone with factual knowledge setting the record straight, and helping to educate the public to the truth about a company that isn't the darling of mainstream media because it sinks its profits back into its clothing and processes, not its advertising.
Greg - you're acting like I've murdered this man's entire family, poisoned his dogand tipped over his grandmother's wheelchair. Meanwhile, all I did was ask "why so damn expensive?" I feel like that's a very fair question, especially given how much we've heard about this camo (and how great it is) over the past couple years - and the sticker-shock that I got when I finally went to their site to scope it out.
Personally, I'm quite satisfied with the answers I've gotten so far. Is it enough to make me want to rush out and buy a set? No. But can I at least see why somebody else would? Sure.
If nobody ever played a little devil's advocate, we'd never get these answers, nowwould we? Part of having an actual fair & balanced conversation is exploring the unexplored and representing the underrepresented.
Personally, I'm quite satisfied with the answers I've gotten so far. Is it enough to make me want to rush out and buy a set? No. But can I at least see why somebody else would? Sure.
If nobody ever played a little devil's advocate, we'd never get these answers, nowwould we? Part of having an actual fair & balanced conversation is exploring the unexplored and representing the underrepresented.
It's ok then for you to come on and misrepresent his company -- as pointed out by both Whitehorn and myself -- and cast it in a disparaging light and for me not to come on because I possess factual knowledge of both the company and his product and not set the record straight?
If nobody ever played a little devil's advocate, we'd never get these answers, nowwould we? Part of having an actual fair & balanced conversation is exploring the unexplored and representing the underrepresented.
True intelligence is looking at the evidence accordingly and weighing it fairly -- not opening the conversation with preconcieved notions and hidden agendas, nor is it begrudging the fact that the man has a successful company with legions of loyal customers, satisfied with both their purchases and the price they paid for it. Kid yourself or your readers if you want to, but if you were looking for real answers in your initial query you would have done as Whitehorn suggested and compared "apples to apples" and not mass-produced, made-overseas clothing lacking both the attention to detail and quality put individually into each of GWW's products, nor would you have played your "bait and switch" game with the descriptions and prices shown. Looking objectively at the evidence would have mandated you compare the clothing to like-textured fabrics with similar properties. Then, we could have agreed your premise was to uncover answers.
Or was it just laziness and you wanted me to do all that for you? If so... that's hardly me "acting like you murdered a man." It's someone with factual knowledge setting the record straight, and helping to educate the public to the truth about a company that isn't the darling of mainstream media because it sinks its profits back into its clothing and processes, not its advertising.
08-14-2008, 09:09 AM
#85
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,933
RE: Gray Wolf Woolens? What's the fuss all about?
First, I would like to thank everyone on behalf of Jeff at GWW for the advertising. He will get multiple orders because of this post!
Second, someone mentioned Jeff is only after the 10% of the market. It's probably less than that. Likely, 1-2%. Very small piece of the marketplace. At the moment, Jeff can't really handle any huge increase in sales - so he is forced to stay small.
In-regard to "discounts". Well, considering GWW is one of our sponsors - I had better be able to get discounts! I don't pay to promote other companies products, which is why you don't see WKP pimping 1,001 gimmick products that don't mean squat in the grand scheme of things. If you knew how muchI've dumped into WKP over the last 2-1/2 years, you'd know what I mean. In-return for some discounts I get on products, Jeff gets exposure through our website, forum, and our videos.
My first complete (2) suits (one lined wolfskin and one unlined wolfskin) were purchased at full retail price, many years ago now, long before I had a relationship with Jeff. Like most of the products I've become involved with at one point or another - I was originally a customer. Sometimes I feel like people forget that I'm just a bowhunter. I buy and use what works, not what company is willing to shell out $$$ for sponsorship.
Again, thank you all for helping give Jeff and GWW the attention they deserve!
Second, someone mentioned Jeff is only after the 10% of the market. It's probably less than that. Likely, 1-2%. Very small piece of the marketplace. At the moment, Jeff can't really handle any huge increase in sales - so he is forced to stay small.
In-regard to "discounts". Well, considering GWW is one of our sponsors - I had better be able to get discounts! I don't pay to promote other companies products, which is why you don't see WKP pimping 1,001 gimmick products that don't mean squat in the grand scheme of things. If you knew how muchI've dumped into WKP over the last 2-1/2 years, you'd know what I mean. In-return for some discounts I get on products, Jeff gets exposure through our website, forum, and our videos.
My first complete (2) suits (one lined wolfskin and one unlined wolfskin) were purchased at full retail price, many years ago now, long before I had a relationship with Jeff. Like most of the products I've become involved with at one point or another - I was originally a customer. Sometimes I feel like people forget that I'm just a bowhunter. I buy and use what works, not what company is willing to shell out $$$ for sponsorship.
Again, thank you all for helping give Jeff and GWW the attention they deserve!
08-14-2008, 09:14 AM
#86
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,716
RE: Gray Wolf Woolens? What's the fuss all about?
Greg:I didn't misrepresent anything. Icited actual prices taken from his site andused actual stock photos. I cited the fabric description from the site, verbatim, andcompared it to a burr-resistant warp-knit unlined jacket that I bought last year. That's as factual as it canget from my end(short of shelling out a few hundred dollars and buying a set).
Simply put,"wolfskin" is a warp-knit polyesterfabric, which is not exclusive to GWW (which is contrary to my previous belief). In fact, polyester warp knit is available through plenty of other (less expensive) avenues. Obviously, when Iunload these findingson a faithful GWW customer, it's received about as well asaFleets enema- but it's undeniably true.
The starting point for this entire discussion is what was patently obvious to everyonefrom the start:the prices are high. Myqueryhas always beenwhether thequality was commensurate with the price - and I feel like we've taken some steps to answer that question, both pro and con.
In all honesty "apples-to-apples" is easier said than done in this particular situation - becausewe're talking about a custom-made product. Furthermore, I used the $300 price because if I were ordering, I'd have unknowingly ordered the "lined" pants (and probably sweated to death in them). Honest mistake.But if money were no object, and I was to order a pair today,I'd order the double-knee, double-butt, unlined, with cargo pockets and scentlok. $309.95.
Hey, if you want to support a great small company, buy it from Gray Wolf.However, if you want a similar product at a lower price, you do have other options. I think Gray Wolf sells a great product - just a little too expensive for me (and most other Average Joes)to buy right now.
This isn't "class envy," Greg. This is just being fair and balanced.
If I had a dollar for everytime I've heard someone on this site tout the quality, workmanship and durability of Gray Wolf clothing, I'd be a wealthy man. But on the other hand, I can count on one hand (one finger, actually)the number of times anyone has said "hey, wait a minute...is it really worth the hefty price?"
That's representing the underrepresented.
Todd: A very smart man once told me "No publicity is bad publicity." Probably the best quote I've ever heard.
Simply put,"wolfskin" is a warp-knit polyesterfabric, which is not exclusive to GWW (which is contrary to my previous belief). In fact, polyester warp knit is available through plenty of other (less expensive) avenues. Obviously, when Iunload these findingson a faithful GWW customer, it's received about as well asaFleets enema- but it's undeniably true.
The starting point for this entire discussion is what was patently obvious to everyonefrom the start:the prices are high. Myqueryhas always beenwhether thequality was commensurate with the price - and I feel like we've taken some steps to answer that question, both pro and con.
In all honesty "apples-to-apples" is easier said than done in this particular situation - becausewe're talking about a custom-made product. Furthermore, I used the $300 price because if I were ordering, I'd have unknowingly ordered the "lined" pants (and probably sweated to death in them). Honest mistake.But if money were no object, and I was to order a pair today,I'd order the double-knee, double-butt, unlined, with cargo pockets and scentlok. $309.95.
Hey, if you want to support a great small company, buy it from Gray Wolf.However, if you want a similar product at a lower price, you do have other options. I think Gray Wolf sells a great product - just a little too expensive for me (and most other Average Joes)to buy right now.
This isn't "class envy," Greg. This is just being fair and balanced.
If I had a dollar for everytime I've heard someone on this site tout the quality, workmanship and durability of Gray Wolf clothing, I'd be a wealthy man. But on the other hand, I can count on one hand (one finger, actually)the number of times anyone has said "hey, wait a minute...is it really worth the hefty price?"
That's representing the underrepresented.
Todd: A very smart man once told me "No publicity is bad publicity." Probably the best quote I've ever heard.
08-14-2008, 09:23 AM
#87
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,933
RE: Gray Wolf Woolens? What's the fuss all about?
You got that right! It's amazing how quickly these posts turn into orders. One day I can remember WKP was getting slammed on a website, and it was just those types of guys.
One way or another, the orders started piling in!
As hunters, we are passionate (for or against) about many things! Gear is one of my favorite aspects of the sport, just love the stuf. So - it's not a surprise that we get so into these product discussions! It's all in good fun I think, and for the most part, no one is really slamming "GWW", some guys just won't pay that much. I totally understand, my father is the same way!
One way or another, the orders started piling in!
As hunters, we are passionate (for or against) about many things! Gear is one of my favorite aspects of the sport, just love the stuf. So - it's not a surprise that we get so into these product discussions! It's all in good fun I think, and for the most part, no one is really slamming "GWW", some guys just won't pay that much. I totally understand, my father is the same way!
08-14-2008, 09:31 AM
#88
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,716
RE: Gray Wolf Woolens? What's the fuss all about?
This will all be an afterthought tomorrow, when we all find out for sure whether they found a real bigfoot in the swamps of the Georgia outback.
http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=7039
If it's true, I advise all of you to buy stock in Smith & Wesson.
http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=7039
If it's true, I advise all of you to buy stock in Smith & Wesson.
08-14-2008, 10:30 AM
#89
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Gray Wolf Woolens? What's the fuss all about?
Quik.....
Based on no media sightings, lately.....my guess is that Rosie O'Donnell went into the woods.....ate a few deer...and spontaneously combusted.
More to follow.......
Based on no media sightings, lately.....my guess is that Rosie O'Donnell went into the woods.....ate a few deer...and spontaneously combusted.
More to follow.......
08-14-2008, 01:37 PM
#90
Site Bouncer
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,099
RE: Gray Wolf Woolens? What's the fuss all about?
Interesting post to say the least....
I think it all boils down to what someone is willing to pay to participate in a pastime/sport....Not necessarily what they can afford, just what their willing to pay.
I have absolutely no first hand knowledge of Gray Wolf Woolens nor do I know how my own camo was made (the type of stitching and so forth). I feel way too much emphasis it put on camo clothing....WAY TOO MUCH! Therefore, for me I'm not willing to pay any more than I have to to get quality constructed clothes.A trip down to the local Army Navy Surplus store will get me double stitched, two layered (knees, elbows, and butt) clothing for right around $35.00 for either the shirt or pants...Yep about $70.00 for a complete outfit. It comes in so many different camo patters you'd be hard pressed not to find one that will work. This stuff lasts for years.......I still have pants I purchased over 20 years ago...still wear them. In all honesty I'm probably set for the rest of my life as far as hunting pants and shirts go. Along with my BDU's I have a couple waterproofjackets and bibs and assorted fleece for layering. I can probably see purchasing another waterproof jacket or bibsin the future but won't until mine are no longer "water proof" but that's about it.
I don't know how some of you guys go through so much camo just sitting in a tree? Like I said my pants and shirts have held up well through years of hunting many different animals. Lots of walking, crawling, hiking, camping (yep I wear my hunting clothes for those activities as well) I've put that stuff through hell and back. But what do you expect from genuine USGI stuff made right here in the USA!
I flip through the pages of the Cabala's books and laugh at some of the prices for hunting clothes, no way in the world I'm gong to spend that kinda money for something that will not help me kill an animal any more that Army BDU's will...Just my opinion.
Is GWW better??? maybe...but no one will ever convince me it's worth putting out that kinda money...not for clothes. Not when I can buy USGI made in the USA stuff that will probably out last it.
I think it all boils down to what someone is willing to pay to participate in a pastime/sport....Not necessarily what they can afford, just what their willing to pay.
I have absolutely no first hand knowledge of Gray Wolf Woolens nor do I know how my own camo was made (the type of stitching and so forth). I feel way too much emphasis it put on camo clothing....WAY TOO MUCH! Therefore, for me I'm not willing to pay any more than I have to to get quality constructed clothes.A trip down to the local Army Navy Surplus store will get me double stitched, two layered (knees, elbows, and butt) clothing for right around $35.00 for either the shirt or pants...Yep about $70.00 for a complete outfit. It comes in so many different camo patters you'd be hard pressed not to find one that will work. This stuff lasts for years.......I still have pants I purchased over 20 years ago...still wear them. In all honesty I'm probably set for the rest of my life as far as hunting pants and shirts go. Along with my BDU's I have a couple waterproofjackets and bibs and assorted fleece for layering. I can probably see purchasing another waterproof jacket or bibsin the future but won't until mine are no longer "water proof" but that's about it.
I don't know how some of you guys go through so much camo just sitting in a tree? Like I said my pants and shirts have held up well through years of hunting many different animals. Lots of walking, crawling, hiking, camping (yep I wear my hunting clothes for those activities as well) I've put that stuff through hell and back. But what do you expect from genuine USGI stuff made right here in the USA!
I flip through the pages of the Cabala's books and laugh at some of the prices for hunting clothes, no way in the world I'm gong to spend that kinda money for something that will not help me kill an animal any more that Army BDU's will...Just my opinion.
Is GWW better??? maybe...but no one will ever convince me it's worth putting out that kinda money...not for clothes. Not when I can buy USGI made in the USA stuff that will probably out last it.
