Elephants
08-03-2008, 06:50 AM
#31
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Erie, Colorado
Posts: 1,530
RE: Elephants
How easy would it be to substitute the word "elk" with "elephant"? Read on:
SEQUIM, Wash. (AP) - Tired of dealing with an elk herd that roams around this small Olympic Peninsula town - sometimes leaving destruction in its wake - state officials and some residents are pushing the idea of building a multimillion dollar fence (something they have already done in parts ofAfrica)to keep the big animals out.
About 60 Roosevelt elk - the largest kind - live around Sequim, a scenic community popular with tourists.
The animals have become part of the town's picturesque landscape, with the herd often grazing in hills overlooking the town. But the elk also have been known to damage crops of nearby farmers (and many of the farmers as well-remember substitute elk with elephant. Feel free to Google "elephant kills farmer").
"They are like tanks," resident Roger Blume said at a town meeting Wednesday. "They leave huge destruction in their wake ... and they are not a wild herd" anymore.
It cost around $100,000 a year in staff and other expenses to manage the herd, said Jack Smith, a regional manager for the state Department of Fish and Wildlife. The state and the Jamestown S'Klallam Tribe manage the herd. State officials have begun leading the idea of the fence.
Cost estimates range from $1.5 million to $4 million, depending on length, and purchases of private property. The fence could be between 3 and 9 miles long, designed to keep the elk south of U.S. Highway 101.
State and town officials discussed the proposal with about 40 residents at the town meeting. Not everyone is sold on the idea.
"We can't put a fence across the Peninsula," Sequim Councilwoman Susan Lorenzen said. "They're going to get out somehow."
Instead of sinking millions of dollars into a fence, Lorenzen said, "We could protect the crops somehow. We could reimburse the farmers that have crop damage and call it a day."
The elk have been an issue for years.
The herd's current population is down from about 130 five years ago. Management techniques used by the state and tribe have included issuing more hunting permits and relocation of some of the animals, such as the 17 moved east to the Dosewallips area in 1995.
In 2006, the state and tribe proposed moving the entire herd, but the outcry from residents quickly killed the plan. Last year, former Mayor Walt Schubert suggested thinning the local elk herd and giving the meat to food banks; that idea wasn't popular either.
Frank Roach, who likes to watch the elk herd visit his nearby farm, suggested a different perspective.
"Should we have fenced out developers?" he asked, to laughter and applause.
"We've got to take a look at what we're doing in the whole area," Roach said. "I urge you to stop and think about good management," of growth, water and wildlife, "so we can all live together."
I say give us Bow Hunters an Open Season and No Limit! I would waste a week of my vacation hunting down those trouble makers and I would even donate 1/2 of the meat from the animals to the Food Banks to feed the needy!
I like this one: http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_2003426,00.html
And they say elephants can't learn new tricks. They just stand there now while being stoned!
SEQUIM, Wash. (AP) - Tired of dealing with an elk herd that roams around this small Olympic Peninsula town - sometimes leaving destruction in its wake - state officials and some residents are pushing the idea of building a multimillion dollar fence (something they have already done in parts ofAfrica)to keep the big animals out.
About 60 Roosevelt elk - the largest kind - live around Sequim, a scenic community popular with tourists.
The animals have become part of the town's picturesque landscape, with the herd often grazing in hills overlooking the town. But the elk also have been known to damage crops of nearby farmers (and many of the farmers as well-remember substitute elk with elephant. Feel free to Google "elephant kills farmer").
"They are like tanks," resident Roger Blume said at a town meeting Wednesday. "They leave huge destruction in their wake ... and they are not a wild herd" anymore.
It cost around $100,000 a year in staff and other expenses to manage the herd, said Jack Smith, a regional manager for the state Department of Fish and Wildlife. The state and the Jamestown S'Klallam Tribe manage the herd. State officials have begun leading the idea of the fence.
Cost estimates range from $1.5 million to $4 million, depending on length, and purchases of private property. The fence could be between 3 and 9 miles long, designed to keep the elk south of U.S. Highway 101.
State and town officials discussed the proposal with about 40 residents at the town meeting. Not everyone is sold on the idea.
"We can't put a fence across the Peninsula," Sequim Councilwoman Susan Lorenzen said. "They're going to get out somehow."
Instead of sinking millions of dollars into a fence, Lorenzen said, "We could protect the crops somehow. We could reimburse the farmers that have crop damage and call it a day."
The elk have been an issue for years.
The herd's current population is down from about 130 five years ago. Management techniques used by the state and tribe have included issuing more hunting permits and relocation of some of the animals, such as the 17 moved east to the Dosewallips area in 1995.
In 2006, the state and tribe proposed moving the entire herd, but the outcry from residents quickly killed the plan. Last year, former Mayor Walt Schubert suggested thinning the local elk herd and giving the meat to food banks; that idea wasn't popular either.
Frank Roach, who likes to watch the elk herd visit his nearby farm, suggested a different perspective.
"Should we have fenced out developers?" he asked, to laughter and applause.
"We've got to take a look at what we're doing in the whole area," Roach said. "I urge you to stop and think about good management," of growth, water and wildlife, "so we can all live together."
I say give us Bow Hunters an Open Season and No Limit! I would waste a week of my vacation hunting down those trouble makers and I would even donate 1/2 of the meat from the animals to the Food Banks to feed the needy!
I like this one: http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_2003426,00.html
And they say elephants can't learn new tricks. They just stand there now while being stoned!
08-03-2008, 07:36 AM
#32
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 2,531
RE: Elephants
I stayed out to this point, and haven't read the whole thread, but based on what I've heard elsewhere, including the opinions of a couple of PH's in Africa, I'm not real sure that archery gear is the best option for elephants. Then again it may not be the best option for MANY animals, however, MOST animals can be sufficiently mortally wounded resulting in quick, humane kills with archery gear as long as it is specifically designed/tailored to the animal being hunted. Elephants however becomes a bit more difficult than say giraffe or even water buffalo merely because of their size.
Howard Hill DID IT, but he also was shooting a SPEAR more or less at the elephants he killed. His BH alone I believe weighed over 2# (1700grains is actually about 2.4 POUNDS!!!!) and I'd have to believe the "arrow" was very likely travelling at a very LOW velocity, I'd bet under 100fps if I were a betting man, but certainly MOMENTUM would've been pretty significant with such and arrow. But Howard Hill was a true, genuine, "One of a kind!!!" Pete Shepley did it, twice, both times the animals travelled significant distances, one, the first, reported to have gone between 5 and 6 miles before it finally died. Sorry, but if I put a "good" shot on an animal and it travels that far before finally dying, I'm questioning the lethality and how HUMANE my equipment choice is. While certainly the population of elephants NEEDS to be hunted to keep it in check, and the African villages benefit greatly from these "hunts (also heard both PH's elsewhere say there really isn't much "hunt" to and elephant "hunt.")," I'm not 100% sure I like the idea of hunting elephants with archery equipment.
Now this isn't a PETA stance by any means, for those who want to try and jump on that bandwagon, it's a stance developed from the standpoint that if we aren't humanely killing the animals we hunt, we're going to be MORE likely to be getting more PETA attacks. Pete Shepley should've been smart enough to edit out some video and not mention that the elephant he killed went 5-6miles, and he shouldn't have thrown a fit like a little kid when the PH wanted to put a finisher bullet in "his" elephant either, but he did. Pete is known to push the limit, and he IS a great archer, but the elephant fiasco and his "86yd shot on a walking Mule Deer," are the type of things that do not do us, as hunters, any favors in the eyes of ARA, and may even sway a few fence-riding opinions against us.
Whatever we do or say as hunters is, sometimes unfortunately, representative of ALL hunters in the eyes of the non-hunters.
Howard Hill DID IT, but he also was shooting a SPEAR more or less at the elephants he killed. His BH alone I believe weighed over 2# (1700grains is actually about 2.4 POUNDS!!!!) and I'd have to believe the "arrow" was very likely travelling at a very LOW velocity, I'd bet under 100fps if I were a betting man, but certainly MOMENTUM would've been pretty significant with such and arrow. But Howard Hill was a true, genuine, "One of a kind!!!" Pete Shepley did it, twice, both times the animals travelled significant distances, one, the first, reported to have gone between 5 and 6 miles before it finally died. Sorry, but if I put a "good" shot on an animal and it travels that far before finally dying, I'm questioning the lethality and how HUMANE my equipment choice is. While certainly the population of elephants NEEDS to be hunted to keep it in check, and the African villages benefit greatly from these "hunts (also heard both PH's elsewhere say there really isn't much "hunt" to and elephant "hunt.")," I'm not 100% sure I like the idea of hunting elephants with archery equipment.
Now this isn't a PETA stance by any means, for those who want to try and jump on that bandwagon, it's a stance developed from the standpoint that if we aren't humanely killing the animals we hunt, we're going to be MORE likely to be getting more PETA attacks. Pete Shepley should've been smart enough to edit out some video and not mention that the elephant he killed went 5-6miles, and he shouldn't have thrown a fit like a little kid when the PH wanted to put a finisher bullet in "his" elephant either, but he did. Pete is known to push the limit, and he IS a great archer, but the elephant fiasco and his "86yd shot on a walking Mule Deer," are the type of things that do not do us, as hunters, any favors in the eyes of ARA, and may even sway a few fence-riding opinions against us.
Whatever we do or say as hunters is, sometimes unfortunately, representative of ALL hunters in the eyes of the non-hunters.
08-03-2008, 09:08 AM
#33
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Erie, Colorado
Posts: 1,530
RE: Elephants
Doug,
Teressa Groenewald (A woman)did it with a single arrow and the bull traveled 500 yards before expiring... Not much of a hunt you say? It took her 8-9 days to get hers...
The problem as I see it, you cite onecase where a man did kill an elephant (with/without an arrow-based upon opinion), and another where a man had a bad experience killinghis first of two. I, on the other hand,can cite manymore where elephants were kill effectivelywith no issues whatsoever (Richardo Longloria comes to mind, as well as Gary Bogner. Both are superior archers, not unlike Howard Hill, and both areambassadors of the sport-they've learned to check their egos). So then, there are indeed many to prove your point otherwise.Without knowing all the facts, can you honestly say you were thereto witnessed Pete's "good" shot? Where exactly did he hit the mammoth? Is it possible he hit it back alittle? Things happen... on those things big or small. Seriously, how many deer/bear/elk/moose/antelope/boar to you think have been hit and were recovered great distances from the shot? Do you question the lethality andyour equipment choice here? Do we ban a proven tool because things happen?
I would love the opportunity to shoot my 84 lb X-Force through an elephant. I'm confident the bow can handle the task. I'm confident I can handle the task! I am also responcible enough to finish the job with a rifle is things go wrong. I would exercise this samerespect for any animal I hunt! Again, I wish I had ten dollars for everytime someone told me I couldn't do it with archery gear. For the record, I hate hearsay. A PH, on my last trip,told me I would be lucky if I shot one animals with my bow. I came home with eight.This "professional"obviously knew more about bow hunting than me...
Teressa Groenewald (A woman)did it with a single arrow and the bull traveled 500 yards before expiring... Not much of a hunt you say? It took her 8-9 days to get hers...
The problem as I see it, you cite onecase where a man did kill an elephant (with/without an arrow-based upon opinion), and another where a man had a bad experience killinghis first of two. I, on the other hand,can cite manymore where elephants were kill effectivelywith no issues whatsoever (Richardo Longloria comes to mind, as well as Gary Bogner. Both are superior archers, not unlike Howard Hill, and both areambassadors of the sport-they've learned to check their egos). So then, there are indeed many to prove your point otherwise.Without knowing all the facts, can you honestly say you were thereto witnessed Pete's "good" shot? Where exactly did he hit the mammoth? Is it possible he hit it back alittle? Things happen... on those things big or small. Seriously, how many deer/bear/elk/moose/antelope/boar to you think have been hit and were recovered great distances from the shot? Do you question the lethality andyour equipment choice here? Do we ban a proven tool because things happen?
I would love the opportunity to shoot my 84 lb X-Force through an elephant. I'm confident the bow can handle the task. I'm confident I can handle the task! I am also responcible enough to finish the job with a rifle is things go wrong. I would exercise this samerespect for any animal I hunt! Again, I wish I had ten dollars for everytime someone told me I couldn't do it with archery gear. For the record, I hate hearsay. A PH, on my last trip,told me I would be lucky if I shot one animals with my bow. I came home with eight.This "professional"obviously knew more about bow hunting than me...
08-03-2008, 12:51 PM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 2,531
RE: Elephants
ORIGINAL: iamyourhuckleberry
Doug,
Teressa Groenewald (A woman)did it with a single arrow and the bull traveled 500 yards before expiring... Not much of a hunt you say? It took her 8-9 days to get hers...
The problem as I see it, you cite onecase where a man did kill an elephant (with/without an arrow-based upon opinion), and another where a man had a bad experience killinghis first of two. I, on the other hand,can cite manymore where elephants were kill effectivelywith no issues whatsoever (Richardo Longloria comes to mind, as well as Gary Bogner. Both are superior archers, not unlike Howard Hill, and both areambassadors of the sport-they've learned to check their egos). So then, there are indeed many to prove your point otherwise.Without knowing all the facts, can you honestly say you were thereto witnessed Pete's "good" shot? Where exactly did he hit the mammoth? Is it possible he hit it back alittle? Things happen... on those things big or small. Seriously, how many deer/bear/elk/moose/antelope/boar to you think have been hit and were recovered great distances from the shot? Do you question the lethality andyour equipment choice here? Do we ban a proven tool because things happen?
I would love the opportunity to shoot my 84 lb X-Force through an elephant. I'm confident the bow can handle the task. I'm confident I can handle the task! I am also responcible enough to finish the job with a rifle is things go wrong. I would exercise this samerespect for any animal I hunt! Again, I wish I had ten dollars for everytime someone told me I couldn't do it with archery gear. For the record, I hate hearsay. A PH, on my last trip,told me I would be lucky if I shot one animals with my bow. I came home with eight.This "professional"obviously knew more about bow hunting than me...
Doug,
Teressa Groenewald (A woman)did it with a single arrow and the bull traveled 500 yards before expiring... Not much of a hunt you say? It took her 8-9 days to get hers...
The problem as I see it, you cite onecase where a man did kill an elephant (with/without an arrow-based upon opinion), and another where a man had a bad experience killinghis first of two. I, on the other hand,can cite manymore where elephants were kill effectivelywith no issues whatsoever (Richardo Longloria comes to mind, as well as Gary Bogner. Both are superior archers, not unlike Howard Hill, and both areambassadors of the sport-they've learned to check their egos). So then, there are indeed many to prove your point otherwise.Without knowing all the facts, can you honestly say you were thereto witnessed Pete's "good" shot? Where exactly did he hit the mammoth? Is it possible he hit it back alittle? Things happen... on those things big or small. Seriously, how many deer/bear/elk/moose/antelope/boar to you think have been hit and were recovered great distances from the shot? Do you question the lethality andyour equipment choice here? Do we ban a proven tool because things happen?
I would love the opportunity to shoot my 84 lb X-Force through an elephant. I'm confident the bow can handle the task. I'm confident I can handle the task! I am also responcible enough to finish the job with a rifle is things go wrong. I would exercise this samerespect for any animal I hunt! Again, I wish I had ten dollars for everytime someone told me I couldn't do it with archery gear. For the record, I hate hearsay. A PH, on my last trip,told me I would be lucky if I shot one animals with my bow. I came home with eight.This "professional"obviously knew more about bow hunting than me...
Nah, I wouldn't think so, not on here, maybe on reefer.com, but not here.
Bill, William, ????
Not sure, but I'm not saying it cannot be done, but I am saying that it's not going to be an easy task, and if we feel we need a rifle for back-up in case things go awry, then maybe we just need to use a rifle in the first place. I've never felt like I would need a rifle/pistol etc, for any deer or elk I went after, though I did carry a pistol in bear country in CO, just in case I needed it, however, I'm not really sure I'd ever been able to draw it and shoot it had a bear fancied me anyhow knowing how quietly and QUICKLY they can move.
I am aware of the lady that killed and elephant with an 84# X-Force, but again, we're still talking a superior archer to most, and a 500yd recovery is a LONG ways. And as I understand it her shot was precisely WHERE it was supposed to be. No doubt, it CAN be done, but at what cost to the image of hunting are people doing it?????
As for how much of a hunt, I'm just stating what I'd heard, as I've never hunted them myself. Then again, I've heard the same thing about Buffalo (aka American Bison), and that doesn't stop me from having the desire to hunt one. As I said, I understand that "certainly the population of elephants NEEDS to be hunted to keep it in check," but I'm just not certain that archery equipment is the best choice.
08-03-2008, 03:10 PM
#35
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Erie, Colorado
Posts: 1,530
RE: Elephants
Doug,
Will is fine...
If your were to participate in an archery only season here in the states, I'm pretty sure every state wouldconvict you for using afirearm to finish an animal. So the"I've never felt like I would need a rifle/pistol etc, for any deer or elk I went after"is a mute point isn't it? That's not the case elsewhere around the world. Especially, when drawing blood means drawing your wallet. My first effort would be to kill the elephant (or any game animal)with a bow-getting in as many arrows as needed. I guess that's what us bowhunters do. In the event things did go arwy, I would not hesitate to finish the job with whatever means-providing those means were legal.
So what you're say is that this lady who was more than capable, and proved it, is costing us? Gary Bogner was capable andproved it. Richardo Longloria... proved it. Howard Hill...proved it! The list is long! Each one is/was a "superior archer". They are/were all good indians! They all had the proper equipment. They all finished the task and more than a few benefited from it.
I would think a person like you (if your are truly a bow hunter) would look atindividuals like those listed abovefor the imageyou put forth to the public. Iwould also hope you give the individual the benefit of the doubt. I would hate to see your son or daughter, althought capable, void of the opportunity simply because you (among others) felt it couldn't be done.
500 yards is nothing for a animal with a slow heart rate. Heck, I've had elk run a mile after a perfect double lunger. So no, 500 yards is not a long way.
I sort ofcompare hunting elephants with a bow to driving an automobile on the highway. Both can be done. They both have their risks. If you're stupid, either you or someone else is going to get killed. Many of us are capable...
That's the hearsay I despise!
Peace.
Will is fine...
If your were to participate in an archery only season here in the states, I'm pretty sure every state wouldconvict you for using afirearm to finish an animal. So the"I've never felt like I would need a rifle/pistol etc, for any deer or elk I went after"is a mute point isn't it? That's not the case elsewhere around the world. Especially, when drawing blood means drawing your wallet. My first effort would be to kill the elephant (or any game animal)with a bow-getting in as many arrows as needed. I guess that's what us bowhunters do. In the event things did go arwy, I would not hesitate to finish the job with whatever means-providing those means were legal.
but at what cost to the image of hunting are people doing it?????
I would think a person like you (if your are truly a bow hunter) would look atindividuals like those listed abovefor the imageyou put forth to the public. Iwould also hope you give the individual the benefit of the doubt. I would hate to see your son or daughter, althought capable, void of the opportunity simply because you (among others) felt it couldn't be done.
500 yards is nothing for a animal with a slow heart rate. Heck, I've had elk run a mile after a perfect double lunger. So no, 500 yards is not a long way.
I sort ofcompare hunting elephants with a bow to driving an automobile on the highway. Both can be done. They both have their risks. If you're stupid, either you or someone else is going to get killed. Many of us are capable...
As for how much of a hunt, I'm just stating what I'd heard, as I've never hunted them myself.
Peace.
08-04-2008, 10:09 AM
#37
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 753
RE: Elephants
iamyourhuckleberry, I have read (and admired) your posts on here about your hunts. And I think I would rather have you culling the herds of these elephants, when that is necessary, than most anyone I can think of (not that I have any input or expertise on such matters).
And, based on your success and the experiences you have shared, I am sure that you have many more facts on elephants and many other animals than most of these forums. I am equally sure that you do not know any better than anyone else here, as to whether or not an elephant has a conscience or possesses consciousness. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t. Maybe it’s just a matter of definition of what consciousness is or what level of awareness constitutes the critical threshold to meet each of our individual definitions of consciousness.
Personally, I think this is a personal issue. I think each of us will have our own reckoning with whatever intelligence (I call it God) that created the world and we each need to be at peace with the decisions we individually have made.
I started this thread because I think elephants are amazing animals and thought that bowhunters would appreciate the beauty and intelligence of these animals, whether or not they decided to hunt one. Also, my sister has had some interaction with them (she works at the National Zoo in DC), and some of her stories are really thought-provoking (and while she loves nature, she’s not a PETA-type...she wants me to hunt the deer that feed in her garden). And she knows that elephants sometimes need to be culled. Some people have interpreted this thread as an attempt to stop people from legally hunting elephants. It isn’t. It needs to be done in some circumstances. Based on your articulate and thoughtfully written posts about your hunts, I hope it is someone like you who is doing it, iamyourhuckleberry.
And, based on your success and the experiences you have shared, I am sure that you have many more facts on elephants and many other animals than most of these forums. I am equally sure that you do not know any better than anyone else here, as to whether or not an elephant has a conscience or possesses consciousness. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t. Maybe it’s just a matter of definition of what consciousness is or what level of awareness constitutes the critical threshold to meet each of our individual definitions of consciousness.
Personally, I think this is a personal issue. I think each of us will have our own reckoning with whatever intelligence (I call it God) that created the world and we each need to be at peace with the decisions we individually have made.
I started this thread because I think elephants are amazing animals and thought that bowhunters would appreciate the beauty and intelligence of these animals, whether or not they decided to hunt one. Also, my sister has had some interaction with them (she works at the National Zoo in DC), and some of her stories are really thought-provoking (and while she loves nature, she’s not a PETA-type...she wants me to hunt the deer that feed in her garden). And she knows that elephants sometimes need to be culled. Some people have interpreted this thread as an attempt to stop people from legally hunting elephants. It isn’t. It needs to be done in some circumstances. Based on your articulate and thoughtfully written posts about your hunts, I hope it is someone like you who is doing it, iamyourhuckleberry.
08-04-2008, 11:33 AM
#38
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan/Ohio
Posts: 11,682
RE: Elephants
ORIGINAL: MountainHunter
iamyourhuckleberry, I have read (and admired) your posts on here about your hunts. And I think I would rather have you culling the herds of these elephants, when that is necessary, than most anyone I can think of (not that I have any input or expertise on such matters).
And, based on your success and the experiences you have shared, I am sure that you have many more facts on elephants and many other animals than most of these forums. I am equally sure that you do not know any better than anyone else here, as to whether or not an elephant has a conscience or possesses consciousness. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t. Maybe it’s just a matter of definition of what consciousness is or what level of awareness constitutes the critical threshold to meet each of our individual definitions of consciousness.
Personally, I think this is a personal issue. I think each of us will have our own reckoning with whatever intelligence (I call it God) that created the world and we each need to be at peace with the decisions we individually have made.
I started this thread because I think elephants are amazing animals and thought that bowhunters would appreciate the beauty and intelligence of these animals, whether or not they decided to hunt one. Also, my sister has had some interaction with them (she works at the National Zoo in DC), and some of her stories are really thought-provoking (and while she loves nature, she’s not a PETA-type...she wants me to hunt the deer that feed in her garden). And she knows that elephants sometimes need to be culled. Some people have interpreted this thread as an attempt to stop people from legally hunting elephants. It isn’t. It needs to be done in some circumstances. Based on your articulate and thoughtfully written posts about your hunts, I hope it is someone like you who is doing it, iamyourhuckleberry.
iamyourhuckleberry, I have read (and admired) your posts on here about your hunts. And I think I would rather have you culling the herds of these elephants, when that is necessary, than most anyone I can think of (not that I have any input or expertise on such matters).
And, based on your success and the experiences you have shared, I am sure that you have many more facts on elephants and many other animals than most of these forums. I am equally sure that you do not know any better than anyone else here, as to whether or not an elephant has a conscience or possesses consciousness. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t. Maybe it’s just a matter of definition of what consciousness is or what level of awareness constitutes the critical threshold to meet each of our individual definitions of consciousness.
Personally, I think this is a personal issue. I think each of us will have our own reckoning with whatever intelligence (I call it God) that created the world and we each need to be at peace with the decisions we individually have made.
I started this thread because I think elephants are amazing animals and thought that bowhunters would appreciate the beauty and intelligence of these animals, whether or not they decided to hunt one. Also, my sister has had some interaction with them (she works at the National Zoo in DC), and some of her stories are really thought-provoking (and while she loves nature, she’s not a PETA-type...she wants me to hunt the deer that feed in her garden). And she knows that elephants sometimes need to be culled. Some people have interpreted this thread as an attempt to stop people from legally hunting elephants. It isn’t. It needs to be done in some circumstances. Based on your articulate and thoughtfully written posts about your hunts, I hope it is someone like you who is doing it, iamyourhuckleberry.
It's has and always be about survival in the wild.
08-04-2008, 06:30 PM
#39
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: England , UK
Posts: 1,089
RE: Elephants
ORIGINAL: MountainHunter
iamyourhuckleberry, I have read (and admired) your posts on here about your hunts. And I think I would rather have you culling the herds of these elephants, when that is necessary, than most anyone I can think of (not that I have any input or expertise on such matters).
And, based on your success and the experiences you have shared, I am sure that you have many more facts on elephants and many other animals than most of these forums. I am equally sure that you do not know any better than anyone else here, as to whether or not an elephant has a conscience or possesses consciousness. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t. Maybe it’s just a matter of definition of what consciousness is or what level of awareness constitutes the critical threshold to meet each of our individual definitions of consciousness.
Personally, I think this is a personal issue. I think each of us will have our own reckoning with whatever intelligence (I call it God) that created the world and we each need to be at peace with the decisions we individually have made.
I started this thread because I think elephants are amazing animals and thought that bowhunters would appreciate the beauty and intelligence of these animals, whether or not they decided to hunt one. Also, my sister has had some interaction with them (she works at the National Zoo in DC), and some of her stories are really thought-provoking (and while she loves nature, she’s not a PETA-type...she wants me to hunt the deer that feed in her garden). And she knows that elephants sometimes need to be culled. Some people have interpreted this thread as an attempt to stop people from legally hunting elephants. It isn’t. It needs to be done in some circumstances. Based on your articulate and thoughtfully written posts about your hunts, I hope it is someone like you who is doing it, iamyourhuckleberry.
iamyourhuckleberry, I have read (and admired) your posts on here about your hunts. And I think I would rather have you culling the herds of these elephants, when that is necessary, than most anyone I can think of (not that I have any input or expertise on such matters).
And, based on your success and the experiences you have shared, I am sure that you have many more facts on elephants and many other animals than most of these forums. I am equally sure that you do not know any better than anyone else here, as to whether or not an elephant has a conscience or possesses consciousness. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t. Maybe it’s just a matter of definition of what consciousness is or what level of awareness constitutes the critical threshold to meet each of our individual definitions of consciousness.
Personally, I think this is a personal issue. I think each of us will have our own reckoning with whatever intelligence (I call it God) that created the world and we each need to be at peace with the decisions we individually have made.
I started this thread because I think elephants are amazing animals and thought that bowhunters would appreciate the beauty and intelligence of these animals, whether or not they decided to hunt one. Also, my sister has had some interaction with them (she works at the National Zoo in DC), and some of her stories are really thought-provoking (and while she loves nature, she’s not a PETA-type...she wants me to hunt the deer that feed in her garden). And she knows that elephants sometimes need to be culled. Some people have interpreted this thread as an attempt to stop people from legally hunting elephants. It isn’t. It needs to be done in some circumstances. Based on your articulate and thoughtfully written posts about your hunts, I hope it is someone like you who is doing it, iamyourhuckleberry.
Me personally no , but i do agree if anybody can ... Its Will . If there is one thing i have learn't from Will's experiences , its that it is done proper and no corners cut . 100% commitment .
08-05-2008, 03:47 PM
#40
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wayne Co. Michigan
Posts: 203
RE: Elephants
A year ago Chuck Adams wrote an article in Bowhunting World about how he was invited to an African Country (Tanzania?) to see if an archery season for African Elephants was possible. In his professional opinion, and let's face it he isthe pro, that hunting Elephant with abow is borderline unethical. After two shots The PH ended up having to finish the animal. I believe he was using a one-off 100lb+ bow with special arrows and the like.
While cutting open the animal, he described how the animals 3" wide ribs basically overlapped eachother dispersing enough energy to minimize what ever energy was left in the arrow for penetration.
Personally, I have no interest in going to Africa to hunt game or otherwise and likewise have no intrest in shooting anElephant. However I am glad there are opportunities toharvest them witha gun if folks so choose to.
I will take Chuck's word for it thatthe technology is quite their yet to be harvesting an Elephant with a bow.
While cutting open the animal, he described how the animals 3" wide ribs basically overlapped eachother dispersing enough energy to minimize what ever energy was left in the arrow for penetration.
Personally, I have no interest in going to Africa to hunt game or otherwise and likewise have no intrest in shooting anElephant. However I am glad there are opportunities toharvest them witha gun if folks so choose to.
I will take Chuck's word for it thatthe technology is quite their yet to be harvesting an Elephant with a bow.